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Search and Seizure Laws

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Police_badge_max50

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Posted over 6 years ago

 

Ok guys and gals in blue I need your help. I work in a very high drug area and im always looking for ways to get into peoples cars. Im also wondering about consensual encounter. I hear so many things on traffic stops. some say you have to give them there id back before you can ask to search their car? then I read the new Terry stop law that now includes vehicles. I would love to hear any input . Thanks If you want to email me other then post please do.

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

what new law are you talking about when it comes to searching vehicles? and dont hate the ho hate the game.

Swat11_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

You can usually find some kind of website that will keep you up to date on the current case law. I am signed up for one in New Jersey that will send me an e-mail when a new case is decided. It is very helpful. Try finding something like that in your state.

Th_plugman1_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

It depends what state you're in. In colorado, you have to give the driver back thier DL and let them know they are free to leave. At that point you can ask if you can search their vehicle. You can not request passenger identification unless you feel the passenger is involved in a crime or investigation. My advise is looking for idicators of drugs. There are many. If you have a chance go to a drug interdiction course they will show you all the idicators that will give you the probable cause to search without the owners concent. On consensual encouters I always make them feel like they don't have to stay if they don't want to, but they usually do, so I continue with the officer safety of can I pat you down for my safety since we are just talking. They usually don't mind then go from there. Like I said it depends on your state laws.

Police-19_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

If you have any doughts they have dope in the car call for a K-9 to walk the outside. You dont need their permission on that and if the dog hits their is your PC to enter the vehicle. As long as you had a legal traffic with PC to be there you will be A OK, I cant forget to mention the always wonderful plainview. I am not sure about where you are but in Tx we must do a inventory of the vehicle when they are arrested use your imagination on that one. I may have not been helpful but I tired take care and good luck out there stay safe.


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Surf_2014_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

You don't have to give ID back to search. You can ask anytime to search. "Ok if I search your car..?" is good. Not, "Do you mind if I search your car...?" There isn't a right answer for that one. A good barrister will rip that one apart. "My client said, 'No.', which meant he didn't want you to search." or "My client said, "Yes.", which meant he did mind and didn't want his car searched." Searching incident to an arrest or an inventory search prior to towing are the standards. Also, just yakking with these birds and a little finesse within scope is priceless.

Odin, you're a dope guy. Suggestions? Maybe a pm if is not for general consumption....


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Badge_embossed_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

"You can not request passenger identification unless you feel the passenger is involved in a crime or investigation."

Do you mean you cannot force them to provide ID? It would seem very restrictive that you could not even ask them.

In MI, I would not have to give the ID back, but if the search was later challenged then whether or not I gave him his ID back would be considered as part of the totality of the circumstances surrounding whether or not that person gave consent. I have done many consent searches in my career so far, and I can't ever remember giving someone back their ID before I did it.

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

you can check the car to see if anything is wrong but not the passenger? glad i dont live in that state. what about officer safety? i have never had to let a bad guy go or beat me in court for getting his id for officerr safety .

Sugarbear_and_mom_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

You are dealing with two separate issues so you need to make sure you respond to them separately. When you stop them for a Vehicle and Traffic Violation, you need to do the paperwork and hand it back to them, including their summons. Then it's important that they know they're free to go. At this point you want to start the interdiction. So you ask them if there's anything illegal in the car such as guns or drugs. This has to be consensual. They usually give their consent to search the vehicle.
there's a great book available through the Calibre Press called "Tactics for Criminal Patrol" that addresses this question. Good Luck!

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

all eyes on us... remember a thug lurks among us. next thing you know you guys will be giving away the secret code for get out of jail and the secret handshake!!

Th_plugman1_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

Deputyjones, Colorado is a very liberal state and yes it sucks.

Police_badge_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

ODIN said:

what new law are you talking about when it comes to searching vehicles? and dont hate the ho hate the game.

You can see down at the bottom where it was later added to the terry stop.. Thanks for all the in put

Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), was a decision by the United States Supreme Court which held that the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures was not violated when a police officer stopped a suspect on the street and searched him without probable cause to arrest.

The Court held that police may briefly detain a person if they have a reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime. Because of the important interest in protecting the safety of police officers, police may perform a quick surface search of the person's outer clothing for weapons if they have reasonable suspicion that the person stopped is armed. This reasonable suspicion must be based on “specific and articulable facts” and not merely upon an officer's hunch. This permitted police action has subsequently been referred to in short as a “stop and frisk”, or simply a “Terry stop”. The Terry standard was later extended to temporary detentions of persons in vehicles, known as traffic stops.

The rationale behind the Supreme Court decision revolves around the understanding that, as the opinion notes, “the exclusionary rule has its limitations”. The meaning of the rule is to protect persons from unreasonable searches and seizures aimed at gathering evidence, not searches and seizures for other purposes (like prevention of crime or personal protection of police officers).

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

do you consider a law handed down in 1968 as new?or is there a new admin to the standing law.

Police_badge_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

ODIN said:

do you consider a law handed down in 1968 as new?or is there a new admin to the standing law.

I was never taught the added part about vehicle stops. So I assumed it was new or maybe I just had poor Instructors when they taught us about the terry stop.

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

how long have you been a cop. how long have you been cert and are you full time?

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

i noticed that you changed you're nic showcause, are you a fed cop? are you a police officer anywhere?

Shedevil2_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

what happened hohater.............."bitch didn't have yo money ?"..................i.e. showcause


...don't play with me , i'll keep you way up after your bedtime.....

Police_badge_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

ODIN said:

how long have you been a cop. how long have you been cert and are you full time?

Hey Odin, Yes I am a police officer Ive been out for about a 1.5 years. I just had a simple question and it seems like you have an issue with it. I was just looking for advice on the topic. I work In a large city where drugs are an issue so I was trying to find out about the topic because everyone has a differnt way of getting in to cars. I now see after some reserch that it depends on the court and the judge. Here in Richmond you have to give them there ID back before you ask for consent. I hope that answers your question about my qauls. I spent time in a drug interdiction course thats were the confusion came from. Oh and im not very good with nicknames and yes I hate Ho's I deal with them on a nightly basis. But i thought it may offend someone. so I changed it.

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

what do you hate about hos, some of my best friends have been hos, male and female.

Police_badge_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

because the one's that i deal with are all crack heads and want to lie about evrything. Yes im used to getting lied to but to think guys are picking up these nasty women and then going home to there wife. I know ts not my life but still.

Photo_user_blank_big

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

WHAT??????? ODIN smelled out another one. Navy, is that you? Drug interdiction course? I "spent time" in a basic homicide investigation course, but that doesn't make me a homicide detective. Just in case we are wrong, ShowCause, search and seizure rules are set by the Supreme Court, and are not up for interpretation. Have you seen your brother Ron lately, Mo?

Police_badge_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

go ahead talk shit Come to a Richmond court and try it IT wont fly. Not once did I say i was a drug expert did I? You know its sad I tried to get some help on what other people have tried and this is what happens.

1979_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

You will find out that these 'ladies of the evening' can be your best source of info when it comes to who, what, and where drugs are and other crimes. Many of them are damn smart so be aware of that. Terry vs Ohio is old law and there have been many changes and challenges so check your state laws on search and seizure. As I have been out of it for a while I would not presume to be up to date but we could always pat down ANYONE for Officer safety. We could also request ID from everyone, have them get out of the car and of course plain view doctrine, requesting to look in the vehicle, "we even had a form for them to sign giving consent, and of course you can inventory a vehicle for his benefit when he is arrested. Push come to shove, if there is no way I can find to get into a vehicle that I know in my heart has something it it, and that has only happened once in many, many years, I search it anyway knowing that while the charges will be tossed out I at least have the drugs and guns and he don't

Photo_user_blank_big

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

If you write police reports like you write your posts, I can see the problem. Maybe the "saw dope, arrested same" is the problem. Drugs are an issue everywhere, bro, not just in Richmond. Find a way around your prosecutors failures. If this stuff was easy, everybody could do it. Don't get your panties in a bunch, Show.

Police_badge_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

Thank you, We do have a form they can sign, The question that I started with was when is it consent? Before I started getting badgered by odin and jack. In Our courts if we dont give them there ID back it is never consent because they are not free to leave. Anyway thanks for you answer.

Police_badge_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

Jack thats why I got on here and asked for some help to see what worked for others. Thats all I was looking for not a bunch of bitching about someones skills not all of us are 20 year vets and we look to people with the time in for help. If your not willing to help just keep you mouth shut and dont say anything. I have been on the street for about 1.5 years and have made over 50 dope arrest. I was just looking to see what worked for others!

Photo_user_blank_big

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

50 whole arrests? Man, that IS dope infested. Do your own homework, son. And, to rebut your statement, I type with my mouth closed, but thanks for asking. Don't start, you're not up to it. It does hurt that you didn't get the Ron and Mo joke. I have been giving you crap because this is an open forum and we are not going to give the bad guys the same info we give the good guys.

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

Jack60 said:

WHAT??????? ODIN smelled out another one. Navy, is that you? Drug interdiction course? I "spent time" in a basic homicide investigation course, but that doesn't make me a homicide detective. Just in case we are wrong, ShowCause, search and seizure rules are set by the Supreme Court, and are not up for interpretation. Have you seen your brother Ron lately, Mo?

what do you think now jack?

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

TammyJo said:

You are dealing with two separate issues so you need to make sure you respond to them separately. When you stop them for a Vehicle and Traffic Violation, you need to do the paperwork and hand it back to them, including their summons. Then it's important that they know they're free to go. At this point you want to start the interdiction. So you ask them if there's anything illegal in the car such as guns or drugs. This has to be consensual. They usually give their consent to search the vehicle.
there's a great book available through the Calibre Press called "Tactics for Criminal Patrol" that addresses this question. Good Luck!

I agree that the Calibre Press series is a good reference, but keep in mind that the information is approximately 20 years old. There's been alot of case law introduced since the mid 80's.

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Rate This | Posted over 6 years ago

 

Gentlemen, I would like to issue a reminder to keep it friendly. This thread started off on the right foot and feel it's a good topic for discussion, however if it keeps degrading into insults and name calling, I'll launch it into orbit.

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