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Poll: EXECUTIVE ACTION AS MARKETING TOOL FOR SECOND AMENDMENT REFORM??? GASP!!!

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Poll: HOWZABOUT A GENERAL BOYCOTT ON GUN CONTROL POLLS?

Mr-natural_1__max50

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Yes, I am quite uncouth, Marly Van Buren. I shall endeavour to use the correct fork next time.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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For a second there I thought, "What has mz66 got against President Van Buren for crying out loud??!" BWAHAHA!!! 


 


  O THOU UNCOUTH!




 


 


mz66 says ...



Yes, I am quite uncouth, Marly Van Buren. I shall endeavour to use the correct fork next time.


Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Let you tell it, Cedardale.  In terms of the Big Picture, admin-to-admin, things that make us go hmmmm...


"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."


 


Cedardale says ...



2nd amendment?,  maybe we should be more concerned about the 10th amendment as well.


Female_bodysurfer_max50

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And then there's...


 



 


 


SGT405 says ...



1/25/2013


This President has used more executive orders than Clinton,Bush1 and Bush2 combined according to the stats I read.  That is nothing more than circumventing our system of government.


An administration that wants to ban all guns yet illegally sends Mexico hundreds in operation Fast&Furious.


The republicans cry that our individual rights are being eroded yet they under Bush2 gave us the Patriot act which eroded more civil liberties than at any time in U.S. history.


The argument that the 2nd amendment is a states militia/guard right and not an individual one is laughable. The entire Constitution and the Bill of Rights are solely INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS granted by our creator. It grants the branches of government authority FROM US! If the gun control advocates argument is to hold water then everywhere in the constitution the word PEOPLE must be replaced with the word STATE. This would in effect make the Constitution worthless.


Female_bodysurfer_max50

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AND NOW FOR A COMMERCIAL BREAK!!


Steve_mcqueen_max50

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 All Politics aside (YA RIGHT) , it's obvious to Stevy Wonder the difference of the Patriot Act in the hands of someone trying to protect the United States during a time of crises and the Present Administrations usage of it's powers to put the squeeze on the Constitutionality of the separation of Powers in the three branches. No doubt in my mind that pretty much all Politicians once elected forget about the promises they made to get elected , "ALL BECAUSE OF THE GOOD OLD BOY NETWORK IN WASHINGTON". Any elected official with a heart of gold gets it's introduction to the "REAL WORLD OF POLITICS" with the Freshman introduction speeches , "EITHER DO AS YOU ARE TOLD OR YOU WILL BE BANISHED TO SOME COMMITTEE THAT STUDIES BED BUGS LONGEVITY IN A MATTRESS" ! The initial seat holders in Washington have the power to do as they please be they Republican or Democrat , they are all part of the same "CORRUPT ELEMENT LOOKING OUT FOR THEMSELVES ONLY AS A PRIMARY ON GOING FILIBUSTER TO GET RE-ELECTED". They do only what they have to do "BECAUSE OF PUBLIC PRESSURE" and right now the pressure is from the "LAZY UNEMPLOYED WHO WANT A FREE PAY CHECK , FOOD STAMPS , A NO JOB LOAN FOR A HOUSE" , I could right a novel on the Lefty Free Loading Socialist Society that refuses to earn a living but you guys and girls already know that because the present day working Officers are having to do more with less and the Left Wing is now trying to remove the only "BACK UP YOU HAVE IN THE ARMED AMERICAN CITIZEN" that is a Law Abiding creature by nature not to mention trusting in Big Brother to keep the Law and Order. The Left Socialist side of Politics is presently on display in almost every facet of our lives right now . The only hindrance to a total socialist dictator ship is "THE SECOND AMENDMENT". In small incremental ways , the Left has eroded (with the help and guidance of the ACLU and others) to remove certain Polymers that Hold This Country to a Much Higher Standard then anyone else. Our Patriotism to our God (regardless of Religion) , our Flag , and our Founding Fathers far reaching visions of Human Greed were foreseen by the UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION that they so aptly conceived for our Republic to outlast any and all other forms of Government. It's not perfect because of GREED but it is workable because the "WE THE PEOPLE" concept keeps it viable against the Power Hungry Politicians. If I haven't made my point by now , I guess I never will because "YOU THE WORKING CENTURIONS" are dealing in it's pit falls for the past four years and for the next four years to come. It's a matter of survival and with Gods guidance the right people in the right places will come forward to end the power grabs presently in progress. "MUCH LIKE TODAYS DECISION THAT THE PRESIDENT OVER REACHED AND BROKE THE LAW IN MAKING APPOINTMENTS WHILE CONGRESS WAS IN SESSION" , that was stated by the appeals court of three federal Judges stating in the decision that technicalities do matter when it comes to Law and regardless of the hundreds of decisions made by the Illegal Appointments , they will all be reversed on an individual basis. Lies don't get it when it comes to the Court on a fact finding mission . Now if they will only press Hillary after they get some whistle blowers from the inside to pony up "WHO REFUSED THE MILITARY INTERVENTION TO SAVE OUR FOUR AMERICAN DIPLOMATS??????????????????????


Glory earned on the field of battle , can never be taken away , you take it with you to the grave. Quote by General George Armstrong Custer

Th_policeavatar_2__max50

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mz66 says ...



SGT405 says ...



1/25/2013


This President has used more executive orders than Clinton,Bush1 and Bush2 combined according to the stats I read.  That is nothing more than circumventing our system of government.



Please cite your source. This is verifiably wrong according to this page here:


http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/disposition.html


Just going by the EO #s, some estimates can be had:


 


143 Obama (so far)


290 Bush 2


363 Clinton


165 Bush 1


380 Reagan


 


WOW! You must have it in for me?


I did put it  in writing the wrong way. Let me rephrase it please. According to the Federal Register: President Obama has used more EOs in 4 years than President George W. Bush or President William Clinton did in 8 years.


Presidernt Obama: 4years-13,632 EOs


President G.W.Bush: 8 years-13,488 EOs


President W.Clinton: 8years-13,197 EOs


Again, this according to the Federal Register.


 


 



""Life is a storm.. You will bask in the sunlight one moment, be shattered on the rocks the next. What makes you a man is what you do when that storm comes"
Alexander Dumas-The Count of Monte Christo

Th_policeavatar_2__max50

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mz66 says ...



It looks like snopes has done a write-up on that hoax, Al:


http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/executiveorders.asp


...


...


You know...it's really disheartening to see people I know normally do a little fact checking just roll over and spew the first chain letter that lands in their email. This whole topic has made normally sensible people lose all perspective. Very depressing. :(


Under ordinary circumstances, Al, I would've PM'ed you advising this--but the way people in general have been going full steam ahead with complete fantasy in order to advance their own paranoid agenda has really tweaked me off. I apologize that you had to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. For you, I will assume that this was an honest mistake.


 


Thanks for being passive/aggressive!  I guess asking me was out of the question?


With this I am out of this. So don't bother. I will not even check this thread anymore.



""Life is a storm.. You will bask in the sunlight one moment, be shattered on the rocks the next. What makes you a man is what you do when that storm comes"
Alexander Dumas-The Count of Monte Christo

Mr-natural_1__max50

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Those are not executive order counts, Al--those are the file numbers associated with the executive orders.. In other words, the 13632 number you quoted is not a total, but a serial number of sorts. Sigh. 


And no, I don't have it out for you. I also have a plumbing emergency here, so I can't give this the attention it deserves.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

Th_policeavatar_2__max50

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mz66 says ...



Those are not executive order counts, Al--those are the file numbers associated with the executive orders.. In other words, the 13632 number you quoted is not a total, but a serial number of sorts. Sigh. 


And no, I don't have it out for you. I also have a plumbing emergency here, so I can't give this the attention it deserves.



 


 


Allright. I misunderstood the table in the F.R.  . I made a mistake. I guess thats a foreign concept to you. You have insulted me and my intelligence  now in 3 posts.  In the future, if your ego will allow, take any problem you have with me in private. I would never say what you did in public. How sad.


""Life is a storm.. You will bask in the sunlight one moment, be shattered on the rocks the next. What makes you a man is what you do when that storm comes"
Alexander Dumas-The Count of Monte Christo

2007-2008_114_max600_max50

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I hate politics...


Have ASP will travel.

Justice is the one thing you should always find, you gotta saddle up your boys you gotta draw a hard line.

When the gun smoke settles we'll sing a victory tune and we'll all meet back at the local saloon.

And we'll raise up our glasses against evil forces singing whiskey for my men beer for my horses.

Thinker_max50

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It's the weekend!


Instead of fact checking one another and worrying about how many EO's each pres has made, let's all go get a beer from the fridge and toast one another for surviving another week and plan to toast one another next weekend for surviving next week...


Having the proper Attitude and Mental Preparation combined with proper Training gives you the tools needed to Think, Act, and Be Safe...

Bluejersey_max50

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darsavmo says ...



It's the weekend!


Instead of fact checking one another and worrying about how many EO's each pres has made, let's all go get a beer from the fridge and toast one another for surviving another week and plan to toast one another next weekend for surviving next week...




WE CAN HAS BEER? 


Sounds like an EO we ALL would agree on! 



 


 



What doesn't kill me had better start running!

Mr-natural_1__max50

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I do sometimes lose my composure and I have done so much more often lately since this whole stinkin' debate started a few weeks ago. I've actually alienated people with whom I had been friends for decades over this stupid crap recently--color you not surprised, right? Yes, cry you a river for me, right? Go ahead--I can take it.


I don't see how I insulted your intelligence in 3 posts. I did cross the line with the chain letter quip and I do sincerely apologize for that.


Like I said, Al--you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. My frustration with the huge amount of dis- AND mis-information being propagated has reached epic proportions and you just happened to light a spark under some very dry kindling. I PM people all the time when a correction is called for. Occasionally I feel it would be a more economical use of my time to post a correction publicly. This was one of those times. Nonetheless, I wish I had found the wisdom to do it more tactfully, but I was too angry.


Although I stand by my analysis in general, I am ashamed of my outburst and very sorry you were at the receiving end.


P.S.  I'm sure a lot of people here assume I'm anti-2nd amendment. You are wrong. Perhaps this is why I'm so fracked up about this--I am constantly in the middle, pointing out disingenuous soundbites, hypocrisies, etcetera on both sides. Unfortunately, both sides have their hands clamped over their ears going "LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" 


 




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Sgt405 your cogent line of debate always delights me!  Bump darsavmo!  Make that a pitcher.  Along with a BIG slab of roast -


 


MARLYB'S  BEEF


I withdrew from Second Amendment debates in other threads because I saw them wrested of-topic into a nasty accusatory facts-check chest-beater's personal soap box. 


So...I opened my own. This topic is about propaganda. It's concerned with how Executive Action becomes a convenience of Oval Office propaganda.  It explores how Executive Action might be used to drive public discourse on gun control.  I criticize frivolous, 'public relatioins' use of Executive Order.


I make a strong bid for ordinary deliberations of goverment.  I caution against POTUS abusing Executive Order to spin public sentiment.  I indict President Obama on the gun control issue, AND sucessive admins for a pattern of dangerous precedent especially where Constitutional guarantees are permanently compromised. 


A compromised Guarantee is NOT a Guarantee!


I then broadened the topic.  I exampled how the 'medium is the message' works to skew messages - often creating counter-messages.  I show some hidden messages contained in pro-Second Amendment propaganda. 


Members here pitched in with their thoughts on the debate itself.  Fine.  I'm flexible. With respect to Executive Order infringing Constitutional guarantees, members want to exonerate the Bush administration and castigate the Obama administration .  Fine.  I let members vent a little partisan bile.  Doesn't mean I agree with  partisan scape-goating.  In fact, it muddies the waters. 


Then WHAM-O my topic is commandeered into another boring, intrusive, asinine 'my facts-finding caliber is bigger than your facts-finding caliber.'  The opening salvo is a blast of pot shots meant to shame member(s), skew the topic, then bury it altogether. 


I DON'T LIKE THE TACTIC.  KNOCK IT OFF!


Address the topic at hand.  Identify, analyze, critique, applaud or bronx cheer whatever piece of propaganda speaks to you or drives you nuts.  I don't care. 


But don't wade in to commandeer this thread into a personal soap box.   Don't lob in a molotov cocktail of snarky, self-satisfied remarks meant to belittle the integrity/intelligence of members here in order to degrade the topic.


If Second Amendment issues give you the red arsche, don't bury my topic.  Grow some and go open a thread of your own.


 


 


 


 

Mr-natural_1__max50

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Utter poppycock. Fact checking is needed...I'm tired of the constant stream of mis-and-dis-information. My indiscretion was with Sgt405, not you. You have a nice day.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Nobody made the argument facts-checking is not needed.  But when a pissing contest becomes the goal of a facts-checker,  then it is doing something else.  That's my beef. 


Back on topic.


OK. Now here's another sample.  Agrarian roots.  Has a revolutionista appeal.  A quote from a guy with a Japanese surname.  A vanquished Axis Power country surname.  Borders, war history, USA's wide open spaces...Things that make you go hmmm....


Wait...think I will google Yamamoto.  Will it make a diff?


A visit to factcheck at http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/misquoting-yamamoto/.   There we find an expert's claim that General Yamamoto never said the quote shown in the poster below. 


What Factcheck does NOT do is suggest any statement of Yamamoto's reflecting the sentiment.   So...we are left to wonder just what Yamamoto's assessment might have been.  Properly translated.


At the same time, we have NO illusions that propaganda needs to tell the truth, do we?  Propaganda has only to get an idea across. 


Executive order gets across the idea that ordinary deliberation cannot serve.  Is that an unwanted message or an intended one?  Either way, the point is made.  Sometimes for decades. Some people are made nervous by that approach.  I know I am.


 


Female_bodysurfer_max50

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The bid for Fire with Fire.  A call to combat In Cold Blood


Or...don't bring an accusing finger to a massacre?    That's a whole lotta smoke in the background.  And... Psychos Plural. 


Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Here's a more hard-hiting and direct version of the previous. Maybe it promotes a silly or a dangerous idea.  You tell me.


This time the female subject is set into a purely nationalistic/religious statement on the Second Amendment's guarantee. 


Young Christian female.  On a mission.  Brandishing. 


Does the reference to HELLO KITTY design help or hurt the pro-Second Amendment message?


 


Female_bodysurfer_max50

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This gun control poster uses humor to push the envelope on the definition of 'militia' and the uninfringed 'right to keep and bear.'


 


Thinker_max50

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 Here's a Fact Check that is a Fact:


It's still the weekend and I'm enjoying my beer...


Having the proper Attitude and Mental Preparation combined with proper Training gives you the tools needed to Think, Act, and Be Safe...

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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(Pours a Sapporo) Skol, darsavmo!


Going further, this gun control poster wants you to dismiss altogether the notion of a maverick State.


It relegates 'The People' (self-governed elect) to 'The Populace' (population) to infer Second Amendment guarantee covers state militias only.  Going further, it suggests that any role of 'The People' is part of a twisted notion of anarchy and chaos.


Check out the use of diminishing type - something like a western frontier poster - in red.



 

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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The general retort.  Covers a lot of territory. 


For some reason, I just like it.  On my t-shirt.


Female_bodysurfer_max50

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An ugly one that recruits Ronald Reagan as Poster POTUS for Gun Control.  The textwall color recalls a Western Union telegraph, police crime scene tape, AND the Don't Tread On Me banner.


That's quite a smorgasbord.   


President Reagan looks irritated.  Is he being squeezed??


Share if you agree. 


 


Female_bodysurfer_max50

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This SAS (not SOS) Easter Seal look is rather dainty.


Lovely!  That reminds me.  Maybe Grandma could use a nicer shotgun for her birthday?   


Female_bodysurfer_max50

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BUMP

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---http://asmdss.com/page/news.html/_/articles/letter-from-special-forces-to-america-2nd-amendment.html----


A letter from many current and former Special Forces members

Mr-natural_1__max50

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What I think when people claim Obama's coming to take away their guns:





Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”