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Police Pursuit vs not?

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Posted over 1 year ago

 

Pursuit may have prevented this........or not?


ORLANDO --   One person is dead after Orlando police said a man fired shots at an officer and then crashed his vehicle into another car killing the driver of the car. 


It happened around 4 a.m. Thursday on West Colonial Drive at Powers Drive.  Orlando police said around 3:40 a.m., officers tried to stop a vehicle for a traffic violation but the driver did not stop and officers did not pursue the car.  A few minutes later police said the car was spotted and the driver, later identified as 23-year-old Ramroop Gangapersad, refused to stop and officers again did not pursue the vehicle. 


Investigators said the car was spotted again at approximately 3:48 am in the area of Powers Drive and West Colonial Drive and as the officer attempted to get behind the car, Gangapersad opened fire on the officer.  Police said the officer had not yet turned on his lights and siren when the shots were fired. 


The vehicle then proceeded through the intersection of West Colonial Drive at Powers Drive and crashed into another car in the intersection causing that car to hit a pole.  The driver of that car, 25-year-old Robert Hunter, was ejected from the vehicle and pronounced dead at the scene.  A passenger in the car, 26-year-old Wilgue Pierre of Orlando, was transported to Orlando Regional Medical Center in serious condition.  Orlando police said Gangapersad sustained non-life-threatening injuries and is in custody and will be charged with Attempted Murder of a Law Enforcement Officer. 


The Orlando Police Officer was not injured and was not involved in the traffic crash. 


The Florida Highway Patrol is investigating the traffic crash.  West Colonial Drive was closed for several hours while police investigated.

20140808_191221_max50

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Rated +2 | Posted over 1 year ago

 

There is no way to say if a pursuit would have prevented this grim situation from happening. A pursuit for a simple traffic violation could have posed great risk to the public, outweighing the benefits of doing so. It is not uncommon for the police to call off a pursuit of a traffic violator if the pursuit poses great risk to the public. They might try to gather information on who the subject is and obtain an arrest warrant. The moment Mr. Gangapersdad fired on the officer, the suspect had committed a felony, making a pursuit a viable option to try and secure an arrest.


Broncos Nation

1979_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted over 1 year ago

 

As Gunns states, there is just no way of knowing. This idiot for whatever reason was trying to get Officers to chase him. Maybe he wanted to engage Officers in a fire-fight? Only the suspect knows for sure and even then, he may not know what he was thinking if he was on drugs. The fact is, he violated the traffic laws and eventually shot at the Police which makes him guilty of Attempted Murder of a LEO and because he was in the commission of a crime when he had his accident that killed someone else, he is also guilty of Murder, possibly first degree!


You CANNOT blame the Police for what happened in this case. Everything they did they did for reasons of safety towards the public. W. Colonial Dr. if full of red lights and traffic, even at that time of night and a chase down that street in either direction would be very dangerous, for all involved and the general public.

Somegiveall_max160_max160_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

I AM CURIOUS THAT HIS POSTER HAS BEEN A MEMBER OF PL SINCE OCT 2008 AND THIS IS HIS FIRST POST ON A DISCUSSION? no intro or anything.

Wredcedar_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted over 1 year ago

 

Many agencies (mine included) have a no pursuit on traffic infractions policy, which is a good policy IMO.  However if people flee, there is usually more that  the traffic infraction to cause them to flee.  This seems to be the case here in the OP's initial post.

Eagle_and_flag_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

GringoLEO says ...



Pursuit may have prevented this........or not?


ORLANDO --   One person is dead after Orlando police said a man fired shots at an officer and then crashed his vehicle into another car killing the driver of the car.  It happened around 4 a.m. Thursday on West Colonial Drive at Powers Drive.  Orlando police said around 3:40 a.m., officers tried to stop a vehicle for a traffic violation but the driver did not stop and officers did not pursue the car.  A few minutes later police said the car was spotted and the driver, later identified as 23-year-old Ramroop Gangapersad, refused to stop and officers again did not pursue the vehicle.  Investigators said the car was spotted again at approximately 3:48 am in the area of Powers Drive and West Colonial Drive and as the officer attempted to get behind the car, Gangapersad opened fire on the officer.  Police said the officer had not yet turned on his lights and siren when the shots were fired.  The vehicle then proceeded through the intersection of West Colonial Drive at Powers Drive and crashed into another car in the intersection causing that car to hit a pole.  The driver of that car, 25-year-old Robert Hunter, was ejected from the vehicle and pronounced dead at the scene.  A passenger in the car, 26-year-old Wilgue Pierre of Orlando, was transported to Orlando Regional Medical Center in serious condition.  Orlando police said Gangapersad sustained non-life-threatening injuries and is in custody and will be charged with Attempted Murder of a Law Enforcement Officer.  The Orlando Police Officer was not injured and was not involved in the traffic crash.  The Florida Highway Patrol is investigating the traffic crash.  West Colonial Drive was closed for several hours while police investigated.



As previously stated, no way of knowing for sure. It may have ended sooner with a different victim. Just no way of knowing.


In GOD We Trust (All others get searched, then checked through NCIC)

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Somegiveall_max160_max160_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

great answer my man.  but geez, another texan??

New_unit_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted over 1 year ago

 

 To pursue or not to pursue. This is a question like so many in law enforcement that has no right or wrong answer, at least until the dust has settled, all the information gathered that can be gathered and the lawyers and courts have mulled over and over every dotted I and crossed T.


Patrol officers are a reaction to the action they observe before them, and until the "powers that be" hold the person that committed the act totally responsible for the act and any and ALL reactions that take place because of what he decided to put in motion we search for a black and white answer.


The politically correct or safe answer at this point is don't chase, but: you try to stop a vehicle for a traffic violation (let us say 10 mph over the speed limit) he "runs" and there is no pursuit. Two hours later an armed robbery broadcast and one of the clerks fatally shot. Description  right down to the plate number and driver match your traffic violator. When caught it is determined he is the same guy and he "ran" because the gun and other items to be used in the robbery were in the car, and he had an outstanding warrant. License plate did not come back to him because he borrowed the car.


Do you think the media hounds are not going to make the robbery the "fault" of the officer that did not pursue or the department whose policy was followed? How about the lawyers for the victim's family? It really boils down to money and "deep pockets" and how can we get some .   Don't know how that lst line pasted it's self there.          

Just_passin__thru_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted over 1 year ago

 

 There is a great point to this topic. And it seems to be a cornerstone in every reply.


The fact that there is a discussion and a questions about this incident states the obvious: Pursuits are being retooled, re-policied and revisited.


The 'chase'em til the wheels fall off' thinking is almost into the complete national sunset. Cops are working smarter, more patiently and clearly using technology to the fullest.


Pursuing someone now has become the unilateral conversation behind closed doors.


And it looks like we are evolving smart about it. No need to needlessly bring potential harm to 'innocent' civilians and no need to destroy property for the sake of the 'collar'.


I always promoted this idea: I have entire career to catch a bad guy. If I don't get him today, I will get him tomorrow. Disclaimer: Unless there is an articulable exigent circumstance that 'requires' me to pursue, I will find another way.


By way of example: Foot pursuits used to be one guy foot chasing another guy. Over a period of years, we discovered this was very dangerous. Since then, establishing a perimeter and squeezing in and systematically apprehending a suspect has become safer and more conclusive.


See what I mean?


The Guy !
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Rated +1 | Posted over 1 year ago

 

Looks as though cruiser officer didn't pursue the first two times and didn't get a chance to the third time.I recall as a new kid on the street I thought it was fantastic.Many things occured to cause me to mature.As the years went by our dept. and others discouraged such thought due to just such an incident.We also had to file an elongated ,time consuming, report on pursuits and we know how much we love to do reports.The radio catches just as many bad guys in a pursuit as the cruiser itself.If you can't apprehend him/her the next district will.Just a matter of common sense which is so essential in law enforcement.

Silver_warrior_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted over 1 year ago

 

Obviously different areas of the country have wildly differing concerns to "worry" about.  Not only does one have to worry about the usual things like 1)  What is the offender being stopped for?  2)  What is the current traffic conditions?  3)  What are the current weather conditions?  But there are also a myriad of the other factors to consider, like. . . . .  1)  Knowing your area enough to know if you will be passing by a populated area (like a school or parade).  2)  How many people are in the vehicle?  3)  Are those people in the vehicle. . . .children?  4)  What are the consequences of NOT stopping the vehicle?  Among other issues to consider.


Another issue that we faced working in a rural area (between Detroit and Flint) was how many officers were available to "box in" the violator?  Most of the areas in the United States are not like Los Angeles and other big cities that have constant coverage by helicopters.  If there is a helicopter, can it keep an eye on the vehicle until it comes to a stop somewhere so officers can converge without the pursuit and dangers that come with it?


Pursuits will always be dangerous as stated.  HOWEVER. . . . .if there is a blanket "No Pursuit" policy, then I believe that you will just encourage the running from the officer as they know there will be no consequences. . . .especially with the dark tints and some other things that can be done to "blend in" and keep the "positive" identification of the violator from being determined.


Finally. . . . . .as stated before, pursuits are a reactionary answer to what the "other guy" has chose to do.  Until the courts finally decide to hold the police harmless (unless officers just went out of their way to be stupid) on anything bad that happens in a pursuit, then this conversation will continue.  Unfortunately, because the police, and more to the point. . . .the government, have the deep pockets, then the lawsuits will continue to come about against the police and those in positions of authority over the road officer will continue to hold the microscope on their every actions.  Also, the "government" insurance company lawyers will force the police to pay a smaller "settlements" than going to court to because going to court is always a roll of the dice and they don't want to take the chance of the BIG HIT!  This only encourages the public to want to play the "lottery" of the settlement.


I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

John Bernard Books, from "The Shootist"

Wredcedar_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted over 1 year ago

 

Many years ago it ws Jacksonville, FL I believe that tried a no pursuit policy.  Within 6 months they reinstated a pursuit policy as virtually no one would stop for them. 

Just_passin__thru_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

 bump


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