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Colorado Shooting

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Posted over 1 year ago

 

I just wanted to get a discussion going on everyones thoughts of this horrific event. My first thought after hearing the news was that someone with a concealed carry permit could have given those people a fighting chance. I can understand why more guns on citizens could make each police officers job more difficult, but awful shootings like this make me think that responsible citizens should be legally armed. Perhaps since I have never been a police officer I am a bit biased.


Either way, I'm not looking to start a debate over the second ammendment laws, those are just my thoughts. I don't live anywhere near Colorado, but I want to express my codolences to the families of all those killed or injured. My thoughts are with them.

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 I thought about the whole concealed carry angle while thinking about the reactions that will come from this tragedy. First, consider that the shooter entered a darkened movie theater, set off at least one smoke bomb which severely limited visibility, then caused a panic by firing several weapons into the crowded theater. Even a seasoned veteran officer, with extensive firearms training and experience, would have had difficulty "taking down" the shooter because of all the factors I mentioned. Someone with a concealed carry permit may not have taken into consideration the risks to the panicked crowd if he were to attempt to take down the shooter. It would have put others at risk and perhaps gottent the person with the c.c. accused of being an accomplice. 


I try not ot speculate too much on these types of things because I wasn't there and I don't like to second guess without first hand knowledge. These were just my initial thoughts regarding the possibility of another person who was armed being there when he went off. 


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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

Thank you for your input. Of course there are a lot of factors that none of us can even begin to guess at since we were not present. And I definitely see your point that even a seasoned veteran would probably have difficulty in that situation. I just can't stand hearing these kinds of stories, and perhaps a gun would have made things worse, but then again, what chance did they have without any weapons at all? Again, please take my opinions with a grain of salt. I'm too young to even own a handgun yet, I'm not really qualified to even give my opinion on owning one.

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Like BigNTS I don't know one way or the other.  Had a trained citizen been in the right place at the right time yea, the outcome could have been very different.  Had an officer been on regular patrol and seen this guy walking to the door gun and hand things also would have been very different. 


I am waiting for the investigation to unfold and more information to be released on this one.  It seemed very odd to me that they guy, by reports I've heard, was just standing by his car more or less waiting for the police to arrive.  I don't know if that's true but we do know he was arrested without incident.  Usually these guys either commit suicide or are killed in a shoot-out


Very strange situation indeed. 


May the victims rest in peace. 

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

mmmm, this Tragedy  was bizzare for me too, and the shooters motives completely threw me off of what I initially thought.  


There's some unconfirmed speculation that noted when Gunman James Holmes went outside to gear up, he came back with body armor.


There's talk of Heroism, but also talk that some family members still can't locate their loved one.


My heart aches for those victims, the ones hanging on in the Hospitals.  The Survivors will be in my prayers as well as the Medical staff attending to them.


What doesn't kill me had better start running!

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

LonnaNJ There are clips attached to the article here on PL.  The Police Chief said that Holmes was pretty much armored head to toe.  Then the booby trapped apartment??  He was a PHD student in neuroscience and suddenly dropped out a couple of weeks ago, then this???


The stress on the men and women who are cleaning up this mess must be incredible.  Not to mention the community and families of those injured and killed. 


Of all the mass shootings that have occurred this one somehow feels completely different. 

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I believe that this one just feels so different because there is no real motive. As you have said, there doesn't seem to be indications of why he did what he did, why he chose the theatre, why anything. It's also extremely strange that he put up no fight (apparently) when he was arrested...which is odd because he was completely geared for a full scale assault.


It makes this massacre even MORE senseless then the others that have occurred before it.

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

 No one can really say what could or could not have happened to change the tragedy from what it was.  We were not there and really it is a tragedy.  My prayers and heart go out to all that were there and hope they find peace and healing!


Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today’s world do not have.

Ronald Reagan

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Rated +1 | Posted over 1 year ago

 

Even a trained professional police officer would have difficulty with the amount of folks in panic mode. The window of opportunity was quite minimal. I am certain a clear shot would have been so minimal.

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

BUMP, UncleDennis!! Things happen quickly, it takes your mind time to click in as to what's happening and you have hundreds of folks in panic mode. Having clear opportunity to act would be minimal, but I would still be trying!!


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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

 I think what bothers me more than anything is the fact that small children were a part of this carnage. Given the conditions in the theater, it would have been difficult at best to act, but like 36TR, I think all of us would still be trying.

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Deefuzz I am concerned that infants were even in the theater at a midnight showing of a violent movie.  But that discussion is for another day.

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

As more information becomes available I will post it here. I also had your concerns mmmm, there really shouldn't have been any infants there. I was a little confused on if they've confirmed exactly what happened. Did he kick in one of the exit doors, or somehow make it through the theatre lobby?

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

He walked in in full gear, but at a midnight showing of a movie like Dark Knight one expects people to dress up. Many thought he was engaging in cosplay (Google it)--and perhaps he was, but he was obviously up to more than play.


 




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Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

No need to post additional on the incident. All news stations are coverning it and it is very much available on yahoo and others.

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Thank you for this forum topic to discuss the event and, importantly, reactions to it.


Sometimes I just hate what our society has become.  I think we have to be strong and retain our way of life.  I feel a great lament and I have to fight it.  I guess we all do, don't we?


Let us not let fear rule our way of life.  Let's be smart and be aware.  Let's keep keeping on in our public places.

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

The gernade was not a smoke gernade it was a CS gas canister. Without a gas mask you could not tolerate the gas.  There is no way anyone would have been able to see the shooter to get a good aim.  He was wearing a BP vest, and groin protector that was also BP, alone with a kevlar helmet.  You could have taken it legs out, or you would have had to get a good face shot.  Tough situation for the officer to face.


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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

JIMROC says ...



The gernade was not a smoke gernade it was a CS gas canister. Without a gas mask you could not tolerate the gas.  There is no way anyone would have been able to see the shooter to get a good aim.  He was wearing a BP vest, and groin protector that was also BP, alone with a kevlar helmet.  You could have taken it legs out, or you would have had to get a good face shot.  Tough situation for the officer to face.



According to reports he was also wearing leg protectors.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

In my book its still terrorism(domestic).


Quote:"The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to instill fear".


Most of the moviegoers that I was informed of were under the age of 21. So the odds of a concealed carry permit holder being there are dramitically lowered. Even discounting the gas/ballistic clothing.


Most of us in law enforcement are amazed this has not happened with more frequency. Large, crowded venues are ripe for terrorism. Islamic, domestic and just plain nutjobs with a grudge. 


""Life is a storm.. You will bask in the sunlight one moment, be shattered on the rocks the next. What makes you a man is what you do when that storm comes"
Alexander Dumas-The Count of Monte Christo

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

mz66 says ...



JIMROC says ...



The gernade was not a smoke gernade it was a CS gas canister. Without a gas mask you could not tolerate the gas.  There is no way anyone would have been able to see the shooter to get a good aim.  He was wearing a BP vest, and groin protector that was also BP, alone with a kevlar helmet.  You could have taken it legs out, or you would have had to get a good face shot.  Tough situation for the officer to face.



According to reports he was also wearing leg protectors.



Which is all the more reason why I can't figure out why he gave up so easily. Who puts on that much stuff and prepares like that, only to go silently when the cops arrive.

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

 Why are you looking for rationality within an irrational act?




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

mz66 says ...



 Why are you looking for rationality within an irrational act?



I withdraw my previous statement.

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BigNTS says ...



 I thought about the whole concealed carry angle while thinking about the reactions that will come from this tragedy. First, consider that the shooter entered a darkened movie theater, set off at least one smoke bomb which severely limited visibility, then caused a panic by firing several weapons into the crowded theater. Even a seasoned veteran officer, with extensive firearms training and experience, would have had difficulty "taking down" the shooter because of all the factors I mentioned. Someone with a concealed carry permit may not have taken into consideration the risks to the panicked crowd if he were to attempt to take down the shooter. It would have put others at risk and perhaps gottent the person with the c.c. accused of being an accomplice. 


I try not ot speculate too much on these types of things because I wasn't there and I don't like to second guess without first hand knowledge. These were just my initial thoughts regarding the possibility of another person who was armed being there when he went off. 


In addition to all of the factors that BigNTS mentioned above.  Anyone with a concealed carry permit would have been outgunned by a man wearing full body armor and helmit.  And this was a very large room.  The chance of the person being close enough to have an effect would not be very good.  And with hundreds of people fleeing a smoked filled room he or she would not be able to move to the threat.    I really don't think that it would havve made any differance.


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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

BigNTS says ...



 I thought about the whole concealed carry angle while thinking about the reactions that will come from this tragedy. First, consider that the shooter entered a darkened movie theater, set off at least one smoke bomb which severely limited visibility, then caused a panic by firing several weapons into the crowded theater. Even a seasoned veteran officer, with extensive firearms training and experience, would have had difficulty "taking down" the shooter because of all the factors I mentioned. Someone with a concealed carry permit may not have taken into consideration the risks to the panicked crowd if he were to attempt to take down the shooter. It would have put others at risk and perhaps gottent the person with the c.c. accused of being an accomplice. 


I try not ot speculate too much on these types of things because I wasn't there and I don't like to second guess without first hand knowledge. These were just my initial thoughts regarding the possibility of another person who was armed being there when he went off. 


In addition to all of the factors that BigNTS mentioned above.  Anyone with a concealed carry permit would have been outgunned by a man wearing full body armor and helmit.  And this was a very large room.  The chance of the person being close enough to have an effect would not be very good.  And with hundreds of people fleeing a smoked filled room he or she would not be able to move to the threat.    I really don't think that it would havve made any differance.


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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

mz66 says ...



 Why are you looking for rationality within an irrational act?



Sometimes, people look for rationality as to why people do certain things or act a certain way.  I know I do.  I am very analytical and do it all the time. 


Everything this person did and how he acted will be analyzed by professionals, I'm sure.


"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives." - Ronald Reagan

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

Catwoman911 says ...



mz66 says ...



 Why are you looking for rationality within an irrational act?



Sometimes, people look for rationality as to why people do certain things or act a certain way.  I know I do.  I am very analytical and do it all the time. 


Everything this person did and how he acted will be analyzed by professionals, I'm sure.



Your response is appreciated. I am a very logical type thinker, I always look for the reasons something happened. It's just odd for me to imagine someone doing something (not just this, anything really) without having reasons, that's all

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mejupiter1333 says ...



Catwoman911 says ...



mz66 says ...



 Why are you looking for rationality within an irrational act?



Sometimes, people look for rationality as to why people do certain things or act a certain way.  I know I do.  I am very analytical and do it all the time. 


Everything this person did and how he acted will be analyzed by professionals, I'm sure.



Your response is appreciated. I am a very logical type thinker, I always look for the reasons something happened. It's just odd for me to imagine someone doing something (not just this, anything really) without having reasons, that's all



Yep!  You are human for sure... LOL..


"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives." - Ronald Reagan

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

Shrinks are simply better guessers than we mere mortals.Much better paid,as well.Rest assured some top notch ,nationally known mouthpeice will take this case pro bono simply for the headlines.Yes the shooter will lounge around for more than a decade,on our tax dollars untill all his appeals are exhausted.Books will be published and movie rights handled.I see this miserable excuse for a human is already being glorified ,on Face Book by IDIOTS who are every bit as retarded as he.Hundreds of females will be his pen pal and desire to have his offspring.After Columbine,then this, I'm wondering what's in the water and/or atmosphere of Colorado?--I made reference to Psychologists /psychiatrists in the first sentence.I have known and spoken with many and most will admit that NOBODY really knows what is in the heart/mind of another person.


I fervently pray for the souls of the departed,the wounded and all familys and loved ones left behind..I also pray for the family of the suspect.What a heartache this must be for them.

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mejupiter1333 says ...



mz66 says ...



 Why are you looking for rationality within an irrational act?



I withdraw my previous statement.



I didn't mean to sound flip. What I meant was that look at the act itself: it's totally irrational. The first question unanswered is "Why did he do this at all?" That particular choice--to surrender without incident outside the rear exit of the theater--well, if I were called on to speculate, I would say that whatever his plan was, he changed his mind. That's really the simplest, most rational explanation. But, what I really meant was, how can you expect rationality from an act that's so inexplicable in the first place?




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

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mz66 says ...



mejupiter1333 says ...



mz66 says ...



 Why are you looking for rationality within an irrational act?



I withdraw my previous statement.



I didn't mean to sound flip. What I meant was that look at the act itself: it's totally irrational. The first question unanswered is "Why did he do this at all?" That particular choice--to surrender without incident outside the rear exit of the theater--well, if I were called on to speculate, I would say that whatever his plan was, he changed his mind. That's really the simplest, most rational explanation. But, what I really meant was, how can you expect rationality from an act that's so inexplicable in the first place?



I completely agree with you, and I didn't take it in the wrong way at all, I was attempting to make a joke based on that I had never even really thought of that until you had mentioned it. You are completely right though, everything about it was irrational and I am probably wasting my time by looking for a logical reason for it.

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