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Militarized??

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Colts_max50

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Posted about 2 years ago

 

Ive been on youtube and people have been talking about how the pentagon has been paying millions of dollars to militarize law


enforcement. Now can someone further explain this, because you have to admit Police departments do look more favorably on former


military personel, which I believe is unfair I know that they have expierence in training with firearms and first aid, but you join the police


academy for that training. So....wouldnt you want a candidate who is more fluent in current laws than someone who has been away


from the US for 2 to 4 years??

Eagle_and_flag_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

You saw this on YouTube, and you believe it?? You're kidding, right?


Law Enforcement does like military personnel, because they are familiar with a rank structure and have a sense of pride in Uniform, God and Country. But then again, Police Departments hire the most qualified applicants, whether they are Military or not. Not all Military Personnel have been away from the US for 2-4 years, and even those that have been, are still subject to and understand US Laws.


Pentagon spending money to Militarize Law Enforcement? Very Doubtful!


jmo


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White_shirt_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

If you believe the crud on You Tube, I have some swamp land I wish to sell you. I echo 36TR. I assume you have been outshined by military applicants. Please enlighten us. While chief I only wished all applicants had served in the military.

2012-09-24_22-41-56_408_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

If you honestly believe that your time in the acadamy can equal the experience that someone gets by GIVING years of their life to the military..... I just dont know how to react to that....


There is alot more to it than firearms and first aid training.


Most military members these days have seen actual combat. many, close combat. They can say how they would react in a shoot- no shoot situation, becasue they have been there. They have spent YEARS away from their loved ones, so probably would not complain about a few long shifts. They have worked within a strict rank structure already. They respect authority, and understand it. They have leadership training, and have often held the very lives of their co workers in their hands, and entrusted theirs to others. 


Man....I really dont know what else to say.....


In a world where there are Sheep and Wolves,
I am the Sheepdog.
Ranger Up!

I am NOT a hero
but I know a few

Texas02n_max600_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the brightest buld in the box but I thought youtube was for entertainment purposes and not for educational purposes, Why would someone base their belief system on an entertainment service?


"Niether fire nor wind, birth nor death can erase our good deeds." Buddha

Rafngreenblack_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

Scjohnk says ...



If you honestly believe that your time in the acadamy can equal the experience that someone gets by GIVING years of their life to the military..... I just dont know how to react to that....


There is alot more to it than firearms and first aid training.


Most military members these days have seen actual combat. many, close combat. They can say how they would react in a shoot- no shoot situation, becasue they have been there. They have spent YEARS away from their loved ones, so probably would not complain about a few long shifts. They have worked within a strict rank structure already. They respect authority, and understand it. They have leadership training, and have often held the very lives of their co workers in their hands, and entrusted theirs to others. 


Man....I really dont know what else to say.....



Yep, what he said....

Rafngreenblack_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

And don't forget they're generally in good physical shape, and haven't spent the last 3-4 yrs being douche-bags. There's a big difference in maturity between someone who knows the meaning of true sacrifice and a punk whose idea of a rough day is a hangover after a frat party.

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

Huge bumps to MH557 and Scjohnk.There is a reason why law enforcement is known as a semi military organization.If you have been in the service you have laready learned many "Life Lessons" which will guide you forever as well as preparing for a career in a law enforcement  agency.The military doesn't accept wimps,cry babies,dullards etc. nor does law enforcement agencies.It teaches you the difference between right and wrong and sees to it that you walk the straight and narrow,as does law enforcement agencies.I don't have any inkling about the Pentagon militarizing law enforcement,but if it is,is this necessarily a terrible thing.I repeat myself,they are already a semi-military organization.I'm definately NOT ashamed of my service record.

1979_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

The reason why they are looked upon more favorably is simple, they have learned disapline and a work ethic. They know how to follow orders from someone who ranks above them and therefore more experienced and knowledgeable than he is. They are just much more mature as they know how to live by themselves, maintain a neat and clean appearance, and tons of other things that the military instills into the men and women that enter. It also instills in them a sense of duty and honor and commitment and pride in service of one's country and it's people. Heck man, I could go on and on but you should get the idea.

Silver_warrior_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

WOW is about all I can say to this thread.  While the military is good at teaching many things and has made men out of many boys. . . .the broad brush by which everyone here has painted the military and those that chose not to enlist is VERY enlightening about those manipulating that brush.  While I wouldn't think of painting EVERY miitary person to be as disciplined as those that were working the jail at Abu Ghraib (you know, the ones that EMBARRASSED us in front of the entire world). . . .I am also disgusted by those that have been (or still are) that paint everyone else that has not spent time in the military as. . . .how was that said?  Oh yeah. . . . .


"And don't forget they're generally in good physical shape, and haven't spent the last 3-4 yrs being douche-bags.   There's a big difference in maturity between someone who knows the meaning of true sacrifice and a punk whose idea of a rough day is a hangover after a frat party."


While I would like to think that this was not meant as a slam to those of us that chose not to enlist because I know MANY people that chose not to enlist that know the meaning of true sacrifice. . . . .and many that were in the military that believe that a rough day is that hangover after an all night binge!  The only thing I can suggest is that not everyone that did not serve is a puke or douche' bag and not everyone that DID serve is a God among men.  It might behoove all of us to paint with a smaller brush.


I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

John Bernard Books, from "The Shootist"

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Well,I proudly did both.It was with my G.I. Bill that I earned two college degrees,but I never was the Frat Boy douche bag.Thank God no frat wanted me because I wasn't the son of a family of efite ,spoiled ,wealthy snobs.Still though I suffered through hang overs in both the Army and college.I believe I learned just every bit as much in my Army enlistment as I did in college and didn't join any group of campus radicals throwing bottles and egg at cops,but,as an officer had bottles,rocks eggs and bags of urine thrown at me by college students,protesting Viet Nam. 

Vpsomourningband_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

Well said guys! 


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Th_policeavatar_2__max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

I can't do  any better than the responses already given, adding that we are "para-military" in structure. That said, if you  are the type of individual to believe evrything you  WANT to believe you  are not the material we are looking for.


""Life is a storm.. You will bask in the sunlight one moment, be shattered on the rocks the next. What makes you a man is what you do when that storm comes"
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2012-09-24_22-41-56_408_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 2 years ago

 

Beowulf_7 says ...



 While I wouldn't think of painting EVERY miitary person to be as disciplined as those that were working the jail at Abu Ghraib (you know, the ones that EMBARRASSED us in front of the entire world). . . .



Those Mps involved with the problems at Abu Ghraib.... yeah they were reservists. The most serious offenders.....Were full time Civilian Correctional Officers, and only part time Soldiers.


I'm certainly not saying that those who chose NOT to enlist are not excellent Police Officers. I said nothing of the sort. I do feel that having been enlisted does give you a certain advantage over your peers in applying for the position, and it should. Mostly because we are already experienced in a simular type organizational structure.


As a Military Police Noncomissioned Officer, I can tell you that we have just as many disciplinary problems within our ranks, as the community we draw our ranks from. We have all the same crimes as any other medium size city. Most of these crimes are comitted by Soldiers or their family members. So the paintbrush is wide both ways.


A Soldier ending his service and wanting to join Law Enforcement is probaably not one of our disciplinary problems and would generally fall on the other side of the fence. This is not always the case, but more times than not.


In my case, I've spent 21 years in Active Duty. I'll be retiring next year. Military Retirement is not enough to live on, not even close. it is intended to somewhat make up for the difference in pay that I would have recieved, had I spent those years advancing in a civilian organization. The toll it has taken on my body is extreme. Physically, I am unsure if I would be able to handle the stressors placed on me by returning to rookie patrolman status. It is a very real possibility that I will be unable to gain employment in a civilian Police Dept after retirement due to several of my physical ailments.


Had I been a civilian all these years, I probably would not be walking with a limp, I probably would have a straight back and not live with pain every minute of every day. I probably would have 12 more inches of my colon that I left in an operating room overseas. I have sacrificed my health, my family, and the best years of my life. You can be certain that I will expect some type of vet's preference, when I am trying to transition to civilian life, post Military retirement. I don't think it's asking too much.


 


In a world where there are Sheep and Wolves,
I am the Sheepdog.
Ranger Up!

I am NOT a hero
but I know a few

Bronzestarribbon_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

Militarization of Law Enforcement with respect to LE the establishment of chains of command and a rank structure, hence it's paramilitary. Often weapons and surviellance systems that law enforcement is using are programs or equipment that was initially manufactured for a military use and purpose. LE is at times and in certain areas getting like military operations. Border Patrol, SWAT, Under cover ops are all LEO, but have a basis or training that was designed for or by the military forces for clandestine operations.

Militarization of Law enforcement refers to technology and weapons platforms, training, as well as a structured management of resources and personnel. I don't believe we will be having our federal law enforcement run by or being an arm of the military any time soon. Paramilitary is just a disciplined and structured management tool for government entities at Federal, State and local levels. Just my 2 cents...

Rafngreenblack_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

Beowulf_7 says ...



WOW is about all I can say to this thread.  While the military is good at teaching many things and has made men out of many boys. . . .the broad brush by which everyone here has painted the military and those that chose not to enlist is VERY enlightening about those manipulating that brush.  While I wouldn't think of painting EVERY miitary person to be as disciplined as those that were working the jail at Abu Ghraib (you know, the ones that EMBARRASSED us in front of the entire world). . . .I am also disgusted by those that have been (or still are) that paint everyone else that has not spent time in the military as. . . .how was that said?  Oh yeah. . . . .


"And don't forget they're generally in good physical shape, and haven't spent the last 3-4 yrs being douche-bags.   There's a big difference in maturity between someone who knows the meaning of true sacrifice and a punk whose idea of a rough day is a hangover after a frat party."


While I would like to think that this was not meant as a slam to those of us that chose not to enlist because I know MANY people that chose not to enlist that know the meaning of true sacrifice. . . . .and many that were in the military that believe that a rough day is that hangover after an all night binge!  The only thing I can suggest is that not everyone that did not serve is a puke or douche' bag and not everyone that DID serve is a God among men.  It might behoove all of us to paint with a smaller brush.



First of all, I hate painting. So I'm not "manipulating" a paint brush of any kind, figuratively or literally. Secondly, if you're going to express your disgust over my quote, at least credit me with the post and address me accordingly. With that said, let me attempt to clarify my statement. We'll take this step by step....


<snip> And don't forget, they're generally in good physical shape <snip> I don't see how this is an arguable point. 


<snip> and haven't spent the last 3-4yrs being douche-bags <snip> That was meant to address the abundance of threads posted inquiring if prior drug usage, criminal records, etc. will DQ an applicant from LE.  I agree there are exceptions and the military has its fair share of knuckleheads. This was not a blanket statement that all those with no military background (including myself) are douche-bags.


<snip> There's a big difference in maturity between someone who knows the meaning of true sacrifice and a punk whose idea of a rough day is a hangover after a frat party. <snip>  Think back on the numerous threads of applicants almost demanding they're entitled to a LE career because they devoted the last 2 yrs of their life to acquiring an AS CJ degree. Then re-read through Scjohnk's last post. That was the sacrifice mentality I was referring to.


None of this was meant as a "slam" to anyone without a military background. I personally have not served in the military either. Nor was it intended to portray military service members as a "god among men." It appears this thread, and my post in particular, may have touched a nerve with you. This is unfortunate, and I certainly hope it isn't a result of an underlying resentment or hostility toward our service men and women. 


In the end, we're all entitled to our opinions and I respect you and yours. Be safe.....

Hs_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

I will just say consider the source...


As for military or para-military. Law enforcement has an element of para-military to it in how they operate as a team. But to say our police force is militarized is a bit of an exhageration I think. I have not seen an officer patrolling the streets in full tactical gear yet (riots and protests excluded). Some neighborhoods I think it's almost a job requirement.


As for who makes a better officer... well it all boils down to character in the end doesn't it? I wouldn't expect LE to take a crappy soldier over an honorable civilian. And conversely I wouldn't expect a crappy civilian to be selected over an honorable soldier.


Now if you take two equally qualified people with clean records but you only get to select one I could see the military being picked first for tax and preferential status. They've earned it.


Funny how the only enumerated right that contains the phrase "shall not be infringed" suffers the heaviest regulation. I'm still trying to find where it says anything about hunting and targets.

White_shirt_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

SlowMotion. I am going to challenge you on your last statement. Have you ever been a cop and if so were you part of the hiring process? I have been. Even though one applicant has military experience and the other does not. does not make the former military applicant a shoe in. Even though my earlier comment was I would like all applicants to be former military it does not give them an edge. You are getting way ahead of yourself. I also disagree that military personnel has earned a position over a non military applicant.

Wredcedar_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

Some, but not all, agencies will give veterans preference points (usually 5) on the written exam, ie if you score 88 your adjusted score is 93.  While higher is better on the written, other parts of the hiring process, especially the oral board part, play a much more important role in who is hired.  Think federal is different, but don't know about them.

Hs_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

uncledennis1 says ...



SlowMotion. I am going to challenge you on your last statement. Have you ever been a cop and if so were you part of the hiring process? I have been. Even though one applicant has military experience and the other does not. does not make the former military applicant a shoe in. Even though my earlier comment was I would like all applicants to be former military it does not give them an edge. You are getting way ahead of yourself. I also disagree that military personnel has earned a position over a non military applicant.



Show me where I said they were a "shoe in". Double check to make sure. I only said that I could see their service as a benefit to the process. Some places it may be some places not. I can say it does help with private employers but we aren't talking about them.


As for "they've earned it". That's personal opinion and should be viewed as such. I'm not the one doing the hiring.


Funny how the only enumerated right that contains the phrase "shall not be infringed" suffers the heaviest regulation. I'm still trying to find where it says anything about hunting and targets.

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

Militarized? I would say sure and here is why. There are situations in which you should use certain tactics to which if you have not been trained in then you should be. Weapons and tactics? If you're not part of certain teams then perhaps you do not employ the weapons however you really should employ certain tactics. Keeping your head on a swivel and keeping your eyes open, especially during certain high-risk warrant services should be a no-brainer however you would be surprised as to how complacent people can get. Preferential hiring of honorably discharged former military? In my opinion absolutely yes! I don't think MH557 was denigrating any certain group of people when he stated what he did. I never served in the military and do not take offense. We ARE paramilitary in nature.....rank structure, certain disciplines, PT, etc. If you do not understand that before attempting to enter this field then you may be in for a bit of a shock. Scjohnk, if you have questions in reference to NC's basic school feel free to PM. I am pretty certain you have the WHEREWITHAL to compete, pass, and find a job in civilian law enforcement. Notice I said WHEREWITHAL because a lot of this is physical yes, but it takes a butt ton of heart to make it through. Surviving 21 years of active duty HONORABLY says a lot of a person's character and simply glows on a resume'. My .02


You can't cure stupid.