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Poll: Fairness for fitness

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Poll: If you are overwieght are you still fit for duty and a quality officer?

48977_100001671079158_216316509_n_max50

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Posted 7 months ago

 

I have told people for years now that the world of law enforcement is changing. Cops typically are not dumb. They are very well educated. Despite this portion another common perception of police is they are fat and dumb donut muncher. Well with donuts being irrelivant there are still a portion of overwieght officers out there. I know I am one of them. Not because I eat donuts, my diet does not consist of sweets and other unhealthy foods primarily, nor lack of exercise. Yet here I am 5'6" and 230 lbs.

 


I am about to interview with a department that previously had not required a PT test and now they do. I looked at the former chief, the current chief, some of the officer and ask myself "I know we should all be fit for duty. But who is the PT test for?" I understand that it is a state requirement. Thats cool. But I am wondering why is it required for new hires to pass a PT test when 65% of officers from top to bottom can not pass one? Especially management who is supposed to set a example. Now believe me I am not on a soap box preaching about how awesome I am or better than anyone. I DO believe in fit for duty. I really do. But the fact is there are many, many overweight officers serving and protecting the public in their city, county and states. These officers are generally just as good as any thin or muscular officer. I do believe if you are going to have a PT test to evaluate an officer it should be required for all officers in that department. It is not ok in todays society to have a standard for one and not the rest.


I dont personally want that to be the way things are. I will probably never have the same lean muscular body I had at 25 years old ever again. I would rather a applicant be judged on his merits and what is offered in the interview. Is that fair? I think so. There has been comentary for about two years and then it faided away, that people in LEO jobs be hired in and not weeded out based on qualifications that are not pertinant. Like for example:


No joke there I was, I had cornered a burglar who was packing a AK-47. I had my duty pistol out and when I seen that rifle trained on me he told me to drop the gun. I stated I could not do this but please dont shoot. The bad guy told me he would make a deal because he doesnt want to kill me. I eagerly agreed to hear the deal rather than be shot. The armed man stated "IF YOU CAN DO OVER 50 SIT UPS IN TWO MINUTES, I WILL LET YOU LIVE."    ..................What what???


Now in my mind the Cooper test (1.5 mi run, push ups, chin ups etc) is rediculous. It is a product of military folk chosing a pt test they are used to. The POPAT is very reasonable. However again if you can not pass it as SGT, or Chief ect why are you expecting your troops to do what you can not. That is the way it always is for quality supervisors right? First into battle and last out, only ask your troops to do what you are willing to do. Maybe that is just a paratrooper thing, IDK.


Tell me what you think? Are you heavier than tape says you should be but are an excellent officer? Do you want to set a example for newer officers based on what is reality based? Give me your opinions.


M. McCoy
Michael McCoy
“Twelve highlanders and a bagpipe make a rebellion.”

Texas02n_max600_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted 7 months ago

 

I'm the same way. I'm not the most physically active guy, but I'm trying to change it slowly. Knowing this, I've made every effort to speak to people in a manner that would talk them into deciding against running from me. Luckily, in a little over 7 years of patrol experience, I have yet to have a foot pursuit and hope that never changes! I do tend to take a little extra time making my approach and a little  extra time explaining what I'm doing to the driver. Yeah it may irritate dispatch having me out on a stop a little longer than others, but the trade off is that I can write as many citations as some of my fellow officers with fewer people taking them to traffic court. A buddy that works in a neighboring agency and I were talking one afternoon and he mentioned to me that some of the young officers on his department could run 1.5 miles in 14 minutes and were physically fit but lacked intelligence and common sense.


I'm a believer in the saying (unfortunately, I don't remember who said it!), "Talk to people in a way that when you tell them to go to hell, they look forward to the trip." 


"Niether fire nor wind, birth nor death can erase our good deeds." Buddha

Batman_max600_1__max50

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Rated +1 | Posted 7 months ago

 

So very true rypete. I am not a true physical specimen anymore myself and over 50 YOA and knee replaced and a prior heart attack I try to lose weight but it keeps finding me and coming back. Dang it. But I know that I can out work and have proven in the past that I make more arrests and bust more dope then the others. Why I work smarter and look for things that others don't. Use sugar to catch more flies instead of vinegar. Sell the ticket and like rypete said they will look forward to the trip.


Bad stuff happens to good people, handle it and overcome.
My motto for life:
Let go and let GOD,
Only HE can control everything.

Schultz3_max50

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Rate This | Posted 7 months ago

 

I don't think the physical test is only about fitness. The standards are known well in advance and are not surprisingly sprung on anybody. With discipline and dedication, anybody can pass the physical test. I think the test might weed out some people who have potential to be good officers, but if they cannot dedicate themselves to six months of exercise, hard work, and restraint, they have no business in law enforcement. I don't think the standards are to find only the most physically fit officers. Standards are to find out who really wants the job. The application, backgrounds, and interviews carry more weight in my book than the physical test, but I want to witness applicants working hard for something.

Batman_max600_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted 7 months ago

 

too true Schultzy


Bad stuff happens to good people, handle it and overcome.
My motto for life:
Let go and let GOD,
Only HE can control everything.

Wredcedar_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted 7 months ago

 

I have never had to do pushups, situps, or pull ups to catch a suspect.  On the other hand I once pursued a 16 yoa track student and kept fairly close for about 1 block, with my 22 lbs of gear there was no way I would catch him and I was in much better physical shape at that time.  With that said, to some extent, experience can  overcome overweight.  I remeber a foot pursuit from years ago (I wasn't involved, just listened to it on the police radio).  A young officer was chasing a suspect through an apartment complex, you could hear him panting onver his portable.  About 3 minutes into the chase an older overweight officer came on the air and said I have the suspect in custody, using his knowlegde and experience he had driven to where the suspect would emerge and got him  there.  Don't know if there is moral to this story, but show the importance of knowledge.

Clone_trooper_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted 7 months ago

 

Trying to be more physically fit certainly won't hurt in this line of work but it won't trump experience and clear thinking. Your attitude will carry a lot of weight in a situation. I carry a little extra weight but my attitude has led most people to decide not to take me on.


It's all in how you present yourself.

Rcsd04_max600_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted 7 months ago

 

 I could not agree more with your post. PT is one of the weirdest parts of this job. Especially when you walk up to take it and the instructor is over weight and its officers are overweight and even the chief is overweight. To me it sends mixed signals. They want you to come in all in shape and ready to kick butt! But after you complete the first couple years you can start letting go of yourself.....and its okay. Personally we all need to be shape in some form. Inmates train every day to take us out and their compitition. If you ran into one of these and got into a fight would you be ready? Can you fight long enough for backup to get to you? Can you carry a person from a wreck or burning house? I myself is just like you, but I can still run and fight and do my depts PT test and pass it. 


The one thing that is policy in my dept is that no one is aloud to get a doctors execuse to get out of doing the test. You fail once you retry, fail second time your off duty till you pass it. 3rd time you fail your fired! Everyone does the test, even the Sheriff. 


You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

Suit_max50

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+1

Rated +1 | Posted 7 months ago

 

 I agree with this post.  I'm far from the poster image of a crossfit spokesman, but I can hold my own in an intellectual and physical aspect.  Every time I've done the Florida PAT or some form of obstical course, I've alwaysed passed with time to spare; my only downfall is that 1.5 mile run.  Both me and every other recruit in my academy class (and some instructors too) were in an agreement that if you're chasing someone for a mile and a half, you should have realized something went wrong a mile ago.  Just like everyone else, I'm not trying to sound high and mighty ontop of a pedistal, but I actually know people personally that got a job I applied for maily because they could do that 1.5 in 10 minutes of less (freaks lol) and ended up failing FTO; or as one stress managment got to him in an unfortunate way but we all kind of saw that one coming because we once played a small harmless joke on him in the academy and he blew it WAY out of proportion.  Oh well, that's why I'm letting my cert lapse (I'd have to repeat the whole academy whether I let it lapse or not according to new FDLE rules), finish my degree, learn Espanol, and get in a better shape so I can score as many "political points" with them and try again later possibly out of the state of Florida.

48977_100001671079158_216316509_n_max50

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Rate This | Posted 7 months ago

 

I know there are people who think this is so important. I believe that the cooper test is based on soldiers who said this is how we proved ourselves in the military so I am holding everyone to almost the same standard. I know this is politically incorrect. But look at the simularities. It was pointless in the military after vietnam when we stopped doing 40 mile road marches and running through the jungle from over whelming VC soldiers. Im not trying to be mean I really am not. Just calling a apple an apple and not an orange.


Im happy so many people see things the way I do. I felt like some of the things I was saying would have been offensive, which was not my intent.


Shultsy04 made a comment about it being a disciplin issue and I understand that for the 22 year old new boot and even the freeks as cmm07r mentioned who run two miles in 12 minutes and have a six pack at 65 years old. That is not normal in America. Cops sit in a chair for 12 hours a day and eat fast food and are tired and go home to relax infront of a TV on a couch for 3 hours and go to bed. That is not every one but after the hundreds of cops I have known it is the average lifestyle. Many are an exception to this and exercise is important. I started my fitness plan in July to prepare for this PT test. I am 15 pounds heavier after 4-5 day a week fitness.


A little about me. In Iraq a piece of an IED hit me in the liver causing an infection that turned into a harmless tumor and then into wilsons disease. It is a liver disease that keeps the body from processing copper. This copper causes incredible weight gain. The things I have done have kept me from becoming an oompa loompa however I am too overweight and I know it. The Drs say I can slow it down but it is not stopable without surgery every few years. So I grin and bear it mitigating fat gain the best I can. However combined with Athsma (How ever that is spelled) it is hard to be motivated to exercise when I know I will have muscular straignth but look like I live in a pastry shop.


I believe I am an outstanding officer and people see my quality very fast and in fact my weight has aided in many defensive tactics moments. I have seen other overweight officers and I believe fit for duty is more important than fit for fitness posters.


 


M. McCoy
Michael McCoy
“Twelve highlanders and a bagpipe make a rebellion.”

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+1

Rated +1 | Posted 7 months ago

 

 My .02 cents: Physical fitness can protect law enforcement officers from becoming victims.  Additionally it's one of our best weapons in the arsenal of tools we have. Without it, careers are shortened or made difficult. 

Pl1_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted 7 months ago

 

 


 I know fitness is an important aspect of Police work and can make a huge difference in officer survival in many situations. I don't believe you have to look like the men on the cover of Mens Health to be fit. I know i need to loose a bunch of weight, the only person to blame is my self too much sweet tooth and fast food during the midnight tours. I'm working on improving my fitness level with cardio and will start on the weights soon. Would any body else be interested in starting a weight loss / fitness accountability forum for members where we can share our wins or losses and help encourage each other. No taunting or harassment just members looking to improve their fitness and help each other. Unfortunately fit fued is no longer availible. Please let me know if any interest and we can get this up and running.  


John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

Rcsd04_max600_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted 7 months ago

 

 I'm IN! Lets make it happen!


You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

Texas02n_max600_max50

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Rate This | Posted 7 months ago

 

trouttrooper says ...



 


 I know fitness is an important aspect of Police work and can make a huge difference in officer survival in many situations. I don't believe you have to look like the men on the cover of Mens Health to be fit. I know i need to loose a bunch of weight, the only person to blame is my self too much sweet tooth and fast food during the midnight tours. I'm working on improving my fitness level with cardio and will start on the weights soon. Would any body else be interested in starting a weight loss / fitness accountability forum for members where we can share our wins or losses and help encourage each other. No taunting or harassment just members looking to improve their fitness and help each other. Unfortunately fit fued is no longer availible. Please let me know if any interest and we can get this up and running.  


 


I'm in. Find I enjoy working out, doing cardio, a combination of both when I'mpart of a group.  


 


 



"Niether fire nor wind, birth nor death can erase our good deeds." Buddha

Ggb_max50

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+2

Rated +2 | Posted 7 months ago

 

Ok, I rarely broadbrush this this kind of stuff with all y'all but I disagree with most of the posts as they relate to fitness. While I embrace competency, common sense, effectiveness and officer safety, your health is all you've got. Period. If you don't have your health, you've lowered your quality of life and your overall effectiveness as a cop.


The test, Mgm, is fair. They are all fair. And yes, I am one of those guys who is fit enough to pass any test and push hard for fitness. Just because you can walk and talk doesn't mean you are fit enough to be a cop that the public can instantly rely on to do the job. Now wait, I see you balling up your fist and clearing leather. Let me explain.


Fitness standards are required by most states with regards to initial training. After you pass the academy, then there isn't much incentive to stay in shape other than your own initiative. Police unions are mostly to blame in keeping agencies from demanding yearly PT tests. There isn't much of a legal precedence. This strikes at the heart of the matter: Why do a lot of us NOT keep up on PT? You can fill in the blank.


The r-e-a-l reason behind PT tests are $$$$ and risk management. From a management perspective, you're not worth the risk if you look like a walking heart attack. And no one will pay money for you to lose the freight.


I know this all sounds kinda harsh-ish but it is reality. You could be smartest potential candidate around but a huge BMI is not in the best interest of the city or county where you want to work.


 


 


 


 


The Guy !
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Ggb_max50

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Rate This | Posted 7 months ago

 

Respectfully request Trout-Trooper generate a discussion and forum, ala the old Fit Feud we used to have in years past. 


The Guy !
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Honoring the Fallen

Suit_max50

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Rate This | Posted 7 months ago

 

 I'm up for the fit forum.  I need a little more motivation than the mirror.

Att179311_max50

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Rate This | Posted 7 months ago

 

Being as the Number one cause of death for police officiers is heart attacks fitness should be a priority and the city should pay for gym memberships to keep fit for both police and those crazy people that run into burning buildings


 

Rcsd04_max600_max50

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Rate This | Posted 7 months ago

 

 My department for the last couple years has operated its on "gym" inside a local mall. Its a CrossFit training program that we do. Its free for all officers in the department, plus a few local CrossFit facilities have opened theirs up for free to local PD/SO. Also Gold's Gym is free for the local dept down here. And me being 100 miles away from any of this makes it hard on me. I do a mixure of CrossFit and whatever I feel like doing to get moving. 


FYI here is a few phone apps and things to help us all out. 


Nike+ Running app- free. Tracks all your running.


MyFitnessPal- Free- app and website to track PT and Food. 


 


 


You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

Ggb_max50

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Rate This | Posted 7 months ago

 

StrykerBrig21 says ...



 My department for the last couple years has operated its on "gym" inside a local mall. Its a CrossFit training program that we do. Its free for all officers in the department, plus a few local CrossFit facilities have opened theirs up for free to local PD/SO. Also Gold's Gym is free for the local dept down here. And me being 100 miles away from any of this makes it hard on me. I do a mixure of CrossFit and whatever I feel like doing to get moving. 


FYI here is a few phone apps and things to help us all out. 


Nike+ Running app- free. Tracks all your running.


MyFitnessPal- Free- app and website to track PT and Food. 


 


+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Excellent feedback.


I did forget to mention that our Association (our police union) rented a building and installed a full gym. And I mean a FULL gym. It would make any Gold's Gym blush. It was paid for by a portion of our union dues and was only accessible to union members and other agency people who paid the dues. Each person was given their own front door key and was responsible for keeping it secure and in decent order.


 


 


 


 


 


 



The Guy !
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Honoring the Fallen

Rcsd04_max600_max50

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Rate This | Posted 7 months ago

 

 Here is some PT from my past that actually worked and will probably make you laugh. 


When I was working on getting into the Army just after 9/11 my recruiter took me 2-3 times a week to a track around 0600. 2 mile run each time plus pushups, situps, and other PT. It got to the point were an Army buddy of mine started taking me out running. So it was like 5 days of running a week. Then my recruiter pushed it up a notch on me and another recruit. Made us put on like 4-5 layers of clothes/sweats. Went to an old Army Reserve building and he PT us like we were trying out for the Rangers. Then that weekend we spent a couple hours in the recruitment office. He jacked up the heat and we were in are layers. He cranked up the music and we just danced, PT of all kinds. Then the week of Thanksgiving came, I was to enlist 2 days after. My recruiter made me eat nothing but saltines and drink water. I lost like 20 ibs in 2 months. 


Also a diet I wanted to pass along that I will probably try starting next week. Its called the "Pilot Diet" If you need the plan let me know. 


 


You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

Batman_max600_1__max50

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Rated +3 | Posted 7 months ago

 

So tops1 what are you 5'3 105# string bean. I would put any of these folks against you any day of the week. if you don't like it on here stay to heck off. At least we are out there day in and day out protecting worms like you. Brothers and Sisters of the badge I am proud of you all any shape size or weight. Keep up the good work.


Bad stuff happens to good people, handle it and overcome.
My motto for life:
Let go and let GOD,
Only HE can control everything.

Schultz3_max50

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Rate This | Posted 7 months ago

 

I'm 5'6" and about 225. I can still pass our state's fitness requirements. We switched to a dumbed down MPAT, but I can still pass the Cooper. There's more to obesity than a height/weight ratio. I am athletic and pretty stocky. I do have a few extra pounds, but according to the height/weight BMI, I should weigh 140-160. I don't have that much fat on me. I haven't weighed that low since cutting weight in wrestling several years ago. Weight should not be an issue if you can still perform your duties.

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Rate This | Posted 6 months ago

 

 I have a passion when it comes to fitness that is weightlifting and powerlifting. One of my goals being a father, is to teach and inspire the sport of powerlifting to my boys and hope that they learn and grow physically and mentally, as I have. To me, and many other officers, the gym is a place to commit to personal discipline and the continual challenge to improve yourself. Training hard makes you physically tougher, but the fact that it makes you mentally tougher is what's most important. In the law enforcement world, strength, speed, and power are what counts. 

Picture_003_max50

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Rate This | Posted 6 months ago

 

I agree with Max and the Sarge. Don't want to sound harsh but being in peak physical conditioning makes the job easier along with other personal health benefits. I'd rather outlast a suspect in a struggle than get tired and lose my life. Just my opinion.

White_shirt_max50

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Rated +2 | Posted 6 months ago

 

I am a senior and lost 20 lbs the past year and kept it off. I have minimal body fat. My exercise mainly consisted of walking. I like sweets and ice cream (Butter Brickle) and do not purchase except rare occasions. A friend of mine was short of breath a while back and the doctor contributed it to excessive working out. Come to find out he was combing his hair.

48977_100001671079158_216316509_n_max50

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Rate This | Posted 6 months ago

 

I didnt expect everyone to agree with me on here. It is easy to preach how physical training should be a part of your life when you enjoy it and believe it is of primary importance. The topic was not about is it ok for me to be fat. The topic is should entry level officer be expected to meet a riquirement that no one else in the department has to meet.


To the person who felt they had the duty to private message me Annonymously and bad mouth me and make insults. You should be ashamed of yourself. And I it does no good to be annonymous if you are writing the same statements berbatum, on this post. I was fit my entire life until my injury. But this is not about me.


I think integrity, respect, honor and other quallities are considerably more important that being a gym rat. You should look inside and ask yourself how much integrity you have if you have to PM and secretly insult someone. Especially another officer who despite not looking like a spartan still has always got the job done. I may be a "Heart attack waiting to happen" But the life I live before that happens is lived well.


For everyone else, I appriciate the other officers who can open up and speak about this hard to live with topic. I do believe you should be fit for duty and able to perform your job well. I do my best every day. I am sure you do too. Like any other being in nature we must adjust how we do things to overcome. Lets not let prejudice over "fat people" stop you from treating them like professionals or like human beings who deserve to be treated propperly.


M. McCoy
Michael McCoy
“Twelve highlanders and a bagpipe make a rebellion.”