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Poll: America and guns in the hands who should not have them!

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Poll: Are you willing to take a stand and fix this problem !

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Cedardale says ...



The problem will never be solved as long as we blame the tools, not the tool weilder.  I think the problm really startedabout 30+ or so years ago, I think when the ACLU and the judicial system decided that mentally challanged (PC) or nut jobs (my description) shouldn't be forcefully institualized but should be free to live in society at large.  Far fewer mental institutions than in 1950 but far nore killings by nut jobs, and not all with firearms. JMO



Bump!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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snhadley says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...


**************************************** Quote removed for space. . . . .********************************************


Agreed!  My question is what can we do if anything to address this issue! I have not watched the news since yesterday! The media feeds on these issues and gives these scum a platform to encourage others to do the next heinous thing!

If you would look at my previous post you will see what I suggested. . . . .but I will post again.


FIRST - there is no easy fix.  It has taken us decades to get to this lack of responsibility and lack of morality and will take many years to overcome.  However, even when morality was higher. . . .we had these shootings.  I think Sarge posted earlier that since our countries inception, we have had 108 shootings in our schools so really. . . .this is nothing new.


SECONDLY - place GOD back into the schools along with responsibility of the parents AND the ability of the school system to provide their own forms of channel changing with corporal punishment for when the child steps over a preset line.  Isn't funny how the Bible has been pulled from the schools but pushed into the prisons?  Both are government institutions. . . .what's the difference?  If God was "allowed" back into our schools (not pushed). . . .maybe we wouldn't need as much of him in the prisons.


THIRDLY - let society know that the laws that are already in place WILL be ENFORCED TO THE LETTER!  Re-institute hard labor and capital punishment.  With either video or irrefutable proof of guilt of some sort, the case mandatorily goes before a judge for adjudication.  If found guilty, execution of sentence takes place before the end of a 7 day period.  Summmary execution for murder (of any type) is mandatory either hanging or firing squad. . . .BUT IT IS PUBLIC!  Let the public know that this type of behaviour WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!


If these ideas are instituted, you will see a gradual change in attitude towards these types of crimes but NOTHING and I repeat NOTHING will change ANYTHING overnight!


I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

John Bernard Books, from "The Shootist"

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Beowulf_7 says ...



snhadley says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...


**************************************** Quote removed for space. . . . .********************************************


Agreed!  My question is what can we do if anything to address this issue! I have not watched the news since yesterday! The media feeds on these issues and gives these scum a platform to encourage others to do the next heinous thing!

If you would look at my previous post you will see what I suggested. . . . .but I will post again.


FIRST - there is no easy fix.  It has taken us decades to get to this lack of responsibility and lack of morality and will take many years to overcome.  However, even when morality was higher. . . .we had these shootings.  I think Sarge posted earlier that since our countries inception, we have had 108 shootings in our schools so really. . . .this is nothing new.


SECONDLY - replace GOD in the schools along with responsibility of the parents AND the ability of the school system to provide their own forms of channel changing with corporal punishment for when the child steps over a preset line.  Isn't funny how the Bible has been pulled from the schools but pushed into the prisons?  Both are government institutions. . . .what's the difference?  If God was "allowed" back into our schools (not pushed). . . .maybe we wouldn't need as much of him in the prisons.


THIRDLY - let society know that the laws that are already in place WILL be ENFORCED TO THE LETTER!  Re-institute hard labor and capital punishment.  With either video or irrefutable proof of guilt of some sort, the case mandatorily goes before a judge for adjudication.  If found guilty, execution of sentence takes place before the end of a 7 day period.  Summmary execution for murder (of any type) is mandatory either hanging or firing squad. . . .BUT IT IS PUBLIC!  Let the public know that this type of behaviour WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!


If these ideas are instituted, you will see a gradual change in attitude towards these types of crimes but NOTHING and I repeat NOTHING will change ANYTHING overnight!



Your previous post was about Obama and your free gun, then it was the 2nd amendment, world history. All of which was off topic.  Your response now is on topic and absolutely correct! I support your views 100%.  Just in case you misunderstood what I posted I will repost it too:


Some would  say it is too soon to have this conversation and other like I would say its too late to have this conversation! America , lost several babies to the horror of firearms and a deranged gunman!


When is enough, enough! I am a strong and adamant believer in our 2nd amendment rights to bear arms!  How do we fix the degenerates who utilize firearms to protect our most precious assets our children!  Background checks are obviously a freaking joke!  Although, from what I read the weapons belonged to the parents who this pos killed. His Facebook page stated that he would kill people and then himself.  His friends and others laughed at him instead of reporting his rants and threats. Every school must have a police officer assigned to it.  My uber-liberal friends would say you are Violating the rights of my child to enter school by having metal detectors and random sweeps for weapons.


Metal detectors/ High police presence at every school from elementary through college should be mandated by law.  The level of Protection for our future should be the same as that as an airport, federal courthouse, a jail or any place where the possibility of violence can occur. My soapbox is not about liberal and conservative. It's about protecting our future, my conservative friends will say now liberals will have the opportunity to take away our gun rights! NOT!



We need to formulate a plan that protects of 2nd Amendment rights and protects our children!  Law abiding citizens are not the problem.  This and other acts perpetrated against innocent Americans are a form of domestic terrorism!  We must act as if an foreign power perpetrated this, the other acts against our citizens and children. America is reactionary and not preventative.  Can we stop every idiot out there? No, but we can sure damn try! Words mean nothing to a grieving parent! Action can help ease the pain!


I agree to agree! Why because I do!  Thank you, for getting on topic!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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snhadley says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...



snhadley says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...


**************************************** Quote removed for space. . . . .********************************************


Agreed!  My question is what can we do if anything to address this issue! I have not watched the news since yesterday! The media feeds on these issues and gives these scum a platform to encourage others to do the next heinous thing!

If you would look at my previous post you will see what I suggested. . . . .but I will post again.


FIRST - there is no easy fix.  It has taken us decades to get to this lack of responsibility and lack of morality and will take many years to overcome.  However, even when morality was higher. . . .we had these shootings.  I think Sarge posted earlier that since our countries inception, we have had 108 shootings in our schools so really. . . .this is nothing new.


SECONDLY - replace GOD in the schools along with responsibility of the parents AND the ability of the school system to provide their own forms of channel changing with corporal punishment for when the child steps over a preset line.  Isn't funny how the Bible has been pulled from the schools but pushed into the prisons?  Both are government institutions. . . .what's the difference?  If God was "allowed" back into our schools (not pushed). . . .maybe we wouldn't need as much of him in the prisons.


THIRDLY - let society know that the laws that are already in place WILL be ENFORCED TO THE LETTER!  Re-institute hard labor and capital punishment.  With either video or irrefutable proof of guilt of some sort, the case mandatorily goes before a judge for adjudication.  If found guilty, execution of sentence takes place before the end of a 7 day period.  Summmary execution for murder (of any type) is mandatory either hanging or firing squad. . . .BUT IT IS PUBLIC!  Let the public know that this type of behaviour WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!


If these ideas are instituted, you will see a gradual change in attitude towards these types of crimes but NOTHING and I repeat NOTHING will change ANYTHING overnight!



Your previous post was about Obama and your free gun, then it was the 2nd amendment, world history. All of which was off topic.  Your response now is on topic and absolutely correct! I support your views 100%.  Just in case you misunderstood what I posted I will repost it too:


Some would  say it is too soon to have this conversation and other like I would say its too late to have this conversation! America , lost several babies to the horror of firearms and a deranged gunman!


When is enough, enough! I am a strong and adamant believer in our 2nd amendment rights to bear arms!  How do we fix the degenerates who utilize firearms to protect our most precious assets our children!  Background checks are obviously a freaking joke!  Although, from what I read the weapons belonged to the parents who this pos killed. His Facebook page stated that he would kill people and then himself.  His friends and others laughed at him instead of reporting his rants and threats. Every school must have a police officer assigned to it.  My uber-liberal friends would say you are Violating the rights of my child to enter school by having metal detectors and random sweeps for weapons.


Metal detectors/ High police presence at every school from elementary through college should be mandated by law.  The level of Protection for our future should be the same as that as an airport, federal courthouse, a jail or any place where the possibility of violence can occur. My soapbox is not about liberal and conservative. It's about protecting our future, my conservative friends will say now liberals will have the opportunity to take away our gun rights! NOT!



We need to formulate a plan that protects of 2nd Amendment rights and protects our children!  Law abiding citizens are not the problem.  This and other acts perpetrated against innocent Americans are a form of domestic terrorism!  We must act as if an foreign power perpetrated this, the other acts against our citizens and children. America is reactionary and not preventative.  Can we stop every idiot out there? No, but we can sure damn try! Words mean nothing to a grieving parent! Action can help ease the pain!


I agree to agree! Why because I do!  Thank you, for getting on topic!



No, we don't agree because from the start you worded your poll with only two options. . . . .leave things as they are and damn the consequences or do we start further picking apart our GOD given rights just so we can be safe.  You, like the media have an agenda and from the wording of your poll to the wording of your first post it is VERY apparent that you are willing to further sacrifice your freedoms and mine for a quick fix.  Let me point out that YOU were the one that called this "Domestic Terrorism".


It isn't Domestic Terrorism, it is simply a crime. . . .a very HEINOUS crime for killing children, but it is still just a crime.  Is a child's life more important than that of an adult?  No, yet we use the phrases such as "protecting our children" or "for the children's sake" so we can sell people on the need to give into either giving money. . . .or more importantly, giving up their GOD given rights because the salesman (i.e. President, Congress, Policymakers, etc. . .) can increase their power and wealth over us.  So don't even try to tell me that you agree with me.  For the record I WAS THE ONLY VOTE (to this point) FOR YOUR FIRST CHOICE AND I WILL ALWAYS VOTE THAT WAY. . . .NO NEGOTIATING MY, OR YOUR RIGHTS WITH ME!


Benjamin Franklin said it best. . . ."They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."


Without the understanding of the current climate. . . . .or previous history. . . .we shall continue to repeat the mistakes of our forefathers.  When you understand these things, only then you can look to to other possibilities for "fixing" things.  Things that have been tried before and failed are not good choices to try again. . . .are they?  You asked for a conversation on this topic, I gave you many things to think about. . . .but you rejected them because they don't fit your ideas of a fix.  I guess I'm sorry that common sense is not what you are looking for, but that is all that I have to give you. . . .common sense and decent reasoning.


No, I understand very clearly what you want and you won't find it with me because I will neither give up my rights. . . .nor my guns to you or anyone else . . . . . just for a little temporary safety.  If you understood history at all. . . .maybe your outlook on life would be a little different also.


I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

John Bernard Books, from "The Shootist"

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Beowulf's first post was excellent. I would quote and bump it, but it is pretty long. It is definitely worth the read.

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Oh, by the way. . . .in my first post I DID post ideas.  Must have missed those when you were critiquing it for your agenda.  It went exactly like this:



In the end, nobody can promise that you will be alive tomorrow. . . .nobody. Yes, there is evil in this world. . . .we cannot change that, BUT instead of creating a nation of sheep waiting for the shearing, why not arm the teachers in our schools like they do Israel? Or is there too much logic to that thought? Instead of spending money on adding police to the schools to create a police state, you create a closed school system where there are alarms on ALL of the doors, except the main entrances, and the doors stayed lock with teachers monitoring the doors when they aren't teaching. The entrance doors have "man traps" and only office personnel can open the doors during the course of a school day. If someone gets stupid, then they get to stay in the man trap until the police arrive. Bring back corporal punishment for those students that act up beyond a certain point and expulsion when they become uncontrollable. AND FOR GOD'S SAKE (and ours) DO NOT PASS THOSE STUDENTS THAT CANNOT READ, WRITE OR DO SIMPLE ARITHMETIC!


Let's force the parents to take back responsibility of raising their children instead of the teachers. . . or ultimately the police and finally. . . . .for those people that perform the most heinous acts of brutality against our fellow human beings (with a certain level of witnessing. . .like video or incontrafutable evidence), they get to be publicly executed by hanging, firing squad or maybe even beheadings. . . .YES BEHEADINGS and it is done within a month of the act so it is fresh in the minds of the public!! Some of these animals are soooo brutal that they don't deserve a nice quiet ending with a needle. Remember also, that back in the 1800's it was constitutionally legal to hang a horse thief so don't even try to reason with me that hanging is too brutal for a punishment according to the 8th Amendment.



I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

John Bernard Books, from "The Shootist"

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Rated +1 | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

There is all this talk about gun contro the problem is not the guns but the people. It is our responsibilty to keep them locked up and it is also our responsibilty to train and teach people that guns are not toys but a tool that needs respected. We the people not the Government need to teach our kids how to treat guns. We also need to bring religion back to the schools and teach right from wrong to our children and our children are more then just who lives in your house it is all the children. We are the models that they base how they grow up. This is why there are more good kids then thugs running around and we should keep it that way. And the press needs to stop and think because the gunner is not the victim he should be treated as a none news item focus on the real victims.


sorry for the rant but is how I feel.

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Beowulf_7 says ...



Oh, by the way. . . .in my first post I DID post ideas.  Must have missed those when you were critiquing it for your agenda.  It went exactly like this:



 



In the end, nobody can promise that you will be alive tomorrow. . . .nobody. Yes, there is evil in this world. . . .we cannot change that, BUT instead of creating a nation of sheep waiting for the shearing, why not arm the teachers in our schools like they do Israel? Or is there too much logic to that thought? Instead of spending money on adding police to the schools to create a police state, you create a closed school system where there are alarms on ALL of the doors, except the main entrances, and the doors stayed lock with teachers monitoring the doors when they aren't teaching. The entrance doors have "man traps" and only office personnel can open the doors during the course of a school day. If someone gets stupid, then they get to stay in the man trap until the police arrive. Bring back corporal punishment for those students that act up beyond a certain point and expulsion when they become uncontrollable. AND FOR GOD'S SAKE (and ours) DO NOT PASS THOSE STUDENTS THAT CANNOT READ, WRITE OR DO SIMPLE ARITHMETIC!


Let's force the parents to take back responsibility of raising their children instead of the teachers. . . or ultimately the police and finally. . . . .for those people that perform the most heinous acts of brutality against our fellow human beings (with a certain level of witnessing. . .like video or incontrafutable evidence), they get to be publicly executed by hanging, firing squad or maybe even beheadings. . . .YES BEHEADINGS and it is done within a month of the act so it is fresh in the minds of the public!! Some of these animals are soooo brutal that they don't deserve a nice quiet ending with a needle. Remember also, that back in the 1800's it was constitutionally legal to hang a horse thief so don't even try to reason with me that hanging is too brutal for a punishment according to the 8th Amendment.



Unfortunately, Monster was updating the site and I was unable to respond immediately to your rant.


That was a good thing, it gave me an opportunity to temper my response a tiny little bit, Since you like quotes, Dr. Martin Luther King said it better, "The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that of the good people"


First let me remind you that you are not talking to a child.  So tone it down a bit! I will take it in to consideration that you may be bi-polar!  Please explain to me when agreeing with your points are not agreeing. What really is sad is that you derailed them by rambling on about nonsense that has nothing to do with the poll. There is a forum for that!


What is your problem, you obviously have personal issues greater than this issue, or are you one of the people that should not have access to a firearm, Bic pen or any other weapon,  As the question was posed you certainly fit the bill.


Remember you started the personal attack so standby "I'm reloading", "Ok, I'm Reloaded"


Please point out where I said take weapons from law abiding citizens, President Obama, rich politicians and whatever nonsense your mind and the voices in your head said I said!


You have no idea what I am willing to do! So please keep your ass-umptions to yourself. True, I asked a question to start a discussion on how we can solve an ongoing problem, period! Then the ultra right wing BS came in to play! As I said it would in my original post! You guys never disappoint! Where are the ultra left wingers, you guy are not representing.  Oh may be they understood the question!


I am 1000% pro-gun and our 2nd amendment rights are sacred to me.  So giving an inch on diluting my or your right to bear arms is out of the question and no where near the table for discussion. I was very clear on that so I do not understand your rant or my alleged agenda.


The folks at Westboro church plan to protest this tragedy and they holler God quite often, as well as you do. Are you cut from that cloth also?  A cloth that would justify attacking your Brother in an open forum. Especially, when I am agreeing with you: Oh, I forgot that Cain and Abel thing.   Now, I really understand what the discord is in Congress! Are you off your meds or what?


The only agenda I have is the protection of our most precious assets and to defend those who cannot defend themselves.  Please spare me your history lessons especially when you leave out history that is contradictory to your agenda.


As far as my comment about Domestic terrorism, well it is and it is a crime also just as the Oklahoma city bombing and the bombing of a church in Alabama which killed 4 young souls is and was.  My opinion is my opinion and sorry you can't shut me up or send me to my room.


As I stated earlier, there are medications for your condition.  Apparently, the constitution as written was not perfect hence there are 27 amendments to it and there will probably be more.


If the problem was that you wanted a question added to the poll then a PM or comment to that effect would have stopped you from going off the deep end. Do both of us a favor, think before reacting because no one will ever know who the fool is in the room until they open their mouth!


 Now, go on get back to your bunker and take your little Nazi friend with you!


Be safe out there and watch your six!


 


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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Elite1grey says ...



There is all this talk about gun contro the problem is not the guns but the people. It is our responsibilty to keep them locked up and it is also our responsibilty to train and teach people that guns are not toys but a tool that needs respected. We the people not the Government need to teach our kids how to treat guns. We also need to bring religion back to the schools and teach right from wrong to our children and our children are more then just who lives in your house it is all the children. We are the models that they base how they grow up. This is why there are more good kids then thugs running around and we should keep it that way. And the press needs to stop and think because the gunner is not the victim he should be treated as a none news item focus on the real victims.


sorry for the rant but is how I feel.



Thank you for the non-rant and expressing your feelings without judging others for their opinions either perceived or real!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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Beowulf_7 says ...



 


snhadley says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...



snhadley says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...


**************************************** Quote removed for space. . . . .********************************************


Agreed!  My question is what can we do if anything to address this issue! I have not watched the news since yesterday! The media feeds on these issues and gives these scum a platform to encourage others to do the next heinous thing!

If you would look at my previous post you will see what I suggested. . . . .but I will post again.


FIRST - there is no easy fix.  It has taken us decades to get to this lack of responsibility and lack of morality and will take many years to overcome.  However, even when morality was higher. . . .we had these shootings.  I think Sarge posted earlier that since our countries inception, we have had 108 shootings in our schools so really. . . .this is nothing new.


SECONDLY - replace GOD in the schools along with responsibility of the parents AND the ability of the school system to provide their own forms of channel changing with corporal punishment for when the child steps over a preset line.  Isn't funny how the Bible has been pulled from the schools but pushed into the prisons?  Both are government institutions. . . .what's the difference?  If God was "allowed" back into our schools (not pushed). . . .maybe we wouldn't need as much of him in the prisons.


THIRDLY - let society know that the laws that are already in place WILL be ENFORCED TO THE LETTER!  Re-institute hard labor and capital punishment.  With either video or irrefutable proof of guilt of some sort, the case mandatorily goes before a judge for adjudication.  If found guilty, execution of sentence takes place before the end of a 7 day period.  Summmary execution for murder (of any type) is mandatory either hanging or firing squad. . . .BUT IT IS PUBLIC!  Let the public know that this type of behaviour WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!


If these ideas are instituted, you will see a gradual change in attitude towards these types of crimes but NOTHING and I repeat NOTHING will change ANYTHING overnight!



Your previous post was about Obama and your free gun, then it was the 2nd amendment, world history. All of which was off topic.  Your response now is on topic and absolutely correct! I support your views 100%.  Just in case you misunderstood what I posted I will repost it too:


Some would  say it is too soon to have this conversation and other like I would say its too late to have this conversation! America , lost several babies to the horror of firearms and a deranged gunman!


When is enough, enough! I am a strong and adamant believer in our 2nd amendment rights to bear arms!  How do we fix the degenerates who utilize firearms to protect our most precious assets our children!  Background checks are obviously a freaking joke!  Although, from what I read the weapons belonged to the parents who this pos killed. His Facebook page stated that he would kill people and then himself.  His friends and others laughed at him instead of reporting his rants and threats. Every school must have a police officer assigned to it.  My uber-liberal friends would say you are Violating the rights of my child to enter school by having metal detectors and random sweeps for weapons.


Metal detectors/ High police presence at every school from elementary through college should be mandated by law.  The level of Protection for our future should be the same as that as an airport, federal courthouse, a jail or any place where the possibility of violence can occur. My soapbox is not about liberal and conservative. It's about protecting our future, my conservative friends will say now liberals will have the opportunity to take away our gun rights! NOT!



We need to formulate a plan that protects of 2nd Amendment rights and protects our children!  Law abiding citizens are not the problem.  This and other acts perpetrated against innocent Americans are a form of domestic terrorism!  We must act as if an foreign power perpetrated this, the other acts against our citizens and children. America is reactionary and not preventative.  Can we stop every idiot out there? No, but we can sure damn try! Words mean nothing to a grieving parent! Action can help ease the pain!


I agree to agree! Why because I do!  Thank you, for getting on topic!



No, we don't agree because from the start you worded your poll with only two options. . . . .leave things as they are and damn the consequences or do we start further picking apart our GOD given rights just so we can be safe.  You, like the media have an agenda and from the wording of your poll to the wording of your first post it is VERY apparent that you are willing to further sacrifice your freedoms and mine for a quick fix.  Let me point out that YOU were the one that called this "Domestic Terrorism".


It isn't Domestic Terrorism, it is simply a crime. . . .a very HEINOUS crime for killing children, but it is still just a crime.  Is a child's life more important than that of an adult?  No, yet we use the phrases such as "protecting our children" or "for the children's sake" so we can sell people on the need to give into either giving money. . . .or more importantly, giving up their GOD given rights because the salesman (i.e. President, Congress, Policymakers, etc. . .) can increase their power and wealth over us.  So don't even try to tell me that you agree with me.  For the record I WAS THE ONLY VOTE (to this point) FOR YOUR FIRST CHOICE AND I WILL ALWAYS VOTE THAT WAY. . . .NO NEGOTIATING MY, OR YOUR RIGHTS WITH ME!


Benjamin Franklin said it best. . . ."They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."


Without the understanding of the current climate. . . . .or previous history. . . .we shall continue to repeat the mistakes of our forefathers.  When you understand these things, only then you can look to to other possibilities for "fixing" things.  Things that have been tried before and failed are not good choices to try again. . . .are they?  You asked for a conversation on this topic, I gave you many things to think about. . . .but you rejected them because they don't fit your ideas of a fix.  I guess I'm sorry that common sense is not what you are looking for, but that is all that I have to give you. . . .common sense and decent reasoning.


No, I understand very clearly what you want and you won't find it with me because I will neither give up my rights. . . .nor my guns to you or anyone else . . . . . just for a little temporary safety.  If you understood history at all. . . .maybe your outlook on life would be a little different also.



12-16-2012


Just curious, where did snhadley start talking about denying our 2nd Amendment Rights?  I didn't see it in the inital post or poll.  He was looking for a solution without sacraficing our 2nd Amendment Rights... from what I see. 


Here are my thoughts... you can't just start arming teachers with weapons.  They would have to go through hours and hours of training on gun laws, how to use a weapon, when to use a weapon, etc.  They would be expected to protect the classroom just like that of a Police Officer is expected to protect a civilian. Teachers are not Police Officers and shouldn't have to be in a position to act like one.  Think of how much training an Officer has to go through about the Weapons Laws as well.. not to mention, the training of carrying a weapon such as that someone doesn't just take if off your hip while you are carrying... you know what I mean. 


Our world is becoming a place where security is a neccessity... we have evolved toward this, unfortunately.  I think we DO need to have strict security at our schools, no matter the cost.  What is the harm in that except for protecting the kids? 


I agree with everyone else who talked about our society and family values.. and how that plays a huge role in someone's life, as to maybe not prevent a crime. 


Great topic.. these are opinions, no one's opinion is the "right" answer, necessarily.  I think snhadley is a concerned human being and was hoping for possible solutions and opinions to talk about in this forum.. nothing more, nothing less.


"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives." - Ronald Reagan

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Catwoman911 says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...



 


snhadley says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...



snhadley says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...


**************************************** Quote removed for space. . . . .********************************************


Agreed!  My question is what can we do if anything to address this issue! I have not watched the news since yesterday! The media feeds on these issues and gives these scum a platform to encourage others to do the next heinous thing!

If you would look at my previous post you will see what I suggested. . . . .but I will post again.


FIRST - there is no easy fix.  It has taken us decades to get to this lack of responsibility and lack of morality and will take many years to overcome.  However, even when morality was higher. . . .we had these shootings.  I think Sarge posted earlier that since our countries inception, we have had 108 shootings in our schools so really. . . .this is nothing new.


SECONDLY - replace GOD in the schools along with responsibility of the parents AND the ability of the school system to provide their own forms of channel changing with corporal punishment for when the child steps over a preset line.  Isn't funny how the Bible has been pulled from the schools but pushed into the prisons?  Both are government institutions. . . .what's the difference?  If God was "allowed" back into our schools (not pushed). . . .maybe we wouldn't need as much of him in the prisons.


THIRDLY - let society know that the laws that are already in place WILL be ENFORCED TO THE LETTER!  Re-institute hard labor and capital punishment.  With either video or irrefutable proof of guilt of some sort, the case mandatorily goes before a judge for adjudication.  If found guilty, execution of sentence takes place before the end of a 7 day period.  Summmary execution for murder (of any type) is mandatory either hanging or firing squad. . . .BUT IT IS PUBLIC!  Let the public know that this type of behaviour WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!


If these ideas are instituted, you will see a gradual change in attitude towards these types of crimes but NOTHING and I repeat NOTHING will change ANYTHING overnight!



Your previous post was about Obama and your free gun, then it was the 2nd amendment, world history. All of which was off topic.  Your response now is on topic and absolutely correct! I support your views 100%.  Just in case you misunderstood what I posted I will repost it too:


Some would  say it is too soon to have this conversation and other like I would say its too late to have this conversation! America , lost several babies to the horror of firearms and a deranged gunman!


When is enough, enough! I am a strong and adamant believer in our 2nd amendment rights to bear arms!  How do we fix the degenerates who utilize firearms to protect our most precious assets our children!  Background checks are obviously a freaking joke!  Although, from what I read the weapons belonged to the parents who this pos killed. His Facebook page stated that he would kill people and then himself.  His friends and others laughed at him instead of reporting his rants and threats. Every school must have a police officer assigned to it.  My uber-liberal friends would say you are Violating the rights of my child to enter school by having metal detectors and random sweeps for weapons.


Metal detectors/ High police presence at every school from elementary through college should be mandated by law.  The level of Protection for our future should be the same as that as an airport, federal courthouse, a jail or any place where the possibility of violence can occur. My soapbox is not about liberal and conservative. It's about protecting our future, my conservative friends will say now liberals will have the opportunity to take away our gun rights! NOT!



We need to formulate a plan that protects of 2nd Amendment rights and protects our children!  Law abiding citizens are not the problem.  This and other acts perpetrated against innocent Americans are a form of domestic terrorism!  We must act as if an foreign power perpetrated this, the other acts against our citizens and children. America is reactionary and not preventative.  Can we stop every idiot out there? No, but we can sure damn try! Words mean nothing to a grieving parent! Action can help ease the pain!


I agree to agree! Why because I do!  Thank you, for getting on topic!



No, we don't agree because from the start you worded your poll with only two options. . . . .leave things as they are and damn the consequences or do we start further picking apart our GOD given rights just so we can be safe.  You, like the media have an agenda and from the wording of your poll to the wording of your first post it is VERY apparent that you are willing to further sacrifice your freedoms and mine for a quick fix.  Let me point out that YOU were the one that called this "Domestic Terrorism".


It isn't Domestic Terrorism, it is simply a crime. . . .a very HEINOUS crime for killing children, but it is still just a crime.  Is a child's life more important than that of an adult?  No, yet we use the phrases such as "protecting our children" or "for the children's sake" so we can sell people on the need to give into either giving money. . . .or more importantly, giving up their GOD given rights because the salesman (i.e. President, Congress, Policymakers, etc. . .) can increase their power and wealth over us.  So don't even try to tell me that you agree with me.  For the record I WAS THE ONLY VOTE (to this point) FOR YOUR FIRST CHOICE AND I WILL ALWAYS VOTE THAT WAY. . . .NO NEGOTIATING MY, OR YOUR RIGHTS WITH ME!


Benjamin Franklin said it best. . . ."They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."


Without the understanding of the current climate. . . . .or previous history. . . .we shall continue to repeat the mistakes of our forefathers.  When you understand these things, only then you can look to to other possibilities for "fixing" things.  Things that have been tried before and failed are not good choices to try again. . . .are they?  You asked for a conversation on this topic, I gave you many things to think about. . . .but you rejected them because they don't fit your ideas of a fix.  I guess I'm sorry that common sense is not what you are looking for, but that is all that I have to give you. . . .common sense and decent reasoning.


No, I understand very clearly what you want and you won't find it with me because I will neither give up my rights. . . .nor my guns to you or anyone else . . . . . just for a little temporary safety.  If you understood history at all. . . .maybe your outlook on life would be a little different also.



12-16-2012


Just curious, where did snhadley start talking about denying our 2nd Amendment Rights?  I didn't see it in the inital post or poll.  He was looking for a solution without sacraficing our 2nd Amendment Rights... from what I see. 


Here are my thoughts... you can't just start arming teachers with weapons.  They would have to go through hours and hours of training on gun laws, how to use a weapon, when to use a weapon, etc.  They would be expected to protect the classroom just like that of a Police Officer is expected to protect a civilian. Teachers are not Police Officers and shouldn't have to be in a position to act like one.  Think of how much training an Officer has to go through about the Weapons Laws as well.. not to mention, the training of carrying a weapon such as that someone doesn't just take if off your hip while you are carrying... you know what I mean. 


Our world is becoming a place where security is a neccessity... we have evolved toward this, unfortunately.  I think we DO need to have strict security at our schools, no matter the cost.  What is the harm in that except for protecting the kids? 


I agree with everyone else who talked about our society and family values.. and how that plays a huge role in someone's life, as to maybe not prevent a crime. 


Great topic.. these are opinions, no one's opinion is the "right" answer, necessarily.  I think snhadley is a concerned human being and was hoping for possible solutions and opinions to talk about in this forum.. nothing more, nothing less.


BIG BUMP CAT!


People have lost their little kids, and parents are in mourning.   There's going to be kneejerk reactions, can we blame them??  As a parent myself, I sympathize and mourn with them. 


As far as this Snhadlys topic, maybe I'm a bit confused, but I took as someone searching for resolutions, God forbid there was ever a repeat


 



What doesn't kill me had better start running!

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

None of my remarks here should be taken as intended to bait the OP by means of skewing this thread into off-topic concerns.  Snhadley and I have been friends.  I would never dismiss his concerns.  Nor would I dismiss Beowulf's passionate response. I have been friends with him too.


Neither are any of my remarks intended to trivialize the ensuing debate.  I merely tried to  introduce levity into the fray.  LEOs are human. If some curly-slapping results in the heat of debate, I won't whine, "Gee Gosh, can't we all kiss and make up?" That is at the discretion of the combatants. Out of respect,  I would never serve soda and cookies between rounds. 


These are serious concerns.


Liberals clamor for psychological testing as a pre-requisite to owning a firearm.   I have heartily objected to the general call AND mere sugestion for mandated state-issued psychological testing as a 'cure'.  Such action carries heavy implications in terms of record-keeping and government-intrusion. It establishes precedent for questionable regulation of all kinds. 


Including debate on the Second Amendment is just as pertinent to liberty as the debate on fortifying schools into fortresses.  I believe we are obliged to be cautious where we instill a counter-message to the liberties enjoyed by a truly free society.  We have the charge of instilling the virtues of our democracy in the hearts and minds of our children.  We do that by instilling an early sense of freedom, not by inculcating a pervasive climate of terror.  What does a fortress mean?  What does a gun-toting teacher mean?


These are not easy questions. 


Enough. I leave my fellow members to continue this debate as is fitting.

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WOW!!  Looked in the mirror today and didn't see a deranged person looking back at me. . . . .but you have alluded to the fact that I'm unfit to carry a Bic pen. . . . much less a gun.  YOUR words . . . . not mine.  Remember these from your last post?   What is your problem, you obviously have personal issues greater than this issue, or are you one of the people that should not have access to a firearm, Bic pen or any other weapon, As the question was posed you certainly fit the bill.


For both snhadley and catwoman911. . . . . .snhadley, you posted a poll that gave just 2 options. . . .leave things the way they are with guns in the hands of everyone OR  My Second Amendment rights are sacred but we must do something about removing them from the hands of those who should not have legal access to firearms!  Riddle me this!  WHO decides who can and can't have a weapon?  You?  Catwoman911?  The liberal judge down the road?  The liberal sheriff?  No, you do not believe in the Constitution and its Amendments applying to all.  For you argument, take a look at what has happened in New York City. . . .Mayor Bloomberg wanted the National Guard to come in for the free labor to rebuild the city's infrastructure. . . . .but did not want them carrying their weapons into the city.  If I remember the quote he said he didn't want anyone in the city with a gun except for his police.  Sounds like a trusting fellow there. . . .does it not?


Funny, I don't remember pissing in anyone's Cheerios lately, yet YOU started the personal attacks with your last post, not me.  BUT, if it's a pissing match you are looking for. . . . .let me know. . . .I'm game.  I only took what YOU posted and began reasoning it out. . . .and did not like what I was seeing, so I posted with reasoning and common sense. You are thinking with emotions and trying to find a reactionary response to what happened.  Poor way of doing business, let me refer you back to Benjamin Franklin's quote I posted earlier (which you seem to have either missed, or chose not to address) ."They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 


Your claim of me going off topic was also inaccurate as my last post addressed that, but you chose not to address it.  WHY?  Probably because of your emotional agenda.  I don't think with my heart like a lot of people and it makes the choices a LOT easier.  When you start allowing your emotions to start thinking for you, that is what we called "Stinkin' Thinkin'" and it usually comes from a reaction to a traumatic event.  It also comes with a cost because the outcome is never well thought out.


In the end, YOU asked for an honest conversation on the topic.  Unfortunately, I believed you and proffered an honest and what I would consider a well thought out response to the thoughts that you and others had offered up before me.  I guess I was wrong. . . .you didn't want an HONEST debate.  You didn't want a debate at all, you wanted a bunch of sheeple to come along and follow you, the pied piper.  I guess that was my mistake, not recognizing a conniving politician in the making.


I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

John Bernard Books, from "The Shootist"

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

 In my opinion, the problem that contributes to incidents like this is the moral and ethical decay of our society! The problem with gun control is law abiding citizens obey the law...criminals don't. Therefore having a plan in place to deal with an active shooter can help lessen the loss of life, because no one can respond as fast as armed personnel already on the grounds.

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

16DEC2012 14:23


 First off prayers for all involved with the crime scene, I could not imagine going into this school and seeing what they had seen. It will be something that they will live with forever. And prayers for the families.


My opinion is that something needs to be done about these nut jobs getting these weapons. 


1. As parents/relatives/friends we need to let the younger people know that guns are not for playing around with. They must be taken seriously! And we must teach them the difference in the games they play with game systems and the play guns the use around the house and the real guns. I do not blame games and fake guns for this, I blame people for not showing kids the differences. 


2. Lock your guns up! Do not allow people to access them that do not need to have access to them. If you have weapons in the home, lock them with keys/combinations/pad lock, what ever it maybe. Your kids should not have access to them, either young or old or with mental issues. You may say that your child knows the difference in what is real and fake and they would never touch them. What about their friends? The friends will pressure them into getting that gun out for show and next thing you see is the friend pulls the trigger on accident. 


3. We all need to beaware of our friends and family and what's going on with them. WIth so much social media that it out there it most likely that we have most of our friends and famiy on them as well. We need to watchful on what they post. If something looks wrong with a friends or relatives post or what they are doing in their lives we need to step in! 


I think if we follow these 3 simple ideas that we could cut the gun violence down big time! I personally think that things will only get worse as time goes on. 


You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

12/16/12. First I thank Steve for starting this discussion. I have nothing to add and agree with the majority of comments.

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

12-16-12


Ok, folks, I have removed my posts as a participant and stepped back. I am now a moderator for this discussion.


Although the discussion is intelligent, creative, meaningful and passionate, please do not be snarky or snap at one another. An opinion or comment is just that, ... someone's posted observation.


The discussion is touching on getting in people's faces and we need to be cautious of this.


This discussion needs to be aired. But not at the expense of stepping on someone's thoughts. Respect, class and the usual professionalism.


Carry on.


Thanks.


The Guy !
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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

LonnaNJ says ...



Catwoman911 says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...



 


snhadley says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...



snhadley says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...


**************************************** Quote removed for space. . . . .********************************************



12-16-2012


Just curious, where did snhadley start talking about denying our 2nd Amendment Rights?  I didn't see it in the inital post or poll.  He was looking for a solution without sacraficing our 2nd Amendment Rights... from what I see. 


Here are my thoughts... you can't just start arming teachers with weapons.  They would have to go through hours and hours of training on gun laws, how to use a weapon, when to use a weapon, etc.  They would be expected to protect the classroom just like that of a Police Officer is expected to protect a civilian. Teachers are not Police Officers and shouldn't have to be in a position to act like one.  Think of how much training an Officer has to go through about the Weapons Laws as well.. not to mention, the training of carrying a weapon such as that someone doesn't just take if off your hip while you are carrying... you know what I mean. 


Our world is becoming a place where security is a neccessity... we have evolved toward this, unfortunately.  I think we DO need to have strict security at our schools, no matter the cost.  What is the harm in that except for protecting the kids? 


I agree with everyone else who talked about our society and family values.. and how that plays a huge role in someone's life, as to maybe not prevent a crime. 


Great topic.. these are opinions, no one's opinion is the "right" answer, necessarily.  I think snhadley is a concerned human being and was hoping for possible solutions and opinions to talk about in this forum.. nothing more, nothing less.


BIG BUMP CAT!


People have lost their little kids, and parents are in mourning.   There's going to be kneejerk reactions, can we blame them??  As a parent myself, I sympathize and mourn with them. 


As far as this Snhadlys topic, maybe I'm a bit confused, but I took as someone searching for resolutions, God forbid there was ever a repeat


 



I have to repost this since it was cut before I could edit out something. . . . . .


Michelle, I saw a picture in Time. . . .or some other magazine (can't remember where exactly) that showed an Israeli teacher walking her elementary students back into the building and over her shoulder she had an assault rifle.  No, we don't have Canada or Mexico sending suicide bombers into our country to do us harm, but you do have to admit that we seem to be creating enough idiots here in the good ol' U.S of A. all by ourselves.  If I remember correctly, every Israeli is REQUIRED to spend 2 years (I think) in the military so yes, they already have some skills to work with, provided by the military.


I think over the last couple of years we have seen too many incidents where an armed teacher(s) had the ability to alter the outcome of the incident long before the police arrived and mounted a response to what was in progress.  Remember, the outcome of these things usually happen within the first 5 minutes. . . .long before the police have a chance to be even be called and enroute.  Does it take extra training?  Yes it does, but teachers are in the schooling business. . . . .are they not?  Besides, (I'm being a bit facicious here) they have a 2 1/2 month vacation in the summer time to polish up on their shooting skills.  Actually, do I think that all teachers be armed. . . .heavens no.  However, allow those that do have a desire. . . . .to follow the protocols that were developed by the school system on when to carry and when to deploy.


I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

John Bernard Books, from "The Shootist"

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

Beowulf_7 says ...



LonnaNJ says ...



Catwoman911 says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...



 


snhadley says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...



snhadley says ...



Beowulf_7 says ...


**************************************** Quote removed for space. . . . .********************************************



12-16-2012


Just curious, where did snhadley start talking about denying our 2nd Amendment Rights?  I didn't see it in the inital post or poll.  He was looking for a solution without sacraficing our 2nd Amendment Rights... from what I see. 


Here are my thoughts... you can't just start arming teachers with weapons.  They would have to go through hours and hours of training on gun laws, how to use a weapon, when to use a weapon, etc.  They would be expected to protect the classroom just like that of a Police Officer is expected to protect a civilian. Teachers are not Police Officers and shouldn't have to be in a position to act like one.  Think of how much training an Officer has to go through about the Weapons Laws as well.. not to mention, the training of carrying a weapon such as that someone doesn't just take if off your hip while you are carrying... you know what I mean. 


Our world is becoming a place where security is a neccessity... we have evolved toward this, unfortunately.  I think we DO need to have strict security at our schools, no matter the cost.  What is the harm in that except for protecting the kids? 


I agree with everyone else who talked about our society and family values.. and how that plays a huge role in someone's life, as to maybe not prevent a crime. 


Great topic.. these are opinions, no one's opinion is the "right" answer, necessarily.  I think snhadley is a concerned human being and was hoping for possible solutions and opinions to talk about in this forum.. nothing more, nothing less.


BIG BUMP CAT!


People have lost their little kids, and parents are in mourning.   There's going to be kneejerk reactions, can we blame them??  As a parent myself, I sympathize and mourn with them. 


As far as this Snhadlys topic, maybe I'm a bit confused, but I took as someone searching for resolutions, God forbid there was ever a repeat


 



I have to repost this since it was cut before I could edit out something. . . . . .


Michelle, I saw a picture in Time. . . .or some other magazine (can't remember where exactly) that showed an Israeli teacher walking her elementary students back into the building and over her shoulder she had an assault rifle.  No, we don't have Canada or Mexico sending suicide bombers into our country to do us harm, but you do have to admit that we seem to be creating enough idiots here in the good ol' U.S of A. all by ourselves.  If I remember correctly, every Israeli is REQUIRED to spend 2 years (I think) in the military so yes, they already have some skills to work with, provided by the military.


I think over the last couple of years we have seen too many incidents where an armed teacher(s) had the ability to alter the outcome of the incident long before the police arrived and mounted a response to what was in progress.  Remember, the outcome of these things usually happen within the first 5 minutes. . . .long before the police have a chance to be even be called and enroute.  Does it take extra training?  Yes it does, but teachers are in the schooling business. . . . .are they not?  Besides, (I'm being a bit facicious here) they have a 2 1/2 month vacation in the summer time to polish up on their shooting skills.  Actually, do I think that all teachers be armed. . . .heavens no.  However, allow those that do have a desire. . . . .to follow the protocols that were developed by the school system on when to carry and when to deploy.



Ok, so what was there to report in the post?  And who would delete something or edit something?  Were you referring to me? If so, I would assume that I might have offended someone, not sure how... but I didn't mean to.  I was simply stating my opinion on this thread and an opinion of what I don't think shouldn't happen based on one of your posts... teachers with guns... that is all!  So, if there was a misunderstanding, I apologize.


I understand what you are saying Steve, as I had thought about arming our teachers as well.. when I was thinking about this yesterday.  I just think it would be chaotic if we did that.. again, just one person's opinion.  Could it save lives?  It might.. and the idea is not far fetched either. I am not a parent, but if I were, I don't know how safe I would be knowing that all the teachers in a school were carrying weapons.  What if a teacher "snapped" like any other seemingly normal person?  I am just trying to look at all sides.


 


"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives." - Ronald Reagan

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

No, you didn't report it or delete it. . . . .a moderator read it and deleted it because while the main thrust of the post was legit, they said I threw in a sucker punch at the end of it.  I realized it after I hit submit and before I had the chance to edit my post. . . .POOF!  It was gone, so I had to repost the main portion of my message. . . . .that's all.


I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

John Bernard Books, from "The Shootist"

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

Beowulf_7 says ...



No, you didn't report it or delete it. . . . .a moderator read it and deleted it because while the main thrust of the post was legit, they said I threw in a sucker punch at the end of it.  I realized it after I hit submit and before I had the chance to edit my post. . . .POOF!  It was gone, so I had to repost the main portion of my message. . . . .that's all.



Ohhh.. Ok, I misread that.. lol..


"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives." - Ronald Reagan

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

Beowulf_7 says ...



WOW!!  Looked in the mirror today and didn't see a deranged person looking back at me. . . . .but you have alluded to the fact that I'm unfit to carry a Bic pen. . . . much less a gun.  YOUR words . . . . not mine.  Remember these from your last post?   What is your problem, you obviously have personal issues greater than this issue, or are you one of the people that should not have access to a firearm, Bic pen or any other weapon, As the question was posed you certainly fit the bill.


For both snhadley and catwoman911. . . . . .snhadley, you posted a poll that gave just 2 options. . . .leave things the way they are with guns in the hands of everyone OR  My Second Amendment rights are sacred but we must do something about removing them from the hands of those who should not have legal access to firearms!  Riddle me this!  WHO decides who can and can't have a weapon?  You?  Catwoman911?  The liberal judge down the road?  The liberal sheriff?  No, you do not believe in the Constitution and its Amendments applying to all.  For you argument, take a look at what has happened in New York City. . . .Mayor Bloomberg wanted the National Guard to come in for the free labor to rebuild the city's infrastructure. . . . .but did not want them carrying their weapons into the city.  If I remember the quote he said he didn't want anyone in the city with a gun except for his police.  Sounds like a trusting fellow there. . . .does it not?


Funny, I don't remember pissing in anyone's Cheerios lately, yet YOU started the personal attacks with your last post, not me.  BUT, if it's a pissing match you are looking for. . . . .let me know. . . .I'm game.  I only took what YOU posted and began reasoning it out. . . .and did not like what I was seeing, so I posted with reasoning and common sense. You are thinking with emotions and trying to find a reactionary response to what happened.  Poor way of doing business, let me refer you back to Benjamin Franklin's quote I posted earlier (which you seem to have either missed, or chose not to address) ."They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 


Your claim of me going off topic was also inaccurate as my last post addressed that, but you chose not to address it.  WHY?  Probably because of your emotional agenda.  I don't think with my heart like a lot of people and it makes the choices a LOT easier.  When you start allowing your emotions to start thinking for you, that is what we called "Stinkin' Thinkin'" and it usually comes from a reaction to a traumatic event.  It also comes with a cost because the outcome is never well thought out.


In the end, YOU asked for an honest conversation on the topic.  Unfortunately, I believed you and proffered an honest and what I would consider a well thought out response to the thoughts that you and others had offered up before me.  I guess I was wrong. . . .you didn't want an HONEST debate.  You didn't want a debate at all, you wanted a bunch of sheeple to come along and follow you, the pied piper.  I guess that was my mistake, not recognizing a conniving politician in the making.



No comment!  Happy Sunday to you! The high road is always best! Be safe out there!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

MarlyB says ...



None of my remarks here should be taken as intended to bait the OP by means of skewing this thread into off-topic concerns.  Snhadley and I have been friends.  I would never dismiss his concerns.  Nor would I dismiss Beowulf's passionate response. I have been friends with him too.


Neither are any of my remarks intended to trivialize the ensuing debate.  I merely tried to  introduce levity into the fray.  LEOs are human. If some curly-slapping results in the heat of debate, I won't whine, "Gee Gosh, can't we all kiss and make up?" That is at the discretion of the combatants. Out of respect,  I would never serve soda and cookies between rounds. 


These are serious concerns.


Liberals clamor for psychological testing as a pre-requisite to owning a firearm.   I have heartily objected to the general call AND mere sugestion for mandated state-issued psychological testing as a 'cure'.  Such action carries heavy implications in terms of record-keeping and government-intrusion. It establishes precedent for questionable regulation of all kinds. 


Including debate on the Second Amendment is just as pertinent to liberty as the debate on fortifying schools into fortresses.  I believe we are obliged to be cautious where we instill a counter-message to the liberties enjoyed by a truly free society.  We have the charge of instilling the virtues of our democracy in the hearts and minds of our children.  We do that by instilling an early sense of freedom, not by inculcating a pervasive climate of terror.  What does a fortress mean?  What does a gun-toting teacher mean?


These are not easy questions. 


Enough. I leave my fellow members to continue this debate as is fitting.



Bump, Your concerns are noted and valid!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

As previously stated, gun control would have done little in this case as he got the firearms from his mother who legally owned them. If he didn't get them from her, he might have stole them from someone else who possessed weapons, such as another family member. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold also did not get their guns by legitimate means, nor are guns the only dealer of death.


It's a sticky situation. We've got enough guns currently in circulation that gun control laws would do very little. To put it simply, if someone wants something, there is a way to get it especially with the internet. Not to mention all of the disasters that have been averted by people with CCWs (such as this elderly man who fired at robbers in an internet cafe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMZbW2Q92MM, or the man who drew his gun on a shooter in a shopping mall a few days back). I would give up every weapon I owned if it assured that there would never be another 6 year old gunned down by a dirtbag, but I don't believe that it would.


An interesting article about the divide between the U.S (lenient gun laws) and China (strict gun laws): http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/world/asia/china-us-school-attack/index.html. Violence exists everywhere...the means of it happening may differ.


I would absolutely be in favor of increasing police presence in and around schools. Have local police units patrol a little heavier around school areas during the school day. Have security or a school resource officer at as many buildings as possible (increase the budget!). What about teachers and guns? I would not be opposed to allowing teachers to bring weapons to school, as long as they have their CCW, pass an extensive background check, psychological test and polygraph test, and keep the weapon completely and totally away from child access. Some of that is likely impossible and I would not particularly like the idea of dropping my kid off in a school with 50 guns and teachers packing. Still, I would prefer it to having our own weapons taken away.


Kind of rambling, sorry...Bump to everyone. Many of you make very good points. It may seem like the world is going to pot, but hang in there. Actually, mass shootings in the last decade are far lower than they have been in the past. "Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota Department of Corrections who has written a history of mass murders in America, said that while mass shootings rose between the 1960s and the 1990s, they actually dropped in the 2000s. And mass killings actually reached their peak in 1929, according to his data. He estimates that there were 32 in the 1980s, 42 in the 1990s and 26 in the first decade of the century." Source: http://news.yahoo.com/no-rise-mass-killings-impact-huge-185700637.html


 


"Live in such a way that those who know you but do not know God, will come to know God because they know you."

Mr-natural_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

Repeating what I said before (which got swept up in a purge of other posts--shrug): I too have concerns with how the poll was phrased. It was unquestionably slanted. It's like those "leading questions" lawyers always talk about (e.g. "Have you stopped beating your wife?"). Regardless--it did spur a useful discussion, but I don't think we should gloss over the fact that the phrasing was bound to raise the neck hairs of some folks. 




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

Vpsomourningband_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

 I may be wrong, but I believe snhadley posted the poll questions based on his belief that everyone is 100% for our right to bear arms and all he wants to discuss is does everyone have this right, no questions asked or should we ask and deny some.  If I am mistaken, my apologies.


Today was a draining day at work... deaths and people acting like the world owes them... and I'm a bit irritated with that and with the sniping that is going on here.  We are all friends/brothers and sisters here!  Put the egos to bed please.  Other than that, I am enjoying this topic and the responses.


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~I wondered why somebody didn't do something, then I realized I was somebody. ~ unknown

Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

DonnaLynn says ...



 I may be wrong, but I believe snhadley posted the poll questions based on his belief that everyone is 100% for our right to bear arms and all he wants to discuss is does everyone have this right, no questions asked or should we ask and deny some.  If I am mistaken, my apologies.


Today was a draining day at work... deaths and people acting like the world owes them... and I'm a bit irritated with that and with the sniping that is going on here.  We are all friends/brothers and sisters here!  Put the egos to bed please.  Other than that, I am enjoying this topic and the responses.



  • Bump DL on time and on target as usual!  Please search the forums for "teachers with firearms" It was started about four years ago.  I tried to post it here but I keep getting an html mark up error.  it is almost Deja vu to this topic!  My responses are marked as Anonymous as I had account issues earlier so my avatar was deleted!  

  • This is tame compared to that one! 

 


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

StrykerBrig21 says ...



16DEC2012 14:23


 First off prayers for all involved with the crime scene, I could not imagine going into this school and seeing what they had seen. It will be something that they will live with forever. And prayers for the families.


My opinion is that something needs to be done about these nut jobs getting these weapons. 


1. As parents/relatives/friends we need to let the younger people know that guns are not for playing around with. They must be taken seriously! And we must teach them the difference in the games they play with game systems and the play guns the use around the house and the real guns. I do not blame games and fake guns for this, I blame people for not showing kids the differences. 


2. Lock your guns up! Do not allow people to access them that do not need to have access to them. If you have weapons in the home, lock them with keys/combinations/pad lock, what ever it maybe. Your kids should not have access to them, either young or old or with mental issues. You may say that your child knows the difference in what is real and fake and they would never touch them. What about their friends? The friends will pressure them into getting that gun out for show and next thing you see is the friend pulls the trigger on accident. 


3. We all need to beaware of our friends and family and what's going on with them. WIth so much social media that it out there it most likely that we have most of our friends and famiy on them as well. We need to watchful on what they post. If something looks wrong with a friends or relatives post or what they are doing in their lives we need to step in! 


I think if we follow these 3 simple ideas that we could cut the gun violence down big time! I personally think that things will only get worse as time goes on. 



Huge bump! I certainly learned my lesson as I stated earlier about my youngest son! God was with us both on that day. He lived, married and gave me two beautiful grandchildren,  Today is his birthday and I thank God for that! Please pray for him as he serves his country with the Army  in Afghanistan after a tour in Iraq!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

mz66 says ...



Repeating what I said before (which got swept up in a purge of other posts--shrug): I too have concerns with how the poll was phrased. It was unquestionably slanted. It's like those "leading questions" lawyers always talk about (e.g. "Have you stopped beating your wife?"). Regardless--it did spur a useful discussion, but I don't think we should gloss over the fact that the phrasing was bound to raise the neck hairs of some folks. 



Matt please explain or give an example of how you would have framed the poll and questions! With every problem perceived or real I try to give a solution.


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

Mr-natural_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

As I said, this did spur a decent discussion and I don't want to get it off that track by yammering about my obsession over the construction of the questions. If you want me to, I will try to do it in PM.


Please proceed with the meat of the discussion.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

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