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Are we not a Brother Hood anymore?

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Posted about 2 years ago

 

I have traveled around the states in the lower half of this country for several years. When I got into law enforcement some 17 yrs ago you could go to other places and meet oher brothers and sisters in blue and make a bound. But in the past few years in my travels i have, or think I have noticed a change in this area. I have had the occasion to meet some officers in other departments and get the feeling the would soon not talk to me or they ashamed to be in the law enforcement field. If you walk up to them and interduce yourself to them, treat you as if your a scurge. I think those need to rethink their attitude, because as for me my brothers and sisters are family! I always want to know if there is officers near around even if they are in plane clothes or in my area just to visit. If need info or direction or just want to general stuff about the area I would gladly help them out. Also if the crap hits the fan I know I have help! I Hope. Am I wrong or do others see this.

White_shirt_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

You are so correct. It is not the close family it once was. I am so disappointed the turn it has taken. I attended the NYPD graduation June 2007 and rode with a couple of officers in a marked unit. I was introduced at roll call as a retired chief. I felt so welcome as the officers introduced themselves and made me feel I was family. I have also come in contact with local officers who acted like I was bothering them.

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

I do agree with this.  The close knit family feeling that was apparent when I started back in the 70's is not what it once was and I'm not sure where things began to falter.  I can safely say that those LEO's that have been around for a while still put forth this connection but I have found it lacking in the newer LEO's.  Sad state of affairs, more so since there is generally only other LEO's that one can count on in times of need or trouble.  I have found more of a bond/support coming from our civilian friends that support us in any way they can and I am grateful for that support.

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Rated +1 | Posted about 2 years ago

 

I honestly can't say I've experienced a major change. I've met up with Officers in several states while traveling on the motorcycle, and have always had a pleasant experience; well except for once. With that one time, we chatted for a few minutes but I got the feeling he would rather I moved on. It didn't really offend me. It was hot outside, he was parked under a shade tree and he had paperwork on his clipboard in front of him. So after chatting for a bit, I headed out.


I will say I've always had a great experience when meeting up with my PL Family!!!


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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

I agree, we have lost that loving feeling in this profession.  It's the new breed of officers.  I have a few horror stories of our now at times disfunctional family.  PL in general has not had that problem, except for a couple LEO's here and there that are problem from the new breed. 

Th_policeavatar_2__max50

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Rated +7 | Posted about 2 years ago

 

Rookies want the glamour and no grunt work. The COPS tv generation, and the lowering of  standards.


""Life is a storm.. You will bask in the sunlight one moment, be shattered on the rocks the next. What makes you a man is what you do when that storm comes"
Alexander Dumas-The Count of Monte Christo

Untitledma28839986-0002_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 2 years ago

 

Bump SGT405.

Quickley-b240_max50

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Rated +2 | Posted about 2 years ago

 

SGT405 says ...



Rookies want the glamour and no grunt work. The COPS tv generation, and the lowering of  standards.



Al, I think you hit it on the head. The newer LEOs seem to be in it for the money and not for the same reasons you and I joined. I have seen more of the brotherhood distancing themselfs until a tragedy hits.


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing." Dante

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Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

I am sad to learn this.  It sounds like the vanishing of small town values in a way.  Like...the fraternal bonding itself creates a "town."  I can't really explain my idea about that.


Of course, as a civilian, I can say I observe a sort of distance from civilians on a regular basis.  There are practical reasons for that.  Nature of the job for a lot of cops. 


It bothers me to see a general complaint about a drop in fraternal bonding.


Is it partly contributed by a new breed of rooks who are more distant, as Sgt405 indicates?  Sometimes I wonder if a generation of military coming from this particular theater of war bonds differently than their predecessors??  


Come to think of it...aren't those 20-30 bonding completely differently in general? 


I would be interested to know if female officers among themselves also encounter the distance you describe here.  This is a very good topic.  By the way, my brother is a trucker and he complains of a similar drop in fraternity.  For what it's worth.

Bronzestarribbon_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

I have not travelled real recently, but during my military travels to other states I always ran into officers from various agency's and upon the introduction was treated and welcomed with enthusiasm, that is when I would trade LEO items.

I have had a few pass through my area and I always greet them with kindness and enjoy a good conversation. Rest assured if any of you brothers and sisters are in my area and I know you are here I send out a standing invitation for at least a lousy cup of coffee.

My last trip I ran into a Sheriff's Sergeant in Arkansas, outside of Little Rock and he was a stand up fellow and we conversed for a brief time. Very professional and friendly gentleman. I hope the more violent times we live in have not soured fellow LEO's about striking up conversation, but it may have? All we can do is pledge that we will not brush off our "family" members, especially in a time of need...

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

I am sad as well to hear this; however, It does seem to be the trend in the general populace as well.


Doc


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Troll Hunter, "Doc", LEO Supporter.
It's not the falling down, it's the staying down.

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

I feel there is much less of a brotherhood than in the past as well.  It seems like cliques have replaced an overall brotherhood, and there is a lot more of 'my agency is better than your agency'  today.

Imag0103_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

I think you hit it on the head Cedardale.  The "elitism" of one agency to another has caused that seperation. 

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

Indeed I have to bump my friends en re this subject..I was an officer and Deputy from 1966 through 1993 and there has been a distinct change.As headbrer indicated it appears they reflect the attitude of the general public.There no longer seems to be the pride in the meaning of the badge or the dedication to preserve the rights and freedoms for all,especially the downtrodden.

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Rated +1 | Posted about 2 years ago

 

SGT405 says ...



Rookies want the glamour and no grunt work. The COPS tv generation, and the lowering of  standards.



 


As a rookie, I can say with great confidence that I DO NOT fall in to the above category. 


I LOVE my job


I LOVE giving 100%


I RESPECT tradition and rank


I definately agree that some of the "new way" of thinking is a sad departure from the traditional approach to law enforcement, but I wonder if the rookies are really 100% to blame.  There has been a dramatic shift in how the public sees its law enforcement, how the courts interpret law enforcement decisions and how law enforcement must respond in accordance with these changes.  I think many in law enforcement are running scared because they are afraid of impending consequences if they say/do something that is construed as "off color".  I think this has had a negative affect on moral amongst many in law enforcement, especially those who have been around long enough to see the change before their eyes. 


Additionally, the poor economy has to have some affect (layoffs, lack of raises/promotions, cuts in pay/rank).


I hear about how things were and I wish I had become an officer years ago.  However, I am still proud to be an officer and I will continue to be until the day I die.  And I am quite confident that when the you-know-what hits the fan, differences are going to be cast aside.


 


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Quickley-b240_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

gn13 says ...



SGT405 says ...



Rookies want the glamour and no grunt work. The COPS tv generation, and the lowering of  standards.



 


As a rookie, I can say with great confidence that I DO NOT fall in to the above category. 


I LOVE my job


I LOVE giving 100%


I RESPECT tradition and rank


Snip:

While I tend to agree with much of what you say I don't think that we are talking about the general public here,  it is about OUR brotherhood. I also don't want all to think we are lumping all newer LEOs in that catagory


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing." Dante

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Rated +2 | Posted about 2 years ago

 

bill9823 says ...



SGT405 says ...



Rookies want the glamour and no grunt work. The COPS tv generation, and the lowering of  standards.



Al, I think you hit it on the head. The newer LEOs seem to be in it for the money and not for the same reasons you and I joined. I have seen more of the brotherhood distancing themselfs until a tragedy hits.



You both nailed it.


Hello my name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die.

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Rcsd04_max600_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

After reading the post here and thinking about it for a while and my encounters with other leo's, I have to agree that something has changed. Gladly enough my department does not have this problem with its own officers and the departments surrounding the county. We are always there for them and they are always there for us, even if it maybe a little out of there jurisdiction. But then I have ran into officers where just like the rest of you, they'd rather write a ten page report then to talk to you or be dealing with you. 


My opinon of the problem is that a lot of officers that are out doing the job are just their for the money or its a better pay check then what they were making. Also as we see on PL a lot post about people that are going through college and have no idea what to do for a career or want a career change and think police work would be a good job and just want to test it out. Its not a job they have wanted to do since they were a kid. To them and lot others its just a job, I get paid, somewhat decent benefits, and a retirement. And tipically those are the ones that just want to come to work, do nothing, and go home. 


I love to talk to any deputy/trooper/officer that I come in contact with. Even if its just a short hello, how's your week, be safe brother. 


You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

MarlyB says ...



I am sad to learn this.  It sounds like the vanishing of small town values in a way.  Like...the fraternal bonding itself creates a "town."  I can't really explain my idea about that.


Of course, as a civilian, I can say I observe a sort of distance from civilians on a regular basis.  There are practical reasons for that.  Nature of the job for a lot of cops. 


It bothers me to see a general complaint about a drop in fraternal bonding.


Is it partly contributed by a new breed of rooks who are more distant, as Sgt405 indicates?  Sometimes I wonder if a generation of military coming from this particular theater of war bonds differently than their predecessors??  


Come to think of it...aren't those 20-30 bonding completely differently in general? 


I would be interested to know if female officers among themselves also encounter the distance you describe here.  This is a very good topic.  By the way, my brother is a trucker and he complains of a similar drop in fraternity.  For what it's worth.



Will agree 100%. Everybody is out for themselves in general. Just the degridation of society I guess. It's all about ME ME ME!!!~  Now where's my paycheck?


Funny how the only enumerated right that contains the phrase "shall not be infringed" suffers the heaviest regulation. I'm still trying to find where it says anything about hunting and targets.

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

I work for a small Dept. 7 Sworn Officers including the Sheriff and Undersheriff, with 3 Reserve Deputies for a total of 10. Yeah I can add. LOL I have been to bigger agencies and when I attempt to converse with some of the Officers they act like you don't exsist. They blow you off like so much dust. But what thye do not realise is that us from smaller agencies can and do have more training in different areas and we also are the swat teams and do all the evidence collection. We are a more diverse group of Officers and we do a darn good job. So yeah I love to visit with out of state and town Officers both retired and active. So if you come thorugh my area stop by and we can swap war stories.    


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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

 The best Comaradere I experienced was in Atlanta back in the late 90s. All the cops there were very friendly towards each other, helpful, and looked out for one another. This was something I did not experience in texas. Here in NC, it's pretty good, but nothing like it was back in the ATL.


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Ranger Up!

I am NOT a hero
but I know a few

Me_2_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

It almost seems like there is a general level of cynicism that exists society wide due to the general economic issues at play, the ongoing conflicts, or both. These factors have obviously begun to affect our profession as well. I think that this has caused many officers to become mistrustful of almost everyone and has caused some of the cooling in camaraderie. Perhaps in these trying times if each one of us tries to help foster the bonds and trust of the Brotherhood as it was, then we will be able to all shoulder the burdens of our duty a little more easily down the road.

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

bill9823 says ...



SGT405 says ...



Rookies want the glamour and no grunt work. The COPS tv generation, and the lowering of  standards.



Al, I think you hit it on the head. The newer LEOs seem to be in it for the money and not for the same reasons you and I joined. I have seen more of the brotherhood distancing themselfs until a tragedy hits.



 When I started my Law Enforcement Careerer in the 70's we mad very little money for a 40 hour week. It was the road work and O.T. shifts that kept us at the normal level. I also became an E.M.T. and worked on the Ambulance Squad for some extra money but most of all for the service I could provide on the 3rd. shift when all the bad accidents take place. We were a department of 13 Officers and (SHORT 8 MORE THAT WERE ALLOCATED). We had a Union of the membership for negotiations . We did get first class Medical and Retirement benefits but were short on pay. I became Disability Retired in 1986 just as the local departments went to a larger Union of multiple departments for better benefits. Then they all joined the Teamsters Union and started making BIG MONEY compared to my older standards. Now they still want more money , they have more toys to play with (like zapping each other with tasers while fighting boredom) and most of all they have become much more arrogant to any retired officers because they are out of the every day mix. I actually get more respect from other Departments when I go to the Law Enforcement Olympic Games and get to exchange stories over a beverage or two after the competition and see how tactics and attitudes have changed over the years. The crime are mostly the same but today "THE POLICE OFFICER IS A MARKED MAN MORE-SO TODAY THEN IN THE PAST TO SOME EXTENT". The 70's were a rough time but it got better over time. Now the Gangs are more active and love to kill police. Todays Officers need to understand that we retired Officers are the only ones that really understand what they are dealing with and we will always step in and give them a hand when they are in trouble because it is in our nature. Unfortunately some of todays officers take it as affront to have help from some old man and some even take pride in not giving any "Professional Courtesy" to an old timer. It's the me generation mind set "OR MAYBE I AM JUST PARANOID".?????


Glory earned on the field of battle , can never be taken away , you take it with you to the grave. Quote by General George Armstrong Custer

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

Thanks to all that have commented on this topic! Im glad im not the only one seeing this. I try to make it a point to talk to any officer i come in contact with, unless his is in a duty related situation. I hope this trend changes tho, we need that bond to be there because without it, there is nothing that stands between the sane and the insane.

Th_policeavatar_2__max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

I'm going to add a little here. Yes, times have changed and society is more violent. That SHOULD be the reason for us being closer as fellow cops and not  the other way around. I feel technology may have something to do with it. Back in my younger days we patrolled with windows down, got out and greeted the citizenry. Now, all I see are officers in their cars with the windows up, on cell  phones. We have distanced ourselves from those we protect and from each other.  One other factor I see a trend toward is applicants taking the first offer while waiting to get on with the dept. they really wanted.  How can you effectively do your job when all you are doing is biding your time?


""Life is a storm.. You will bask in the sunlight one moment, be shattered on the rocks the next. What makes you a man is what you do when that storm comes"
Alexander Dumas-The Count of Monte Christo

Rcsd04_max600_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 2 years ago

 

SGT405 says ...



I'm going to add a little here. Yes, times have changed and society is more violent. That SHOULD be the reason for us being closer as fellow cops and not  the other way around. I feel technology may have something to do with it. Back in my younger days we patrolled with windows down, got out and greeted the citizenry. Now, all I see are officers in their cars with the windows up, on cell  phones. We have distanced ourselves from those we protect and from each other.  One other factor I see a trend toward is applicants taking the first offer while waiting to get on with the dept. they really wanted.  How can you effectively do your job when all you are doing is biding your time?


I could not agree more with that SGT405! It even happens in my department. Windows are up, cell phone in one ear and typing on the car computer in the other hand. How many times does dispatch tells us that so and so citizen would like to talk to us, and we end up asking for a phone number. Why not just take the extra couple seconds and go personally. Myself when I am out I'll take time to spend it with a business or three. When I gas up at a station I'll go in and spend 5 minutes talking to the people. When I go to eat, I talk to the people there. I love to just get out visit sometimes when call volume is down. 



You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

SGT405 says ...



I'm going to add a little here. Yes, times have changed and society is more violent. That SHOULD be the reason for us being closer as fellow cops and not  the other way around. I feel technology may have something to do with it. Back in my younger days we patrolled with windows down, got out and greeted the citizenry. Now, all I see are officers in their cars with the windows up, on cell  phones. We have distanced ourselves from those we protect and from each other.  One other factor I see a trend toward is applicants taking the first offer while waiting to get on with the dept. they really wanted.  How can you effectively do your job when all you are doing is biding your time?



  All Departments with Computer Access are fighting a battle to Lock Out the Porn from the Computers that cause multiple problems with Viruses that infect the entire system. One of todays technologies that are being mis-used that could possibly lead to an Officer getting Killed because the computer link is damaged from a virus. I don't understand why the offending Officers are not heavily disciplined or removed from the job?????? "Once upon a time the Police Officers actually new the people by name "THAT WERE NOT CRIMINALS IN THE COMMUNITY" and the Community responded with assistance rather then turn and walk away ! When you isolate yourself from the public it also works in the opposite direction.


Glory earned on the field of battle , can never be taken away , you take it with you to the grave. Quote by General George Armstrong Custer

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

sgt405 and ilegworldchamp,bumpt to the both of you my friends.Whenever I changed districts and/or shifts the first thing I did was to make certain I knew the young people in my districts.I found it made a ton of difference.We DIDN't have computers in our cruisers and we didn't have cell phones to distract us and I frankly didn't feel lost or ignorant because of it.We DID ,however know a h-ll of a  lot about the law and did some fine police work with the people whom we considered our brothers and sisters. 

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

SGT405, you said a mouthfull.  I feel the truth of what you say in my bones. But...let's be real.  Why should cops be any different from the rest of society in terms of retreat  into cyberspace as a substitute for on-ground brotherhood interactions?  Considering the nature of the job, why wouldn't cops retreat quite naturally into cyberspace?  Doesn't cyberspace seem to promise superior, faster and more convenient connections??  The hand of friendship at all times of the day and night?? 


ilegworldchamp' takes it further.  His  idea centers on a shrinking sense of community helped along by a retreat into cyberspace. This raises the question - has the cop on the beat  become a non-entity to civilians???  A sort-of militarized faceless entity?  Further...are cops becoming masked off from each other??? 


I can only say I have interacted with many cops here and on-ground.  I know for a fact cops are equipped with exceptionally big hearts and big souls.  Friendship matters.  A LOT.


Sooo...you all are discussing quite a contradiction.  What a dilemma!!


What do do???!!


 


 


SGT405 says ...



I'm going to add a little here. Yes, times have changed and society is more violent. That SHOULD be the reason for us being closer as fellow cops and not  the other way around. I feel technology may have something to do with it. Back in my younger days we patrolled with windows down, got out and greeted the citizenry. Now, all I see are officers in their cars with the windows up, on cell  phones. We have distanced ourselves from those we protect and from each other.  One other factor I see a trend toward is applicants taking the first offer while waiting to get on with the dept. they really wanted.  How can you effectively do your job when all you are doing is biding your time?


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Rate This | Posted about 2 years ago

 

Very well presented Marly..I just hope we don't lose contact with the human element as we are submersing ourselves into cyberspace.Quite correct,there is no reason why we cannot work a computer in the cruiser,but let us not neglect to assist the little old lady accross the street.

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