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Seriously????

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Thorroses_max50

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Posted almost 2 years ago

 

I normally don't read the section of the newspaper 'Letters to the Editor' but you've got to read these!!!


Austin American Statesman Newspaper:


DWI and danger


Re: March 27 article, "Public intoxication law draws scrutiny."


In this article, attorney David Gonzalez said the public intoxication law is "the only law on the books that allows hypothetical's" because all other crimes require that a criminal act has been committed in order to justify a charge.


I would suggest that the same is true of the driving while intoxicated laws that essentially hypothesize that because people have been drinking, they might hurt themselves or others.


By all means, if someone has been drinking and hurt someone or damage property, throw away the key.


Many innocent lives, however, have been ruined or damaged by overzealous cops meeting DUI quotas by stopping innocent people in the downtown area, knowing full well that 9 of 10 drivers in that area late at night have been drinking, and throwing them in jail for a victimless crime.


Presumably, they throw DWI suspects in jail because they have the "potential" to hurt someone. Meanwhile, the State of Texas allows people to carry concealed weapons. Go figure.


Sidney Hodgson


Austin


(Now after reading that one I wanted to scream my reply! However I like this one, which was actually in a later paper!)


Smile at Police


Let's face it. Sixth Street at night is just one big alcohol-guzzling joint with a public street running through it. Without the police, there'd be no law and order, and who knows what calamity would happen on any given night.


A word to the wise: If you're going to get drunk on public property, expect to be stopped by the police and, like a Boy Scout, "be prepared." Instead of fighting it, smile and be courteous. After all, you should be smiling. Being good-natured goes a long way in life and in facing a Cop.


By acting civil, you'll probably get a ride home, rather than spend the night in jail facing charges that will cost you time, worry, and, ah yes, money.


So think about it.


You probably spent a bundle getting drunk, so why risk spending another bundle to remind you of it?


Merrill Whitehead


Wimberley


 

Imagescae1lc8r_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

Sounds like he had just gotten bonded out on a Drunk and disorderly charge. You should be more understanding Dara, his feelings were probably hurt as he wrote that......

Thorroses_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

My bad... I can't seem to understand that one.... No matter how hard I try!!!

Imagescae1lc8r_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

Geeeezzzzzz, you're so cynical!      lol

Thorroses_max50

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LOL

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

Yup, DPalmer.  Heard this one before.  Arrest for the potential of committing a crime / in anticipation of the commission of a crime. 


Annnd...the potential itself also constitutes a crime.  BAC + DWI=Potential/Crime


Called "risk".  It's about the relationship between risk/negligence (BAC + operating a motor vehicle) and percentages - referenced to insurance companies' figures. 


 

Securedownload__3__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

 Since 1982, drunk driving fatalities have dropped 52%. 2009 total deaths were 10,839 compared to 1991 which was at 15,827.  The 2010 death toll was reported to be 10,228.  That's over half the amount of deaths since the statistic has been recorded.  This past year 3,200 less families were given the tragic news they had lost a loved at the hands of a drunk driver.   


 


If that's not enough, to show you this is not a VICTIMLESS CRIME.... I dont know what is..


 


I commend the Officers who crack down on this and not only do I hope it keeps going, I hope the system can be improved to ensure even more families will never have to get that knock on the door.


 

Thorroses_max50

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Saintsuperfan25 says ...



 Since 1982, drunk driving fatalities have dropped 52%. 2009 total deaths were 10,839 compared to 1991 which was at 15,827.  The 2010 death toll was reported to be 10,228.  That's over half the amount of deaths since the statistic has been recorded.  This past year 3,200 less families were got the tragic news they had lost a loved at the hands of a drunk driver.   


 


If that's not enough, to show you this is not a VICTIMLESS CRIME.... I don't know what is..


 


I commend the Officers who crack down on this and not only do I hope it keeps going, I hope the system can be improved to ensure even more families will never have to get that knock on the door.


 



I agree 100% I have people VERY close to me who have been affected by drunk drivers. I couldn't believe that woman had the nerve! I just wanted to strangle her.... but I'm sure it's not her fault that she's an.......

Securedownload__3__max50

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DPalmer says ...



Saintsuperfan25 says ...



 **Should have been "Don't know what is" Typo**



One of the nice things about PL is you can go back and edit posts and fix typo's


 


Done...I didn't even notice the edit button.. Nice.. THanks


Thorroses_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

MarlyB says ...



Yup, DPalmer.  Heard this one before.  Arrest for the potential of committing a crime / in anticipation of the commission of a crime. 


Annnd...the potential itself also constitutes a crime.  BAC + DWI=Potential/Crime


Called "risk".  It's about the relationship between risk/negligence (BAC + operating a motor vehicle) and percentages - referenced to insurance companies' figures. 


 



Yes Ma'am! & I agree to it!

Eagle_and_flag_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

BUMP!!!!  


In GOD We Trust (All others get searched, then checked through NCIC)

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Csi_squirrle_max600_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

Well with his argument we can also do without speeding violaions, running red lights, stop signs.  Drug use, posession and dealing.  We could eliminate protective orders as well in DV cases.  Hmmm maybe this guy is on to something.............. NOT

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

So, while the law's provision may (or may not be unique post-911) in terms of the arrest for the 'potential' of committing a crime...


the arrest and conviction of a  "blind drunk" or "reaction-time/visual and judgment impaired" person caught operating a multi-ton machine with the potential approaching of converting into a lethal weapon is society's own shield against mayhem arising from -


 


THIS KIND OF NEGLECT


Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

 


CARRYING THE POTENTIAL OF THIS KIND OF SELF-VICTIMIZATION


Female_bodysurfer_max50

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AND THE POTENTIAL FOR THIS KIND OF HARM TO OTHERS


Wredcedar_max50

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mmmm says ...



Well with his argument we can also do without speeding violaions, running red lights, stop signs.  Drug use, posession and dealing.  We could eliminate protective orders as well in DV cases.  Hmmm maybe this guy is on to something.............. NOT



Many crimes are 'hypotheticals' in that specific cases may not do any harm but have the potential for harm, in addition to the ones mentioned by mmmm, take reckless driving, if it is wreckless  you could say that it hypothetical, but you still go to jail, also any attempt. crime could probably be considered hypothetical.

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

MADD's got a great gift idea.  I'd say it's worth FAR more than gold.  You can even design your own.


 


ADDRESS THE POTENTIAL - YOU MAY SAVE A LIFE!



 

Thorroses_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

Personally I'm glad that my parents taught me as they did. If you're going to drink do it at home or somewhere that you don't have to leave to get some sleep. If you're in a place where you don't feel that you can trust the people around you to get you safely home and into bed then don't drink. If you have friends who want to get behind the wheel after drinking do everything you can to prevent it. If someone does get behind the wheel, despite all your efforts, then don't get into the car with them.


I was a bartender for many years after high school & I can honestly say that none of my bar patrons were in an accident by any fault of mine. I took my TABC license with honor, respect & pride! While I may have made a few people mad because I cut them off, made them call a cab or even made the business manager serve them the next drink because I refused. The next day/weekend they always came back & said thank you. Be it because they saw a DWI wreck on the way home or watched a bum help a person to their car holding them up with one hand in each of the drunk person's pockets and switching pockets to keep them steady. They ALWAYS came back to say THANK YOU & I'm glad that wasn't me......

Death_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

First, it must be understood that this article quote is from an attorney. I will not pass judgment on any one individual, but it must be recognized that not all attorneys’ moral compasses point north.


Second, the idea of this being labeled as a “victimless crime” is a bit of a misnomer. DWI (or DUI) is a statutory offense and the “victim” is actually the state. There is no criminal act against a victim-person, but it is still a violation of statute (Much the same as tax evasion or fraud, littering, urinating in public, mixing improper/incompatible chemicals, etc) and the State sets the level of crime (misdemeanor or felony) based on the level of harm. In other words, it’s a crime because the State says it is. These laws, and thousands like them, attempt to balance the private right against the public good. Nearly all the states agree that not having a completely bonked idiot behind the wheel of a two thousand pound missile is a good thing. Since the simple violation of driving while exceeding the alcohol level limit has only the POTENTIAL of causing injury and damage and because it is a violation of state statute, it is a misdemeanor. When a person finally does kill someone while driving drunk, it’s usually a felony. A bar certified attorney should know the difference (having been trained in law and whatnot).


Third (and most importantly) concealed weapon carriers in Texas (or elsewhere), who carry legally by statute, are not criminals.


Finally, if you commit any violation of statute, whether or not you are located, arrested and subsequently convicted of violating said statute in court, you are not “innocent”. So, everyone who didn't get caught is still guilty, Just my observations.

Thorroses_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

The first one is a reply from a citizen to an article that was written by an attorney


The second was written in response to the first and printed in a later newspaper

Crumb_passin_thru_02_1__max50

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Rated +1 | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

This probably takes a little of the dry legal perspective out of the equation, but I think of it this way:


The crime is gambling with the safety of life and property.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

Thorroses_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

This was written by the Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo and in the April 18, 2012 newspaper:


By now many of the people of Austin and beyond know about the tragic cold-blooded killing of officer Jaime Padron of the Austin Police Department. Jaime spent his entire adult life in the service of others as a combat U.S. Marine infantryman and as a police officer in San Angelo and then Austin. Jaime lived and died as a hero, doing what he loved best, serving others.


As I reflect upon Jaime's death and the aftermath, I am deeply comforted by the knowledge that Jaime and his family were of deep faith. Although we lost a great public servant, and two young girls lost their loving father, Padron's final selfless act provided a great gift to the people of Austin: The opportunity to express their support, respect and appreciation not just for Jaime, but for all of his colleagues.


The open display by a diverse group of thousands has not gone unnoticed by our officers, who have become accustomed only to hearing from a few loud critics and to being pummeled by a constant barrage of mostly unwarranted criticism that I believe in most instances has been generated solely for politically expedient and self-serving reasons. These regular critics, for whom the facts and the law are apparently irrelevant, are quick to ostracize officers when they use force to defend themselves or others from injury or death, or to make a lawful arrest. These same people almost universally fail to condemn attacks on police officers or, even worse, the cold-blooded killing of an officer as illustrated by their silence surrounding Padron's death.


Following Padron's murder, Austin police heard from the silent majority who strongly support and appreciate the collective excellence of our personnel.


Law enforcement employees were filled with emotion as they witnessed thousands of community members holding signs expressing gratitude and support for Padron and his colleagues along the motorcade route that carried Padron's body from the funeral in Austin last Wednesday back to San Angelo. Yellow balloons were released and American flags were waived along the route.


I have received many words of appreciation from the men and women I lead for the love and support they have seen this past week. Throughout the past few days I have heard many officers say that Jaime and the people of Austin have made them prouder than ever to say that they are members of the Austin Police Department and that they serve the people in one of the finest cities in our nation. On behalf of Padron's family and of the men and women of the Austin Police Department, I must say, "Thank you, Austin!" for your overwhelming support and expressions of true appreciation.


And thank you to the Austin media for helping to tell Senior Police Officer Padron's story so eloquently and sensitively, and for helping to show the rest of the United States that the relationship between the APD and all of the people it serves is healthy and strong.


As a result of Padron's death, we now know more than ever that the police department and the community it serves need each other, appreciate each other and will always be there for each other.

Thorroses_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

This was in response to Chief Acevedo's article and in yesterday's paper:


After reading the chief of police's expression of thanks to Austinites for their support, and his disdain for those critical of the police department, I am compelled to respond to this divisive thank you. To use the death of an officer to demonize legitimate criticism reeks of politics and manipulation of the public. It does no honor to a fallen officer and it undermines the image of the police force.


The primary criticism from most community organizations and civil rights groups for the past 10 to 20 years in Austin has been the Austin Police Department's use of excessive force. This longstanding grievance and open wound in this community has yet to be addressed or redressed by the police, elected officials or criminal justice system.


From 2000 to 2011, more than 14 minorities have been killed by APD. That's more than one person a year killed by the police, primarily in east Austin. Several killed were mentally ill and the majority were unarmed. Practically all of these killings could have been avoided. The history of this problem is much older, but the frequency and pain in the community is increasing.


The primary reasoning given by the police in most of these shootings has been that the officer feared for their or their partner's lives. The APD "Response to Resistance" policy relies on what is called "the reasonable officer standard." This standard on use of deadly force is too broad and subjective, and it endangers our community by allowing immediate escalation to deadly use of force. The community continues to call on the chief to change the use of force policy for civilians in this city. Considering how APD has expressed its willingness to review its use of force policy on pets, and the number of people killed, its only logical and fair to include humans.


The community has been calling for the more restrictive and objective "preservation of life standard" to guide officers. This standard is founded on the United States Supreme Court Graham v. Conner decision, which states that the proper measure to determine whether a law enforcement officer's use of force is excessive is "objective reasonableness" under the Fourth Amendment.


There were no cheers or celebrations at the death of an officer doing his duty and protecting us all. We are all working toward reducing violence in this city, and every death is a tragedy. Criticism of APD policies does not mean it is us against them.


The effort to improve our police force is not an effort to demean the character of our civil servants.


This is a longstanding and continuing demand for fairness, justice and adherence to basic constitutional rights. We look for a police chief who will help heal the wounds in our community. I challenge our elected officials to help make APD a better police force. The community stands with you in efforts to make our city a safer place.


Williams is president of the Austin Center for Peace and Justice.

Th_policeavatar_2__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

Bad subject for me.My wife's sister was killed on her 16th birthday, on her first date, by a drunk driver who got out of his car and walked away.


I treat intoxication of any person the same as I would investigating a crime.  The  evidence points me where I need to go.


""Life is a storm.. You will bask in the sunlight one moment, be shattered on the rocks the next. What makes you a man is what you do when that storm comes"
Alexander Dumas-The Count of Monte Christo

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

SGT405 says ...



Bad subject for me.My wife's sister was killed on her 16th birthday, on her first date, by a drunk driver who got out of his car and walked away.


I treat intoxication of any person the same as I would investigating a crime.  The  evidence points me where I need to go.



Sgt. I'm so sorry.  You can't make sense of something like this.  That's the hardest part.  I would like to think that her sister is in heaven helping stop intoxicated drivers from hurting or killing anyone else.  God Bless her.

Thorroses_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

SGT405 I can understand that feeling

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Rated +1 | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

Well I don't drink anymore but I used to, and when I was a very young and stupid adult I did drink and drive, but thank God I was never involved in an accident where anyone was hurt. I did wreck my car once with 3 of my friends in the car with me when I was about 18 and realized that I could have killed us all or someone else, so I stopped drinking and driving. From then on if I was going to drink I would get somewhere and stay there, either at home or a friends house or was taken home by a designated driver. I don't miss drinking at all and preach against it when I can, but people should use their heads and if they're gonna drink don't get behind the wheel at all, no matter if it's only a drink or two.

Wredcedar_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

DPalmer says ...



This was in response to Chief Acevedo's article and in yesterday's paper:


After reading the chief of police's expression of thanks to Austinites for their support, and his disdain for those critical of the police department, I am compelled to respond to this divisive thank you. To use the death of an officer to demonize legitimate criticism reeks of politics and manipulation of the public. It does no honor to a fallen officer and it undermines the image of the police force.


The primary criticism from most community organizations and civil rights groups for the past 10 to 20 years in Austin has been the Austin Police Department's use of excessive force. This longstanding grievance and open wound in this community has yet to be addressed or redressed by the police, elected officials or criminal justice system.


From 2000 to 2011, more than 14 minorities have been killed by APD. That's more than one person a year killed by the police, primarily in east Austin. Several killed were mentally ill and the majority were unarmed. Practically all of these killings could have been avoided. The history of this problem is much older, but the frequency and pain in the community is increasing.


The primary reasoning given by the police in most of these shootings has been that the officer feared for their or their partner's lives. The APD "Response to Resistance" policy relies on what is called "the reasonable officer standard." This standard on use of deadly force is too broad and subjective, and it endangers our community by allowing immediate escalation to deadly use of force. The community continues to call on the chief to change the use of force policy for civilians in this city. Considering how APD has expressed its willingness to review its use of force policy on pets, and the number of people killed, its only logical and fair to include humans.


The community has been calling for the more restrictive and objective "preservation of life standard" to guide officers. This standard is founded on the United States Supreme Court Graham v. Conner decision, which states that the proper measure to determine whether a law enforcement officer's use of force is excessive is "objective reasonableness" under the Fourth Amendment.


There were no cheers or celebrations at the death of an officer doing his duty and protecting us all. We are all working toward reducing violence in this city, and every death is a tragedy. Criticism of APD policies does not mean it is us against them.


The effort to improve our police force is not an effort to demean the character of our civil servants.


This is a longstanding and continuing demand for fairness, justice and adherence to basic constitutional rights. We look for a police chief who will help heal the wounds in our community. I challenge our elected officials to help make APD a better police force. The community stands with you in efforts to make our city a safer place.


Williams is president of the Austin Center for Peace and Justice.



Williams is an idiot, especially in light of being the president of the Austin Center for Peace and Justice when he appearently doesn't want either.  If no Officers were charged in the 14 shootings, they were all justiified shooting.  As near as I can tell there are about 40 homocides/yr in Austin and I bet the majority of then are minority on minority ones, or something like 3X a year what the police have justified done in the past 11 years.  If Williams wants peace and justice, ne needs to work in the communities witrh the highest homocide rate and quit critizing the police.

Thorroses_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 2 years ago

 

Cedardale I couldn't agree more that's why I posted it in the Seriously???? thread.... What a peace of work pun intended