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Poll: America and guns in the hands who should not have them!

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Poll: Are you willing to take a stand and fix this problem !

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mz66 says ...



As I said, this did spur a decent discussion and I don't want to get it off that track by yammering about my obsession over the construction of the questions. If you want me to, I will try to do it in PM.


Please proceed with the meat of the discussion.



Please do send me a PM when you can, thanks!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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snhadley says ...



mz66 says ...



As I said, this did spur a decent discussion and I don't want to get it off that track by yammering about my obsession over the construction of the questions. If you want me to, I will try to do it in PM.


Please proceed with the meat of the discussion.



Please do send me a PM when you can, thanks!



PM Comment noted and thanks for the feedback.


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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Until now I have purposely not responded to this thread in order to give myself some sort of perspective.


Like some have stated, there is a problem with the wording of the “poll” used to begin this conversation. As written, it gives only two choices. One answer appears to say that if you are a strong advocate of the 2nd Amendment you are somehow complicit in the madman’s shooting deaths of these children and any/all future shootings. The second choice gives the impression that you wish to change or amend the 2nd Amendment in some fashion as if the amendment itself caused the tragedy.


Can someone please illuminate the reasons exactly how the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution contributed to this shooting?


I am not without sympathy for the victims in this case or for any past victims of mass homicide. But it would appear that an individual’s right to possess a firearm doesn’t have anything to do with this mass murderer anymore than the gun’s manufacturer, distributer or dealer. He was not the owner of the weapon(s). He was not the purchaser of the weapon(s). As far as I know, he did not have the permission of the owner(s).


As far as I can tell, the only main issue is the perpetrator’s access to the firearms. It would seem to me that if you are the owner/possessor of any firearm(s) and they are not currently in your possession, they should be secured to preclude access/use by some unauthorized person(s). This would not be a Constitutional issue, but a state law issue.

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Dayngerus,


I'm glad that you chimed in. To answer your question "Nothing in itself". The question should have been framed differently for sure.  My mindset at the time was that here we go again, another idget massacred children and teachers at a place where every American should feel is one of the safest places a person could be, other than at home.


As far as the 2nd Amendment is concerned here is more fodder to restrict our rights as responsible gun owners,  how will we address the oncoming attack against the same. For me there is no need to change anything about our rights.


However, there are things that we can do. I gave an example earlier about my son. I followed the law and tragedy still struck. So, I took it one step further and put in further safeguards so that would never happen again in my household. The 1st poll question was basically what is the position of those who hold their gun rights so dear that any ideas to strengthen our position will be ignored.


The second poll question spoke for itself! 


There are laws in place that if followed will not stop any determined individual to get there hands on a firearm or any weapon if that is what they are bent on doing. I was simply posing what if anything we can do to make it more difficult for that to happen.


Florida law specifically addresses leaving firearms where a child can find it. Maybe, we need to update that law to include those with mental issues. Responsible gun ownership means just that responsible.


I hope that answered your question and I have more ideas and I wanted to hear from others what ideas they have.


Sorry, I have more to say but I have 5 minutes to head out the door to work.  Be safe out there!


Again thank you for being a part of the discussion and framing your question in a professional way!  


 


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

Csi_squirrle_max600_1__max50

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Rated +1 | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

 The only solution to stopping this type of violence is to arm teachers.  Before anyone blows a gasket let me explain:


Many teachers are former law enfocement, and former military.  Develop a training program for ALL teachers.  ANY teacher who volunteers to take the training may carry CONCEALED in the schools.


Even if no teacher ever takes on this responsibility the shooting would immediatly stop.  


These cowards do not want to be confronted they want to become famous.  


These cowards would not risk being mowed down at the door by an armed teacher.


As far as access to firearms.  There are enough laws already on the books.  This shooter committed a murder prior to heading to the school.  Does anyone belive he was concerned about the law?

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mmmm says ...



 The only solution to stopping this type of violence is to arm teachers.


**************EDITED**************



I have some very grave concerns about this one...... Where I work anyways, I have some serious concerns about many of our schools administration or teachers being armed.  I wouldn't trust them with a slingshot or a stick, much less a firearm.  In some cases, it would just invite more problems.  In our schools, teachers and administrators alike are careless with their property, inviting the theft of district and personal property.  Someone is going to be just complacent enough, forget to properly secure their weapon and it will end up in the hands of a student or in some cases, an unauthorized adult who has gained access into the classroom.  I might not have a problem with retired LE in some cases but I see serious repercussions in most others.

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

SkoolCop says ...



mmmm says ...



 The only solution to stopping this type of violence is to arm teachers.


**************EDITED**************



I have some very grave concerns about this one...... Where I work anyways, I have some serious concerns about many of our schools administration or teachers being armed.  I wouldn't trust them with a slingshot or a stick, much less a firearm.  In some cases, it would just invite more problems.  In our schools, teachers and administrators alike are careless with their property, inviting the theft of district and personal property.  Someone is going to be just complacent enough, forget to properly secure their weapon and it will end up in the hands of a student or in some cases, an unauthorized adult who has gained access into the classroom.  I might not have a problem with retired LE in some cases but I see serious repercussions in most others.



Huge Bump,


As a PO with the 4th largest school district in America. Arming teacher seems like a good idea, however it is not, simply because of liability and other issues.


God forbid that a teacher as Ron stated leaves that firearm unsecured, or leaves the keys, combination to wherever that weapon is stored and a student gets there hands on it.  Students steal from teachers daily.  Everything from their purses to their cars. The best example I can give why this is not an option other than liability to the school district is:


A female teacher arrived at home and drove into her garage, took her firearm out of her car and placed it on her car where the hood meets where the windshield wipers meets the hood.  She was distracted by her dog and forgot about the firearm being on the car.  The next morning she drove to work (school), with the firearm still on the car. She went in to work still not noticing the weapon on her vehicle. 


Luckily, the firearm was found by another employee who saw it in the windshield wiper area of the car and turned it in.  She had a concealed weapons permit but could have been charged with possession of a weapon on school grounds. Can you imagine if a student had found that weapon and kept it. That is just one example of a teacher irresponsibility with a firearm.  I have many many more! 


Oh, did I say LIABILITY! If a teacher or other school employee accidently discharges that weapon and injures or kills anyone on school grounds the school district would be sued faster than you can blink your eye! I have had to Baker act teachers who have had nervous breakdowns,  or became so angry with a child that they physically assaulted them. Teacher with a firearm, Noooooooo!


 


 


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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Dayngerus says ...



 


________________Edited________________


As far as I can tell, the only main issue is the perpetrator’s access to the firearms. It would seem to me that if you are the owner/possessor of any firearm(s) and they are not currently in your possession, they should be secured to preclude access/use by some unauthorized person(s). This would not be a Constitutional issue, but a state law issue.



Bump!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

snhadley says ...



SkoolCop says ...



mmmm says ...



 The only solution to stopping this type of violence is to arm teachers.


**************EDITED**************



I have some very grave concerns about this one...... Where I work anyways, I have some serious concerns about many of our schools administration or teachers being armed.  I wouldn't trust them with a slingshot or a stick, much less a firearm.  In some cases, it would just invite more problems.  In our schools, teachers and administrators alike are careless with their property, inviting the theft of district and personal property.  Someone is going to be just complacent enough, forget to properly secure their weapon and it will end up in the hands of a student or in some cases, an unauthorized adult who has gained access into the classroom.  I might not have a problem with retired LE in some cases but I see serious repercussions in most others.



Huge Bump,


As a PO with the 4th largest school district in America. Arming teacher seems like a good idea, however it is not, simply because of liability and other issues.


God forbid that a teacher as Ron stated leaves that firearm unsecured, or leaves the keys, combination to wherever that weapon is stored and a student gets there hands on it.  Students steal from teachers daily.  Everything from their purses to their cars. The best example I can give why this is not an option other than liability to the school district is:


A female teacher arrived at home and drove into her garage, took her firearm out of her car and placed it on her car where the hood meets where the windshield wipers meets the hood.  She was distracted by her dog and forgot about the firearm being on the car.  The next morning she drove to work (school), with the firearm still on the car. She went in to work still not noticing the weapon on her vehicle. 


Luckily, the firearm was found by another employee who saw it in the windshield wiper area of the car and turned it in.  She had a concealed weapons permit but could have been charged with possession of a weapon on school grounds. Can you imagine if a student had found that weapon and kept it. That is just one example of a teacher irresponsibility with a firearm.  I have many many more! 


Oh, did I say LIABILITY! If a teacher or other school employee accidently discharges that weapon and injures or kills anyone on school grounds the school district would be sued faster than you can blink your eye! I have had to Baker act teachers who have had nervous breakdowns,  or became so angry with a child that they physically assaulted them. Teacher with a firearm, Noooooooo!


 


12/17/2012 17:11


 BIG BUMP!!  That's all we need is kids getting ahold of that weapon or the teacher gets distracted and the gun gets stolen or lost. Then we have an even bigger problem. I also want to point out that not all teachers are prior leo's/military.....well at least here in the south they are not. Most teachers these days sometimes get to attached to their students and other kids. Would that same teacher be able to pull the trigger on a kid....someone that she/he might know?



You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

StrykerBrig21 says ...



snhadley says ...



SkoolCop says ...



mmmm says ...



 The only solution to stopping this type of violence is to arm teachers.


**************EDITED**************



I have some very grave concerns about this one...... Where I work anyways, I have some serious concerns about many of our schools administration or teachers being armed.  I wouldn't trust them with a slingshot or a stick, much less a firearm.  In some cases, it would just invite more problems.  In our schools, teachers and administrators alike are careless with their property, inviting the theft of district and personal property.  Someone is going to be just complacent enough, forget to properly secure their weapon and it will end up in the hands of a student or in some cases, an unauthorized adult who has gained access into the classroom.  I might not have a problem with retired LE in some cases but I see serious repercussions in most others.



Huge Bump,


As a PO with the 4th largest school district in America. Arming teacher seems like a good idea, however it is not, simply because of liability and other issues.


God forbid that a teacher as Ron stated leaves that firearm unsecured, or leaves the keys, combination to wherever that weapon is stored and a student gets there hands on it.  Students steal from teachers daily.  Everything from their purses to their cars. The best example I can give why this is not an option other than liability to the school district is:


A female teacher arrived at home and drove into her garage, took her firearm out of her car and placed it on her car where the hood meets where the windshield wipers meets the hood.  She was distracted by her dog and forgot about the firearm being on the car.  The next morning she drove to work (school), with the firearm still on the car. She went in to work still not noticing the weapon on her vehicle. 


Luckily, the firearm was found by another employee who saw it in the windshield wiper area of the car and turned it in.  She had a concealed weapons permit but could have been charged with possession of a weapon on school grounds. Can you imagine if a student had found that weapon and kept it. That is just one example of a teacher irresponsibility with a firearm.  I have many many more! 


Oh, did I say LIABILITY! If a teacher or other school employee accidently discharges that weapon and injures or kills anyone on school grounds the school district would be sued faster than you can blink your eye! I have had to Baker act teachers who have had nervous breakdowns,  or became so angry with a child that they physically assaulted them. Teacher with a firearm, Noooooooo!


 


12/17/2012 17:11


 BIG BUMP!!  That's all we need is kids getting ahold of that weapon or the teacher gets distracted and the gun gets stolen or lost. Then we have an even bigger problem. I also want to point out that not all teachers are prior leo's/military.....well at least here in the south they are not. Most teachers these days sometimes get to attached to their students and other kids. Would that same teacher be able to pull the trigger on a kid....someone that she/he might know?



I bump your bump and raise you two bumps!  Teachers are nurtures and you are on point!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

StrykerBrig21 says ...



snhadley says ...



SkoolCop says ...



mmmm says ...



 The only solution to stopping this type of violence is to arm teachers.


**************EDITED**************



I have some very grave concerns about this one...... Where I work anyways, I have some serious concerns about many of our schools administration or teachers being armed.  I wouldn't trust them with a slingshot or a stick, much less a firearm.  In some cases, it would just invite more problems.  In our schools, teachers and administrators alike are careless with their property, inviting the theft of district and personal property.  Someone is going to be just complacent enough, forget to properly secure their weapon and it will end up in the hands of a student or in some cases, an unauthorized adult who has gained access into the classroom.  I might not have a problem with retired LE in some cases but I see serious repercussions in most others.



Huge Bump,


As a PO with the 4th largest school district in America. Arming teacher seems like a good idea, however it is not, simply because of liability and other issues.


God forbid that a teacher as Ron stated leaves that firearm unsecured, or leaves the keys, combination to wherever that weapon is stored and a student gets there hands on it.  Students steal from teachers daily.  Everything from their purses to their cars. The best example I can give why this is not an option other than liability to the school district is:


A female teacher arrived at home and drove into her garage, took her firearm out of her car and placed it on her car where the hood meets where the windshield wipers meets the hood.  She was distracted by her dog and forgot about the firearm being on the car.  The next morning she drove to work (school), with the firearm still on the car. She went in to work still not noticing the weapon on her vehicle. 


Luckily, the firearm was found by another employee who saw it in the windshield wiper area of the car and turned it in.  She had a concealed weapons permit but could have been charged with possession of a weapon on school grounds. Can you imagine if a student had found that weapon and kept it. That is just one example of a teacher irresponsibility with a firearm.  I have many many more! 


Oh, did I say LIABILITY! If a teacher or other school employee accidently discharges that weapon and injures or kills anyone on school grounds the school district would be sued faster than you can blink your eye! I have had to Baker act teachers who have had nervous breakdowns,  or became so angry with a child that they physically assaulted them. Teacher with a firearm, Noooooooo!


 


12/17/2012 17:11


 BIG BUMP!!  That's all we need is kids getting ahold of that weapon or the teacher gets distracted and the gun gets stolen or lost. Then we have an even bigger problem. I also want to point out that not all teachers are prior leo's/military.....well at least here in the south they are not. Most teachers these days sometimes get to attached to their students and other kids. Would that same teacher be able to pull the trigger on a kid....someone that she/he might know?


Bump the Bumps. 


My Daughter is a counselor in the Detroit School System,  my other Daughter has her Cert to teach K-5,, but currently works with kids as an instructor.  When my Daughter in Michigan bought a home in Farmingdale MI, last February, withI power suggested her to find a range and purchase a weapon she could handle.  She declined.


Ive also discussed this my aunt who also teaches here in Jersey, who's a single mom.  My Aunt is an excellent Teacher, but she suffers from panick attacks. She's not comfortable with having a gun in the house with her little son, nevertheless have to have one in her classroom.


Although they disagree with me on gun ownership, their adults and have freedom to make their own choices.


So, let's say they Mandate all Teachers now have to be armed........


Should my daughters and Aunt throw away four years of college and their masters because they are not comfortable handling a weapon in their classroom?


OR....Would you want someone that has panick attacks go through the training for the sake of saving her job.


  I could hear it now, "Why didn't someone tell me that was only a wrench in the janitor's pocket?  sheesh


Arming every Teacher (imo) only succeeds to micro manage the macro problem of Gun Violence in the US.


~Mental Illness:  Undiagnosed, Improperly diagnosed , over diagnosed and then the 525's that are in denial.


~Violence:  We have sites on the net that show live executions with rock music behind it, Violent Movies released in theaters, Violent Video Games, inconjuction with kids that are a bit more tech savy then most of their parents.


The money spent turning Teachers into Army material coulda also be spent on someone that's already trained, tenured and qualified to respond to an active shooter.  Someone like an LEO..


just my .02


 



What doesn't kill me had better start running!

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

 Thought i'd add this to conversation. My Lt just posted this on her facebook wall. She told her kids to ask their teachers what they were suppose to do if a gunman came into the building. Her boys were told to not talk about the situation and let it go basically. No discussion on plans and what to do. Her other kid said they talked about it a little in another school, but they only locked doors. No discussion on the plan. 


What is wrong with this teacher! If it was my kid I would've tould him to talk about it until the teacher is forced to either go to the principal or gave him detention. This is something that NEEDS to be talked about. Otherwise chaos will happen when the real deal happens. If teachers cannot handle a question like this then I want that teacher to be on the unemployment line first thing morning!


You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

An interesting YouTube video produced by the Dept. of Homeland Security.


Cut and paste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcnA_Cq_Csk


Not necessarily for schools, but for general active shooter info for unarmed citizens.


(Thanks to mz66 for the link.)


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StrykerBrig21 says ...



 Thought i'd add this to conversation. My Lt just posted this on her facebook wall. She told her kids to ask their teachers what they were suppose to do if a gunman came into the building. Her boys were told to not talk about the situation and let it go basically. No discussion on plans and what to do. Her other kid said they talked about it a little in another school, but they only locked doors. No discussion on the plan. 


What is wrong with this teacher! If it was my kid I would've tould him to talk about it until the teacher is forced to either go to the principal or gave him detention. This is something that NEEDS to be talked about. Otherwise chaos will happen when the real deal happens. If teachers cannot handle a question like this then I want that teacher to be on the unemployment line first thing morning!



Bump, I am in no way defending this teacher, that mindset may be a directive from her administrator.  Either way whoever is responsible should be unemployed..


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

TheSarge says ...



An interesting YouTube video produced by the Dept. of Homeland Security.


Cut and paste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcnA_Cq_Csk


Not necessarily for schools, but for general active shooter info for unarmed citizens.


(Thanks to mz66 for the link.)


++++++++++++++



Thanks for sharing Sarge.  I teach Rapid Action Tactics (Active Shooter)  for the school district as well as local jurisdictions.  More so for LE tactics in eliminating the threat.  This is excellent for the civilians and students and I  will incorporate in in future training!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

LonnaNJ says ...



StrykerBrig21 says ...



snhadley says ...



SkoolCop says ...



mmmm says ...



 The only solution to stopping this type of violence is to arm teachers.


**************EDITED**************



I have some very grave concerns about this one...... Where I work anyways, I have some serious concerns about many of our schools administration or teachers being armed.  I wouldn't trust them with a slingshot or a stick, much less a firearm.  In some cases, it would just invite more problems.  In our schools, teachers and administrators alike are careless with their property, inviting the theft of district and personal property.  Someone is going to be just complacent enough, forget to properly secure their weapon and it will end up in the hands of a student or in some cases, an unauthorized adult who has gained access into the classroom.  I might not have a problem with retired LE in some cases but I see serious repercussions in most others.



Huge Bump,


As a PO with the 4th largest school district in America. Arming teacher seems like a good idea, however it is not, simply because of liability and other issues.


God forbid that a teacher as Ron stated leaves that firearm unsecured, or leaves the keys, combination to wherever that weapon is stored and a student gets there hands on it.  Students steal from teachers daily.  Everything from their purses to their cars. The best example I can give why this is not an option other than liability to the school district is:


A female teacher arrived at home and drove into her garage, took her firearm out of her car and placed it on her car where the hood meets where the windshield wipers meets the hood.  She was distracted by her dog and forgot about the firearm being on the car.  The next morning she drove to work (school), with the firearm still on the car. She went in to work still not noticing the weapon on her vehicle. 


Luckily, the firearm was found by another employee who saw it in the windshield wiper area of the car and turned it in.  She had a concealed weapons permit but could have been charged with possession of a weapon on school grounds. Can you imagine if a student had found that weapon and kept it. That is just one example of a teacher irresponsibility with a firearm.  I have many many more! 


Oh, did I say LIABILITY! If a teacher or other school employee accidently discharges that weapon and injures or kills anyone on school grounds the school district would be sued faster than you can blink your eye! I have had to Baker act teachers who have had nervous breakdowns,  or became so angry with a child that they physically assaulted them. Teacher with a firearm, Noooooooo!


 


12/17/2012 17:11


 BIG BUMP!!  That's all we need is kids getting ahold of that weapon or the teacher gets distracted and the gun gets stolen or lost. Then we have an even bigger problem. I also want to point out that not all teachers are prior leo's/military.....well at least here in the south they are not. Most teachers these days sometimes get to attached to their students and other kids. Would that same teacher be able to pull the trigger on a kid....someone that she/he might know?


Bump the Bumps. 


My Daughter is a counselor in the Detroit School System,  my other Daughter has her Cert to teach K-5,, but currently works with kids as an instructor.  When my Daughter in Michigan bought a home in Farmingdale MI, last February, withI power suggested her to find a range and purchase a weapon she could handle.  She declined.


Ive also discussed this my aunt who also teaches here in Jersey, who's a single mom.  My Aunt is an excellent Teacher, but she suffers from panick attacks. She's not comfortable with having a gun in the house with her little son, nevertheless have to have one in her classroom.


Although they disagree with me on gun ownership, their adults and have freedom to make their own choices.


So, let's say they Mandate all Teachers now have to be armed........


Should my daughters and Aunt throw away four years of college and their masters because they are not comfortable handling a weapon in their classroom?


OR....Would you want someone that has panick attacks go through the training for the sake of saving her job.


  I could hear it now, "Why didn't someone tell me that was only a wrench in the janitor's pocket?  sheesh


Arming every Teacher (imo) only succeeds to micro manage the macro problem of Gun Violence in the US.


~Mental Illness:  Undiagnosed, Improperly diagnosed , over diagnosed and then the 525's that are in denial.


~Violence:  We have sites on the net that show live executions with rock music behind it, Violent Movies released in theaters, Violent Video Games, inconjuction with kids that are a bit more tech savy then most of their parents.


The money spent turning Teachers into Army material coulda also be spent on someone that's already trained, tenured and qualified to respond to an active shooter.  Someone like an LEO..


just my .02


 



Lonna,


You are on point and absolutely right the majority of teachers are non-violent and some even opposed to have leo's on campus.  This latest incident probably changed a few of their minds about cops on campus and some still oppose cops on campus let alone being mandated to carry a firearm. Bump!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

No one in upper management has time to discuss things like an active shooter, BUT ironically their offices sit by the heavily guarded money room.  hmmm


The video the Sarge posted is a good training tool. Since it's short and simple,so  I'm going to attempt to show it to a few people next preshift meeting.


My venue holds 82,000 people during an event.  However, even with our NJSPHQ, S & D canines sweeps, underpaid unsworn security, no one checks bags on non event days.  I've seen day crews(cleaning contractor) coming in with backpacks, they need backpacks?.  I still think my workplace is safe, but not as safe as I would  like it to be.


Next time you watch a Giants/Jets game, take a close look at those 4 large TV's.  There's a whole walkway behind them where you can see the patrons underneath but they can't see you.  Just imagine if some lunatic hid there, Scary  right?  That's where I used find my smokers, we keep it locked now.


Again, I'm glad the Sarge posted that, video, and I hope it's short enough for their attention span.   Good Info


What doesn't kill me had better start running!

Rcsd04_max600_max50

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LonnaNJ says ...



No one in upper management has time to discuss things like an active shooter, BUT ironically their offices sit by the heavily guarded money room.  hmmm


The video the Sarge posted is a good training tool. Since it's short and simple,so  I'm going to attempt to show it to a few people next preshift meeting.


My venue holds 82,000 people during an event.  However, even with our NJSPHQ, S & D canines sweeps, underpaid unsworn security, no one checks bags on non event days.  I've seen day crews(cleaning contractor) coming in with backpacks, they need backpacks?.  I still think my workplace is safe, but not as safe as I would  like it to be.


Next time you watch a Giants/Jets game, take a close look at those 4 large TV's.  There's a whole walkway behind them where you can see the patrons underneath but they can't see you.  Just imagine if some lunatic hid there, Scary  right?  That's where I used find my smokers, we keep it locked now.


Again, I'm glad the Sarge posted that, video, and I hope it's short enough for their attention span.   Good Info


Bump!! I am almost in the same business you are. I work in an entertainment arena were some of the top performers come and sing/perform. We get crowds of 5000-30000. If someone was to try something at my work they would succeede BIG TIME! I have tried multiple times to get changes and have plans. Myself and others get turned everytime we say something due to money problems(which is not true). And I say the same thing about my church, no plans.I do understand how people can just sit back and do nothing and not see the problems. 



You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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LonnaNJ says ...



No one in upper management has time to discuss things like an active shooter, BUT ironically their offices sit by the heavily guarded money room.  hmmm


The video the Sarge posted is a good training tool. Since it's short and simple,so  I'm going to attempt to show it to a few people next preshift meeting.


My venue holds 82,000 people during an event.  However, even with our NJSPHQ, S & D canines sweeps, underpaid unsworn security, no one checks bags on non event days.  I've seen day crews(cleaning contractor) coming in with backpacks, they need backpacks?.  I still think my workplace is safe, but not as safe as I would  like it to be.


Next time you watch a Giants/Jets game, take a close look at those 4 large TV's.  There's a whole walkway behind them where you can see the patrons underneath but they can't see you.  Just imagine if some lunatic hid there, Scary  right?  That's where I used find my smokers, we keep it locked now.


Again, I'm glad the Sarge posted that, video, and I hope it's short enough for their attention span.   Good Info



Bump!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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StrykerBrig21 says ...



LonnaNJ says ...



No one in upper management has time to discuss things like an active shooter, BUT ironically their offices sit by the heavily guarded money room.  hmmm


The video the Sarge posted is a good training tool. Since it's short and simple,so  I'm going to attempt to show it to a few people next preshift meeting.


My venue holds 82,000 people during an event.  However, even with our NJSPHQ, S & D canines sweeps, underpaid unsworn security, no one checks bags on non event days.  I've seen day crews(cleaning contractor) coming in with backpacks, they need backpacks?.  I still think my workplace is safe, but not as safe as I would  like it to be.


Next time you watch a Giants/Jets game, take a close look at those 4 large TV's.  There's a whole walkway behind them where you can see the patrons underneath but they can't see you.  Just imagine if some lunatic hid there, Scary  right?  That's where I used find my smokers, we keep it locked now.


Again, I'm glad the Sarge posted that, video, and I hope it's short enough for their attention span.   Good Info


Bump!! I am almost in the same business you are. I work in an entertainment arena were some of the top performers come and sing/perform. We get crowds of 5000-30000. If someone was to try something at my work they would succeede BIG TIME! I have tried multiple times to get changes and have plans. Myself and others get turned everytime we say something due to money problems(which is not true). And I say the same thing about my church, no plans.I do understand how people can just sit back and do nothing and not see the problems. 



Bump!  Unfortunately, I have to be armed while attending church services!  There are several officers who attend my church and I suspect they are armed also.  Some occasionally come in uniform. This world is what it is and we must do what we have to do!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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StrykerBrig21 says ...



 Thought i'd add this to conversation. My Lt just posted this on her facebook wall. She told her kids to ask their teachers what they were suppose to do if a gunman came into the building. Her boys were told to not talk about the situation and let it go basically. No discussion on plans and what to do. Her other kid said they talked about it a little in another school, but they only locked doors. No discussion on the plan. 


What is wrong with this teacher! If it was my kid I would've tould him to talk about it until the teacher is forced to either go to the principal or gave him detention. This is something that NEEDS to be talked about. Otherwise chaos will happen when the real deal happens. If teachers cannot handle a question like this then I want that teacher to be on the unemployment line first thing morning!



Interesting response from a teacher at a school where a response plan should be in place given the increased active shooter activity around the country.  Teachers and administrators need to understand that these events can happen to them at the very school(s) they work in.  No one is immune anymore.  The day of schools (and for that matter, churches) being safe zones, gun free zones, off limits to the bad guys, etc. are over and done.  The blinders need to come off.


The day of the Newtown incident, I went to the school where my daughter attends and took a real GOOD look at everyone picking up their kids.  I did not see the Principal that day but I did see him today.  We already had this discussion at the beginning of this school year.  Why?  Because he is a NEW Principal at the school and I wanted him to know up front that I was not just a parent of one of his students but also a police officer.  I wanted him to know that if I were at the school and not in uniform, that I was STILL a police officer and that I was armed.  We spoke specifically about this type (Virginia Tech and now Newtown, Ct) of incident as the reason.  He did assure me that there is a plan in place and that all of the teachers have clear cut instructions on the "LOCK DOWN" procedures.  In addition to my child, I also pick up the child of a neighbor who's father is a firefighter.  On the way home the day of the incident, we discussed the (Newtown, Ct) incident.  The clear instructions that I gave them was that if they were to see an armed person on or about the campus, they were to stay calm and go to the nearest classroom, get inside and report the observation to the teacher, staff member or adult.  We are now working on trying to get as good a description as possible, keeping in mind that the kids are only 9 years old. 

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SkoolCop says ...



StrykerBrig21 says ...



 Thought i'd add this to conversation. My Lt just posted this on her facebook wall. She told her kids to ask their teachers what they were suppose to do if a gunman came into the building. Her boys were told to not talk about the situation and let it go basically. No discussion on plans and what to do. Her other kid said they talked about it a little in another school, but they only locked doors. No discussion on the plan. 


What is wrong with this teacher! If it was my kid I would've tould him to talk about it until the teacher is forced to either go to the principal or gave him detention. This is something that NEEDS to be talked about. Otherwise chaos will happen when the real deal happens. If teachers cannot handle a question like this then I want that teacher to be on the unemployment line first thing morning!



Interesting response from a teacher at a school where a response plan should be in place given the increased active shooter activity around the country.  Teachers and administrators need to understand that these events can happen to them at the very school(s) they work in.  No one is immune anymore.  The day of schools (and for that matter, churches) being safe zones, gun free zones, off limits to the bad guys, etc. are over and done.  The blinders need to come off.


The day of the Newtown incident, I went to the school where my daughter attends and took a real GOOD look at everyone picking up their kids.  I did not see the Principal that day but I did see him today.  We already had this discussion at the beginning of this school year.  Why?  Because he is a NEW Principal at the school and I wanted him to know up front that I was not just a parent of one of his students but also a police officer.  I wanted him to know that if I were at the school and not in uniform, that I was STILL a police officer and that I was armed.  We spoke specifically about this type (Virginia Tech and now Newtown, Ct) of incident as the reason.  He did assure me that there is a plan in place and that all of the teachers have clear cut instructions on the "LOCK DOWN" procedures.  In addition to my child, I also pick up the child of a neighbor who's father is a firefighter.  On the way home the day of the incident, we discussed the (Newtown, Ct) incident.  The clear instructions that I gave them was that if they were to see an armed person on or about the campus, they were to stay calm and go to the nearest classroom, get inside and report the observation to the teacher, staff member or adult.  We are now working on trying to get as good a description as possible, keeping in mind that the kids are only 9 years old. 



Bump, Ron!


I have to give it to the Miami-Dade School District.  They are on point with The Plan. The reason being they don't have to practice much because they have an actually event that would cause a code Red (Lockdown) and a full blown police response at any given school for a variety of reasons. So the majority of students and staff get it.


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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Having given this issue some thought, I think the best plan is to have one or more SRO in every school from kindergarden up.  The problem is money to pay for this.  Also no longer allow schools to be a dumping ground for mentally challanged individuals, public schools are required to accept all students, even thouse who have no business (IMO) of being there.  A tremendous amount of money is spent on special education, class size typically runs 1 to 5 students as that is all the teacher can handle.  Also public schools are overflowing with admainstrators, not teachers, elimination of a lot of the need for adminsitrators would free up money for SRO's.

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If you're interested in putting up a memorial avatar, here is one you can use until the memorial service of the last victim.



Thanks to Steve for providing this image.


The Guy !
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Honoring the Fallen

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

 In a perfect world we could keep guns out of the bad guys hands and only in the law abiding citizens who are responsible owners. The sad thing is that there are more illegal firearms out there than legal IMO. How do we stop the black market sales? It is a losing battle IMO. It is always interesting after a tragedy as such to hear about the red flags that go up about the individuals who commit these heinous crimes. I think that is where we have to start. Paying more attention to containing the loonies and being proactive. We need to quit looking at hindsight and then crying about it being the gun's fault, rather than ther person's actions. I have been born and raised with guns in a military family. I started to shoot at a range at 4 years old and have owned guns since I was legally able to.I get responsible ownership.


RIP all the victims of Newtown CT.


 


Thank you for opening this topic up.  

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Lets look at this in a historical perspective. The U.S. banned and dangerous drugs a century ago. They became ILLEGAL. Did they vanish from the country? Did criminals suddenly become law abiding citizens and turn theirs in and stop selling/buying them? Prohobition oultawed alcohol. Did all citizens blindly follow the law? Did alcohol cease to exist?


I feel that if our elected officials do decide to bend to the gun control minority and ban certain classes of weapons the same scenarios frrom history will replay.  "Assault Weapons" are not what civilians own. You own a semi-automatic VERSION of a military assault weapon. It jusy looks the same-hence evil! It is no different than a semi-automatic Remington 742 or 7400 or any semi-auto shotgun. One trigger pull one shot.


There are approximately 13,000 firearm related deaths per year. Including suicides. There are 32,000 motor vehicle deaths per year, 2.2million motor vehicle accidents with injuries per year. A cost of almost 1 billion dollars in medical and health care related costs due to them. No one is  touting the banning of motor vehicles or the banning of alcohol and driving, the use of cell phones while driving or banning texting while driving. On the national level. Far more citizens are injured and killed by other means than fireams.  You can attempt to legislate inanimate objects but you can never legislate human behavior with the assumtion that it will achieve the desired outcome. We are what we are. Some good, some average and borderline, some evil. If any class of firearms are banned all that will happen in my humble opinion is that the 1/3 of the citizenry who are do-gooders and super law abiding will tiurn theirs in. The middle one third who were law abiding and own these weapons will not and instantly become criminals and turn toward the  far right-militia agenda creating a worse problem for us and the government. The last third are the criminals who  already are by definition lawbreakers and they  will just keep doing what they do. The best course of action is not a knee jerk emotional one but wait for calmer times and see what can be accomplished.


""Life is a storm.. You will bask in the sunlight one moment, be shattered on the rocks the next. What makes you a man is what you do when that storm comes"
Alexander Dumas-The Count of Monte Christo

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18 December, 2012


Supreme Court Gun Ruling Doesn’t Block Proposed Controls


(copy and paste): http://nyti.ms/XFwBXU


Excerpt:


The courts have upheld federal laws banning gun ownership by people convicted of felonies and some misdemeanors, by illegal immigrants and by drug addicts. They have upheld laws making it illegal to carry guns near schools or in post offices. They have upheld laws concerning unregistered weapons. And they have upheld laws banning machine guns and sawed-off shotguns.


Nor does Heller impose any major hurdles to many of the most common legislative proposals in the wake of the Newtown shootings, said Adam Winkler, a law professor at the University of California in Los Angeles and the author of “Gun Fight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America.” Among the responses that Heller allows, he said, are better background checks, enhanced mental health reporting and a ban on high-capacity ammunition clips.


There is one major possible exception to the trend, and it is quite fresh. Last week, a divided three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit, in Chicago, struck down an Illinois law that banned carrying loaded guns in public. Judge Richard A. Posner, writing for the majority, said the ruling was required by the Heller decision.


The Heller case, decided by a 5-to-4 vote, struck down a ban on handguns kept in the home for self-defense, saying it violated the Second Amendment.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

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One more salient excerpt from the above linked article:


In a speech to the Brady Center in October, Justice John Paul Stevens, who dissented in Heller and retired in 2010, said the decision was wrong but limited.

“Even as generously construed in Heller,” he said, “the Second Amendment provides no obstacle to regulations prohibiting the ownership or use of the sorts of automatic weapons used in the tragic multiple killings in Virginia, Colorado and Arizona in recent years. The failure of Congress to take any action to minimize the risk of similar tragedies in the future cannot be blamed on the court’s decision in Heller.”




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

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snhadley says ...



SkoolCop says ...



StrykerBrig21 says ...



 Thought i'd add this to conversation. My Lt just posted this on her facebook wall. She told her kids to ask their teachers what they were suppose to do if a gunman came into the building. Her boys were told to not talk about the situation and let it go basically. No discussion on plans and what to do. Her other kid said they talked about it a little in another school, but they only locked doors. No discussion on the plan. 


What is wrong with this teacher! If it was my kid I would've tould him to talk about it until the teacher is forced to either go to the principal or gave him detention. This is something that NEEDS to be talked about. Otherwise chaos will happen when the real deal happens. If teachers cannot handle a question like this then I want that teacher to be on the unemployment line first thing morning!



Interesting response from a teacher at a school where a response plan should be in place given the increased active shooter activity around the country.  Teachers and administrators need to understand that these events can happen to them at the very school(s) they work in.  No one is immune anymore.  The day of schools (and for that matter, churches) being safe zones, gun free zones, off limits to the bad guys, etc. are over and done.  The blinders need to come off.


The day of the Newtown incident, I went to the school where my daughter attends and took a real GOOD look at everyone picking up their kids.  I did not see the Principal that day but I did see him today.  We already had this discussion at the beginning of this school year.  Why?  Because he is a NEW Principal at the school and I wanted him to know up front that I was not just a parent of one of his students but also a police officer.  I wanted him to know that if I were at the school and not in uniform, that I was STILL a police officer and that I was armed.  We spoke specifically about this type (Virginia Tech and now Newtown, Ct) of incident as the reason.  He did assure me that there is a plan in place and that all of the teachers have clear cut instructions on the "LOCK DOWN" procedures.  In addition to my child, I also pick up the child of a neighbor who's father is a firefighter.  On the way home the day of the incident, we discussed the (Newtown, Ct) incident.  The clear instructions that I gave them was that if they were to see an armed person on or about the campus, they were to stay calm and go to the nearest classroom, get inside and report the observation to the teacher, staff member or adult.  We are now working on trying to get as good a description as possible, keeping in mind that the kids are only 9 years old. 



Bump, Ron!


I have to give it to the Miami-Dade School District.  They are on point with The Plan. The reason being they don't have to practice much because they have an actually event that would cause a code Red (Lockdown) and a full blown police response at any given school for a variety of reasons. So the majority of students and staff get it.



This happened Friday, but I could not discuss it until it hit the news http://miami.cbslocal.com/video/8080574-miami-student-arrested-for-tweeting-ill-shoot-up-this-school/  You won't believe what this exceptional student said about the murders in Newtown, Ct.  It was too graphic for tv.


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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Cedardale says ...



Having given this issue some thought, I think the best plan is to have one or more SRO in every school from kindergarden up.  The problem is money to pay for this.  Also no longer allow schools to be a dumping ground for mentally challanged individuals, public schools are required to accept all students, even thouse who have no business (IMO) of being there.  A tremendous amount of money is spent on special education, class size typically runs 1 to 5 students as that is all the teacher can handle.  Also public schools are overflowing with admainstrators, not teachers, elimination of a lot of the need for adminsitrators would free up money for SRO's.



Bump, Miami-Dade Schools actually have schools for those with extreme mental and behavioral issues and are equipped with holding cells. I have never seen them in use but they are there.  There are probably called time out rooms to be PC!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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