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Poll: America and guns in the hands who should not have them!

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Poll: Are you willing to take a stand and fix this problem !

Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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Posted over 1 year ago

 

Some would  say it is too soon to have this conversation and other like I would say its too late to have this conversation! America , lost several babies to the horror of firearms and a deranged gunman!


When is enough, enough! I am a strong and adamant believer in our 2nd amendment rights to bear arms!  How do we fix the degenerates who utilize firearms to protect our most precious assets our children!  Background checks are obviously a freaking joke!  Although, from what I read the weapons belonged to the parents who this pos killed. His Facebook page stated that he would kill people and then himself.  His friends and others laughed at him instead of reporting his rants and threats. Every school must have a police officer assigned to it.  My ubber-liberal friends would say you are Violating the rights of my child to enter school by having metal detectors and random sweeps for weapons.


Metal detectors/ High police presence at every school from elementary through college should be mandated by law.  The level of Protection for our future should be the same as that as an airport, federal courthouse, a jail or any place where the possibility of violence can occur. My soapbox is not about liberal and conservative. It's about protecting our future, my conservative friends will say now liberals will have the opportunity to take away our gun rights! NOT!


We need to formulate a plan that protects of 2nd Amendment rights and protects our children!  Law abiding citizens are not the problem.  This and other acts perpetrated against innocent Americans are a form of domestic terrorism!  We must act as if an foreign power perpatrated this, the other acts against our citizens and children. America is reactionary and not preventative.  Can we stop every idiot out there? No, but we can sure damn try! Words mean nothing to a grieving parent! Action can help ease the pain!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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Bump snhadley.

Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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That's nice! The sheeple view but do not comment, they do not act! Please continue to view and not comment!  Please continue to stand by the wayside and allow this and other acts against our society to unfold until you are personally effected! Then and only then will you may or not have something to say! I do not care what your position is! Just have one, and voice it! Silence is not golden it's empowering for those who do what they do against us!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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Irishcop1961 says ...



Bump snhadley


Bump, Brother! This this burns at my core as it does you! Be safe and I personally thank you for suiting up and taking it to those who perpatrated and allow through silence to continue these acts to continue!



“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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BUMP SNHADLEY/IRISH


Thanks for opening up this topic. I'm also pro-2nd, but  I think this incident it bears discussion.


This tragedy has been heavy on my heart., and I don't think I'll forget these innocent victims anytime soon.  20 Children and 6 adults died a horrific death, most probably choking on their own blood clueless to why this happening, where's mommy ect....


I couldn't be in their parents shoes, but come to think of it this could have been anyone of our children.


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't someone with an unstable son have their weapons secured in a lock box?  I don't get it?


What doesn't kill me had better start running!

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LonnaNJ says ...



BUMP SNHADLEY/IRISH


Thanks for opening up this topic. I'm also pro-2nd, but  I think this incident it bears discussion.


This tragedy has been heavy on my heart., and I don't think I'll forget these innocent victims anytime soon.  20 Children and 6 adults died a horrific death, most probably choking on their own blood clueless to why this happening, where's mommy ect....


I couldn't be in their parents shoes, but come to think of it this could have been anyone of our children.


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't someone with an unstable son have their weapons secured in a lock box?  I don't get it? 


bumb. My gun is locked up and the only way any body can get it is if I hand it to that person.


Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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LonnaNJ says ...



BUMP SNHADLEY/IRISH


Thanks for opening up this topic. I'm also pro-2nd, but  I think this incident it bears discussion.


This tragedy has been heavy on my heart., and I don't think I'll forget these innocent victims anytime soon.  20 Children and 6 adults died a horrific death, most probably choking on their own blood clueless to why this happening, where's mommy ect....


I couldn't be in their parents shoes, but come to think of it this could have been anyone of our children.


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't someone with an unstable son have their weapons secured in a lock box?  I don't get it?



Lonna,


You are absolutely correct, I have a bank safe that I installed in my home that is only opened by key and combination! Proactive verses reactive is always best. I was being proactive by complying with the law.  Instead I was reactive after I almost lost my youngest son to what I thought was sacred my locked bedroom and a closet within in it, where I kept a 9mm handgun! 


My then 12 year old breeched my privacy (with a butter knife to the deadbolt lock) took a chair and retrieved that handgun from the highest shelf within it and accidentally shot himself in the stomach!  I was not at home but my wife was in the kitchen cooking and I was at an open house at my oldest son's school!


Can you imagine the horror after receiving that phone call that my youngest son was being airlifted by fire rescue from my home! I share this with the world because No child can or should die because a parent thinks they took all the precautions required by to law to prevent this from happening to them and their children. By law, I was covered but by my conscious I had to take it one step forward,  Hence the safe! 

 


Having said that to say this; American needs to take it one step forward also!  


 


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

Mardi_gras_cat_max50

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Bump Steven.  I agree our children need protection at school. More police presence and metal detectors etc.


This scum is not a human by any stretch of the imagination.  He is not mentally deranged.  I refuse to excuse or justify his behavior like so many are doing... drugs, poor upbringing, crazy and it's God's fault.  This evil being thought about this act, planned it, gathered his weapons and put his plan to action.  HE did this and, of course, took himself out.  What a coward!  He couldn't face men and women who could be on equal footing weapon-wise.  Noooooo!  He's evil!  Evil is not human in my opinion.  Evil has no compasson, no feelings but one and that is hate. 


 


 


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Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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DonnaLynn says ...



Bump Steven.  I agree our children need protection at school. More police presence and metal detectors etc. at school, agreed. 


This scum is not a human by any stretch of the imagination.  He is not mentally deranged.  I refuse to excuse or justify his behavior like so many are doing... drugs, poor upbringing, crazy and it's God's fault.  This evil being thought about this act, planned it, gathered his weapons and put his plan to action.  HE did this and, of course, took himself out.  What a coward!  He couldn't face men and women who could be on equal footing weapon-wise.  Noooooo!  He's evil!  Evil is not human in my opinion.  Evil has no compasson, no feelings but one and that is hate. 


 Huge Bump DL, MY EXACT SENTIMENT!!!!


 



“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

100_1750_max50

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 I wholeheartedly agree we should put metal detectors and more law enforcement in EVERY school. Our children need to be kept safe. We live in that kind of world. Cut backs and budgets my hind end. We need our politicians to be more pro active. It should be mandatory. No more excuses! My children and yours deserve to go to school free of fear....

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This incident in Newtown, Conn was very much on my mind as I went to my daughter's school to pick her up at the end of the day.  As these incidents are becoming more and more common, I wonder why it hasn't happened yet where I work as the environment is certainly ripe for such an event to occur.  When we conduct a "Random Search" inevitably we come in contact with the "backyard attorney" errrr, student who believes we are infringing on his rights or we have the disgruntled parent who thinks its fine to search any child so long as it is not hers.  What to do?  How to stop it?  All I can do is go to work every day, be the sheep dog and try to keep my little corner of it as safe as I can given the circumstances at hand.

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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12/15/2012


Bump, DonnaLynn.   To those who want to put this off onto depression, mental illness, etc.  - There are a LOT of depressed, mentally-ill people out there.  Takes a particular personality to load up a firearm and go mow down scores of small children.  I wish he had lived to see Justice hammer down on him.


Snhadley, thanks for the topic. I am pro-2nd Amendment 100%.  I do have problems with the notion of 'psychological testing' for the right to keep and bear.  I am not sure what 'psychological fitness' would mean should our government be taken over by a totalitarian, militant regime.  As far as I am concerned all our Constitutional rights pivot around the the right to keep and bear arms. 


That right is dear.  We have seen what has taken place in countries where the people lack this right.


Having said that, I work in school sites. A fourteen year-old comes in off the street to brandish a hand-gun - we lock down and shelter in place.  Ever tried to shelter in place silently with one wall of windows, broken blinds, children - in clear sight-line - huddled under tables and desks for, say...1/2 hour?  Ever tried to calm tears with your ears pricked up for an intruder? 


Unarmed? 


Ever tried to hush up some kids who would give away a populated room to a stalking intruder?  Yeah, we have heavy doors.  Remember the glass wall? Drills like these take place regularly.  This is what we are teaching our children. Yet have funds been made available for police departments and teachers to confer and to perfect procedures? Not much.  For teachers to defend their classrooms?  Probably none.


When the news broke yesterday, before the facts emerged, I pictured the general lay-out (there is an architectural similarity site-to-site), time of day, what would be scheduled at that time, etc.  You can say I was trying to populate a map.


A map which fills up with those lines to be moved to the staging area.  Cover your eyes, Children. 


WE don't cover our eyes.  At every public school site in this nation, teachers are designated to take positions.  Teachers are designated for the School Morgue.  Every single teacher has a role in what cops call, "The most dangerous workplace in the nation."  And teachers go to work each day knowing that risk.  They go unarmed, except by the grace of their spirits and the drive to make a difference in a child's life.


So maybe the "Sheeple" might consider THAT sacrifice next time the press castigates the ranks of teachers as "slackers" who should be 'brought in line.'


Across our nation, outraged  "Sheeple" demand a way to control the inhuman malice of December, 14th, 2012.  Let the same outraged "Sheeple" also cast their minds back to our not-too-distant past where the bloodied, bruised and starved bodies of children numbered over a million.  At the hand of the Nazis.


I don't know what the solution is, but I know what it is not. 


 


 


 


 

Silver_warrior_max50

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Isn't it interesting that in a free. . . .or as what we have right now, a semi-free society, we want the freedoms to do what we wish. . . until something bad happens and then we want everyone's rights taken away execpt our own.  Why?  Because we are the concientious one and nobody else has the discipline, or respect for life that we have.  Riddle me this, if they can take another person's rights away. . . .how hard would it be take yours away?


I watched an older movie the other night called, "The Minority Report" which seems to be what many of us would like to see.  Punish the bad guys BEFORE they commit the crime.  Unfortunately for those that would like that to happen, we don't have that technology so we currently have a system of only punishing people AFTER the deed has been done. . . .not before.  HOWEVER, since 9/11 we have watched as our freedoms have been eroded at a quickening pace!  To what end?  Do we really want the movie "1984" to become a true reality?  I don't and I don't really think many other Constituionally minded people would either.  Yet, under Presidents Bush and Obama, look at some of the different things that the government has allowed themselves under the Patriot Act. . . . .Indefinite detention WiTHOUT habeas corpus, suspicionless searches of documents and electronic devices of U.S. citizens returning from abroad, certain types of torture (oops, I mean enhanced interrogations), FISA warrantless suveillance of citizen's communications abroad, authorized sneak/peak warrant searches of your home WITHOUT telling you about it and the list goes on and on, so do you really trust that they won't mess with your rights while making life safer for us????  (motherjones.com/politics/2011/09/law-changes-from-9-11)


Remember, the Constitution was SUPPOSED to regulate government. . . . .not us.  YET, when these tradgedies occur, we want government to clamp down on who. . . .us?  Whatever it was that may have been a possible cause of the tradgedy. . . .which is US.  Too bad we don't go after the true killers in our society. . . . .AUTOMOBILES!  Cars kill more people than guns do in these United States of America and more than the wars we have been fighting for the last 10+ years. . . . .yet because cutting back on the use of the automobile could actually affect us personally. . . . .we refuse to do anything about that.  Why is that I wonder.  Because we look at ourselves as the responsible one. . . .right?


In the end, nobody can promise that you will be alive tomorrow. . . .nobody.  Yes, there is evil in this world. . . .we cannot change that, BUT instead of creating a nation of sheep waiting for the shearing, why not arm the teachers in our schools like they do Israel?  Or is there too much logic to that thought?  Instead of spending money on adding police to the schools to create a police state, you create a closed  school system where there are alarms on ALL of the doors, except the main entrances, and the doors stayed lock with teachers monitoring the doors when they aren't teaching.  The entrance doors have "man traps" and only office personnel can open the doors during the course of a school day.  If someone gets stupid, then they get to stay in the man trap until the police arrive.  Bring back corporal punishment for those students that act up beyond a certain point and expulsion when they become uncontrollable.  AND FOR GOD'S SAKE (and ours) DO NOT PASS THOSE STUDENTS THAT CANNOT READ, WRITE OR DO SIMPLE ARITHMETIC!


Let's force the parents to take back responsibility of raising their children instead of the teachers. . . or ultimately the police and finally. . . . .for those people that perform the most heinous acts of brutality against our fellow human beings (with a certain level of witnessing. . .like video or incontrafutable evidence), they get to be publicly executed by hanging, firing squad or maybe even beheadings. . . .YES BEHEADINGS and it is done within a month of the act so it is fresh in the minds of the public!!  Some of these animals are soooo brutal that they don't deserve a nice quiet ending with a needle.  Remember also, that back in the 1800's it was constitutionally legal to hang a horse thief so don't even try to reason with me that hanging is too brutal for a punishment according to the 8th Amendment.


There are a LOT more reasons for the massacres that are happening now and it isn't because of the access to guns, knives or Bic pens. . . .YES, Bic pens are capable of killing someone with the proper knowledge.  We have taken morality out of our schools, responsibilities away from our parents and abilities away from our teachers.  You return just those three things to our schools and while it won't happen overnight, it will start to come back around.

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 Bump to ALL.


Even though I am not in LE (C/O) anymore, I still carry. 


My wife cried for hours after hearing the news. i told her what had happened at the school. My 9 year old daughter came home and saw her mom crying. We sat down with her and told her what had happened. I refuse to "sugar coat" things like that. My daughter needed to know. We also gave her a hug and told her that we love her. 


We need to be extra vigilant when we go anywhere. Whether we are armed or not we need to watch our surroundings and we need to keep our kids, spouses, strangers and others safe from the face of evil. They depend on us to protect them.


As far as the media goes, they really need to stop splattering all this on the news. They also need to stop saying that guns are bad. It is the person that makes the choices not the weapon.


I REFUSE TO LET MYSELF OR ANYONE ELSE BE A VICTIM. It is time to STAND UP and FIGHT BACK>!!!!!!!!!


"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice."~~~~ Allan Arbus, (MASH, Sidney Freedman)

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati..... When All Else Fails, Play Dead~~~ Red Green....

When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on!" (Franklin D Roosevelt).

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Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Beo, you had me up to the beheadings.  lol

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MarlyB says ...



Beo, you had me up to the beheadings.  lol




Sometimes you have to paint outside the lines to make a point.

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 Bump to one and all.

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 Would it be nice to have metal detectors and police officers in every school regardless of size or location, sure, but is it practical especially in the current economic environment, and more importantly will it guarantee the event of yesterday will never happen again, I think not!


Today, all the politicians and news media are making yesterday's event an example of why we need more gun control.  Would more gun control have prevented this incident?  I understand he tried to purchase guns before the incident, but was refused, so gun control worked!  He got/stole the guns from his mom who possessed the guns legally.  Should the mom maybe have secured her guns better from her son, maybe, but we don't know to what extent her son went to in order to take her guns.


Are guns in the hands of lawful citizens really the problem?  One would need to examine the # of crimes committed w/ guns compared to the # of crimes that are prevented because law abiding victims had their guns.  One could look at the old saying of "take away the guns of lawful citizens and you will only have criminals with guns" and then ask which is worse?  Cocaine, heroin, etc. are all outlawed completely, but look at the drug epidemic we have and the ease of getting these drugs!


If the shooter from yesterday could not get a gun, he could have easily went on the Internet and found directions on how to make a chemical or explosive device from items readily available at any hardware store, that could have had even a more devasting effect.


Bottom line is that yesterday's event was very tragic and should be used to start unbiased discussions on a variety of subjects to include armed officers, metal detectors, and other security measures for schools; gun laws; mental health laws and disclosure; etc., but not until after we appropriately grieve the victims from yesterday and not until all the facts from yesterday are gathered and analyzed...


Having the proper Attitude and Mental Preparation combined with proper Training gives you the tools needed to Think, Act, and Be Safe...

100_1750_max50

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 I have to be completely honest. I don't care if the schools look like prisons. It sounds terrible but I just want my girls to come home safe. I hate that most schools in south Florida have open campuses with little to no security. Budget cuts have grossly understaffed our schools. We have top notch security all over the place but no way to secure our most precious resource.

Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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Sorry folks, I was logged on but not at my computer, nor should I had to be.  I posted this poll to start a discussion with and among some of the smartest people I know.  For those who did not understand my original post then please re-read it.  I believe that we are saying the same thing but in different ways except for a couple minor exceptions. 


As far as psychological testing is concerned, I and most other police officers are required to take one and pass it as well as a polygraph examination. My kids are required to show proof of vaccinations to enter school and must have a physical to participate in any sports program,  I hope you get my point on that!


Now, lets get to schools looking like prisons, well I can live with that if it's what it takes to protect our future. Put flowers around the fence or whatever cosmetic application you desire. I'd rather have a bad idea about the architecture of a school then to sit back and do nothing.  Yes, we have many examples of heinous acts at schools, what have we done about it, what have we learned from it? 


As far as the degenerate being known to the people at the school. I as a plain clothes school police detective have to produce id to enter one of my own schools.  Everyone, at a school site does not know me. 


Marly, you are preaching to the choir! I as well as other school cops or those from local jurisdictions assigned to one, have been there and done that numerous times. 


No matter what the economic conditions are money is always an issue, when does the protection of our children become a priority. We spend billions overseas for countries who are our friends today and enemies tomorrow.  For some it becomes a priority when it's their child. 


It's not about what's nice to have, it's about getting our priorities straight! 


 Once again I hold my constitutional right sacred as I hold yours! I don't have all the answers nor do any of us.  However, we have several good ideas to correct this! Let's meet in the middle and try to fix this!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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12/15/12


I don't have an easy answer or quick response for what happened yesterday. All I know is that my heart aches for everyone affected by this evil man's horrendous actions. I only hope that the politicians and those who would seek to capitalize on this to promote whatever agenda they may have will show some respect for those who are grieving this senseless loss. I also hope that the knee-jerk reactions that I am hearing about are tempered by a  willingness to find out all the facts and circumstances surrounding this tragedy. I do believe that if this person had not had access to firearms he would have found another way to commit mass murder. That much is clear to me. 


My other concern is the media reports of his medical condition. I've seen reports attributing his behavior to an Autism diagnosis. This is of great concern to me having a son with Asberger's Syndrome. This animal was obviously PSYCHOTIC and, even if he had a form of Autism, that alone would not have brought him to commit this heinous act. I'm afraid of an additional stygma that will be placed on people with Autism spectrum disorders because of this. I hope this does not occur. 


Finally, I agree whole-heartedly with the following: 


darsavmo says ...



Are guns in the hands of lawful citizens really the problem?  One would need to examine the # of crimes committed w/ guns compared to the # of crimes that are prevented because law abiding victims had their guns.  One could look at the old saying of "take away the guns of lawful citizens and you will only have criminals with guns" and then ask which is worse?  Cocaine, heroin, etc. are all outlawed completely, but look at the drug epidemic we have and the ease of getting these drugs!


If the shooter from yesterday could not get a gun, he could have easily went on the Internet and found directions on how to make a chemical or explosive device from items readily available at any hardware store, that could have had even a more devasting effect.


Bottom line is that yesterday's event was very tragic and should be used to start unbiased discussions on a variety of subjects to include armed officers, metal detectors, and other security measures for schools; gun laws; mental health laws and disclosure; etc., but not until after we appropriately grieve the victims from yesterday and not until all the facts from yesterday are gathered and analyzed...



PL MENTORING TEAM MEMBER

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Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Snhadley, the right to keep and bear arms is a civilian right that should not become encumbered by the State's idea of 'psychological fitness' or 'endangerment to others' more than is currently mandated by law.  The Constitution was framed to cover the risk that the integrity and sovereignty of the State can degenerate.  The Second Amendment is meant as the People's resort. 


If that bothers some people, they can go live in a country over-run by the Taliban.  The Taliban uses pretty stiff parameters too.


Where our police officer's duties are concerned, the right to keep and bear should NEVER be seen as a mere extension of the Second Amendment.  We civilians arm our law enforcement officers to protect our persons and property provided they meet requirements and standards we have deemed appropriate to determine their psychological and physical fitness.  This is to ensure that when our police officers have to witness on behalf of the State in a court of law, the State can be reasonably confident in their testimony.  Determining the necessary use of deadly force is a case in point.  As a police officer, that decision may be in the scope of your work day - throughout your years of service.  I don't want you killing unnecessarily on my behalf.  So I will test the daylights out of you.


So...the Civilian/State-Imposed duty to carry arms is not the same as the civilian's right to bear.  I want you to make a quick assessment during a call.  I need to protect my turf.  My 'turf' may extend beyond my home's curtilage if the borders of my country are over-run. 


That, my friend, is the critical diff.  And no, I am not preaching to the choir because you are a detective in my local schools.  I am standing on the other side of the line.  Watching both our backs.


lol


And by the way, thank you for your service to our country, USMC.

Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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MarlyB says ...



Snhadley, the right to keep and bear arms is a civilian right that should not become encumbered by the State's idea of 'psychological fitness' or 'endangerment to others' more than is currently mandated by law.  The Constitution was framed to cover the risk that the integrity and sovereignty of the State can degenerate.  The Second Amendment is meant as the People's resort. 


If that bothers some people, they can go live in a country over-run by the Taliban.  The Taliban uses pretty stiff parameters too.


Where our police officer's duties are concerned, the right to keep and bear should NEVER be seen as a mere extension of the Second Amendment.  We civilians arm our law enforcement officers to protect our persons and property provided they meet requirements and standards we have deemed appropriate to determine their psychological and physical fitness.  This is to ensure that when our police officers have to witness on behalf of the State in a court of law, the State can be reasonably confident in their testimony.  Determining the necessary use of deadly force is a case in point.  As a police officer, that decision may be in the scope of your work day - throughout your years of service.  I don't want you killing unnecessarily on my behalf.  So I will test the daylights out of you.


The duty to carry arms is not the same as the right to bear.  You need to make a quick assessment during a call.  I need to protect my turf.  My 'turf' may extend beyond my curtilage if the borders of my country are over-run. 


That, my friend, is the critical diff.  And no, I am not preaching to the choir because you are a detective in my local schools.  I am standing on the other side of the line.  Watching both our backs.


lol



Thanks for having my back as I have yours, but the post is "America and guns in the hands who should not have them!" Emphasis on SHOULD NOT! Not the 2nd amendment.


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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If you call for psychological testing as a pre-requisite to purchase, own, or keep an otherwise legally-possessed firearm, the Second Amendment comes directly into play. 


I will respectfully bow out of this conversation now.

Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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MarlyB says ...



If you call for psychological testing as a pre-requisite to purchase, own, or keep an otherwise legally-possessed firearm, the Second Amendment comes directly into play. 


I will respectfully bow out of this conversation now.



I don't know what the answer is but I do know we need to do something! There are 27 amendment's to the constitution and the amendment to the 2nd was and is needed. 


I value your opinion and a healthy discussion brings about meaningful change.


Also, on-duty is on duty and off duty I am a civilian just as you are.  I must possess a concealed weapons permit to carry my firearm concealed.  Unless, granted by my Chief/Sheriff to carry concealed. An excerpt from that application states:  


 Who Is Eligible To Be Licensed? A person who meets the following minimum eligibility requirements can obtain a license:


•You must be a United States citizen or a  permanent legal resident alien.


• You must currently reside in the United  States.


•You must be 21 years of age or older.


•You must be able to demonstrate competency  with a firearm.


Who Is NOT Eligible? There are several disqualifying conditions that will result in the ineligibility of the applicant and the denial of the application. Possible reasons for denial include the following:


• The physical inability to handle a firearm safely.


•A felony conviction (unless civil and firearm  rights have been restored by the convicting authority).

 


• Having adjudication withheld or sentence  suspended on a felony or misdemeanor crime of violence unless three years have elapsed since probation or other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled.


•A conviction for a violent crime in the last  three years, either misdemeanor or felony.


• A conviction for violation of controlled  substance laws or multiple arrests for such offenses.


•A record of drug or alcohol abuse.


• Two or more DUI convictions within the  previous 3 years.


Being committed to a mental institution or  adjudged incompetent or mentally defective.


•Failing to provide proof of proficiency with a  firearm.


• Having been issued a domestic violence  injunction or an injunction against repeat violence that is currently in force.


•Renunciation of U.S. citizenship.


• A dishonorable discharge from the armed  forces.


•Being a fugitive from justice. 


.There are plenty of rules that only require checking a box on an application with no vetting of the applicant!


These rules/laws are in place and are followed by law abiding citizens who are not the problem! 


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

Silver_warrior_max50

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Calling for psychological testing. . . . .hmmm, in Michigan (as they probably do in many other states) they already have in place a means of placing someone on a list to prohibit them from obtaining a gun (legally) if a judge orders the ban due to a PROVEN mental instability.  Who determines that?  A court ordered test due to documented "issues" brought before a judge.  Once on that list, a message will come up whenever that name is run by either a police officer. . . .or (hopefully) a gun sales business.


Domestic Violence Offenders (Federal law) along with Stalking Restraining Orders (Personal Protection Orders, PPO, in Michigan) are also prohibited from POSSESSING firearms.


If you go back to the beginning of the Constitution and read not only The Federalist Papers (written by Hamilton, Madison and Jay) along with the concerns of the States deciding if they wanted to "join" the Union or not (yes, there was a good chance that they would not), you will get a much better understanding of the REASONS things came about.  In short, there weren't just 10 Amendments to the Constitution originally. . . .there were 12.  These Amendments were what the states DEMANDED before they would consider signing.  The TRUE first 2 potential amendments written, but not approved of dealt with apportionment of Representatives and the pay Congress receives, while it could be altered, it would not take place until after the next election.


The States that were deciding on whether they were going to "join" the union wanted to make sure that a revolution would not be needed to correct the government and thus, the Amendments to the Constitution to LIMIT the federal government's power over them.  One of those was the 2nd Ratified Amendment. . . . .they wanted to make sure that if the federal government started running roughshod over them, then they could leave the union.  If, as England enforced their superiority over the colonies, the new federal government did not allow them to leave. . . . .then they wanted the ability to do it by force.  Thus, they would need to have access to the weapons that their citizens possessed, since the citizenry would be the ones fighting for their freedoms.  Also, look to a soldiers oath of office, ". . . .to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from enemies BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. . . . ".  There has always been a potential that the enemy would be found within and how do we defend ourselves from that enemy?


As for registration. . . . . .LOOK BACK TO THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!  As recently as World War II, the country of NORWAY had gun registration.  When Hitler came into Norway, he went STRAIGHT to the government houses to retrieve the papers (registration) of ALL of the gun owners in the country.  That way, he only had to go to those that possessed the guns and take them.  Why fight the whole country when you can go straight to your resistance and remove it!


No, the 2nd Amendment was meant as a final means of keeping OUR government in check. . . .if it came to it.  As for the registration, riddle me this. . . . .why pester the lawful when the unlawful are going to screw the system anyways????  Nicole Brown Simpson would be alive today if there were no guns. . . .right?  OH WAIT, O.J. killed her by shooting knives at her!


Finally, why have this conversation over guns when automobiles kill more people than guns.  Is it because IF we personally find ourselves the driver of a vehicle that kills someone because we are drunk or driving stupidly. . . . .we want to keep our automobile AND our freedom. . . .because it was an accident?  Trust me, the only accidents the State of Michigan allowed for were vehicle versus animals.  ALL of the other wrecks were called crashes because SOMEONE was responsible because they were traveling too fast or not paying attention or just being stupid in a no stupid zone, but they were NO accidents.  No. . . .we get used to people getting mutilated and killed by automobiles, but putting restrictions on gun ownership is nothing more than insuring someone's control over their position (i.e. government officials) or over the peones like us.

Silver_warrior_max50

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Also. . . . .since Roe versus Wade. . . .and Obama care have deemed abortion (the murder of life that is incapable of defending itself) a "right" that when Obama care becomes full and in effect that I will be required to pay for some bimbo's abortion, i.e. promised to be taken care of or "supplied" by the state, mind you that "right" is not enumerated in the Constitution, but the "right" to keep and bare arms IS. . . . . .where is my free gun from the government????

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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(flounces back in)


But seriously, Beowulf, where do you really stand on the subject??


(flounces back out)

Wredcedar_max50

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The problem will never be solved as long as we blame the tools, not the tool weilder.  I think the problm really startedabout 30+ or so years ago, I think when the ACLU and the judicial system decided that mentally challanged (PC) or nut jobs (my description) shouldn't be forcefully institualized but should be free to live in society at large.  Far fewer mental institutions than in 1950 but far nore killings by nut jobs, and not all with firearms. JMO

Giu-turkey-distribution-004-801_max50

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Beowulf_7 says ...



Calling for psychological testing. . . . .hmmm, in Michigan (as they probably do in many other states) they already have in place a means of placing someone on a list to prohibit them from obtaining a gun (legally) if a judge orders the ban due to a PROVEN mental instability.  Who determines that?  A court ordered test due to documented "issues" brought before a judge.  Once on that list, a message will come up whenever that name is run by either a police officer. . . .or (hopefully) a gun sales business.


Domestic Violence Offenders (Federal law) along with Stalking Restraining Orders (Personal Protection Orders, PPO, in Michigan) are also prohibited from POSSESSING firearms.


If you go back to the beginning of the Constitution and read not only The Federalist Papers (written by Hamilton, Madison and Jay) along with the concerns of the States deciding if they wanted to "join" the Union or not (yes, there was a good chance that they would not), you will get a much better understanding of the REASONS things came about.  In short, there weren't just 10 Amendments to the Constitution originally. . . .there were 12.  These Amendments were what the states DEMANDED before they would consider signing.  The TRUE first 2 potential amendments written, but not approved of dealt with apportionment of Representatives and the pay Congress receives, while it could be altered, it would not take place until after the next election.


The States that were deciding on whether they were going to "join" the union wanted to make sure that a revolution would not be needed to correct the government and thus, the Amendments to the Constitution to LIMIT the federal government's power over them.  One of those was the 2nd Ratified Amendment. . . . .they wanted to make sure that if the federal government started running roughshod over them, then they could leave the union.  If, as England enforced their superiority over the colonies, the new federal government did not allow them to leave. . . . .then they wanted the ability to do it by force.  Thus, they would need to have access to the weapons that their citizens possessed, since the citizenry would be the ones fighting for their freedoms.  Also, look to a soldiers oath of office, ". . . .to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from enemies BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. . . . ".  There has always been a potential that the enemy would be found within and how do we defend ourselves from that enemy?


As for registration. . . . . .LOOK BACK TO THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!  As recently as World War II, the country of NORWAY had gun registration.  When Hitler came into Norway, he went STRAIGHT to the government houses to retrieve the papers (registration) of ALL of the gun owners in the country.  That way, he only had to go to those that possessed the guns and take them.  Why fight the whole country when you can go straight to your resistance and remove it!


No, the 2nd Amendment was meant as a final means of keeping OUR government in check. . . .if it came to it.  As for the registration, riddle me this. . . . .why pester the lawful when the unlawful are going to screw the system anyways????  Nicole Brown Simpson would be alive today if there were no guns. . . .right?  OH WAIT, O.J. killed her by shooting knives at her!


Finally, why have this conversation over guns when automobiles kill more people than guns.  Is it because IF we personally find ourselves the driver of a vehicle that kills someone because we are drunk or driving stupidly. . . . .we want to keep our automobile AND our freedom. . . .because it was an accident?  Trust me, the only accidents the State of Michigan allowed for were vehicle versus animals.  ALL of the other wrecks were called crashes because SOMEONE was responsible because they were traveling too fast or not paying attention or just being stupid in a no stupid zone, but they were NO accidents.  No. . . .we get used to people getting mutilated and killed by automobiles, but putting restrictions on gun ownership is nothing more than insuring someone's control over their position (i.e. government officials) or over the peones like us.



Agreed!  My question is what can we do if anything to address this issue! I have not watched the news since yesterday! The media feeds on these issues and gives these scum a platform to encourage others to do the next heinous thing!


“The real reason that we can’t have the Ten Commandments in a courthouse: You cannot post “Thou shalt not steal,” “Thou shalt not commit adultery,” and “Thou shalt not lie” in a building full of lawyers, judges, and politicians. It creates a hostile work environment.”

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