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Poll: Sovereign Citizens, Your Thoughts?

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Poll: Are sovereign citizens patriots or a law enforcement menace?

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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Posted over 2 years ago

 

Please share your thoughts on this topic. If you do not know what sovereign citizens are please research them with care. Many of their websites contain spyware and viruses. It is best to research their rhetoric on YouTube. Use the keywords 14th Amendment, indigenous, uniform commercial code, and/or strawman. If you already know what I am talking about please feel free to vote in the poll and say your piece.


You can't cure stupid.

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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Top_Cat says ...



Members have already been responsible for LEO deaths using AK-47's.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_West_Memphis_police_shootings



 



You are correct Top_Cat. In my opinion they are truly despicable human pices of filth that got what they deserved in the end. I am wondering if any PL members have had any interactions with them. The dash cam video of that event is on YouTube by the way. The father of one of the victims in that shooting, West Memphis Police Chief Bob Paudert, gave a very compelling interview to 60 Minutes about the events of the day. Interactions anyone?


You can't cure stupid.

Thorroses_max50

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You mean they gave that human trash a title?!?


This really is a good topic.. Thanks ajsdaddy!


I have nothing NICE to say & just the thought of it makes me MAD!


There is a LOT I'd like to say but with the new cussing sensor its best I cool my heels for a bit...

Rcsd04_max600_max50

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 Haven't had any interaction with this group. But I am always reading up on them from my department and other departments. These are some nasty people and what they do is very scary. I saw that awful video many times, and it just makes your stomach turn. This group needs to be closely watched by all of us, and kept up to date with their tactics. 


You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

Thorroses_max50

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For those of you who might like some info



 

Images_gator_max50

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We don't have problems with them being crazy to the degree that y'all are discussing. We had one here who didn't pay taxes, wrote his name in all capital letters and then put some disclaimer on anything he signed......citations, etc.... But he was fairly harmless other than being a thorn in the keester!

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 Very Dangerous. Approach with caution. Call for additional units to assist!!

Rcsd04_max600_max50

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Shadow_GurL says ...



 Very Dangerous. Approach with caution. Call for additional units to assist!!


BIG BUMP to that!!!! Do not take any chances. Never know what they have planned on trying to do. 



You wouldn't go in there for a million bucks...A Cop does it for less...A Reserve does it for free....

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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These are BONEHEADS. 

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ajsdaddyCCSO says ...



Please share your thoughts on this topic. If you do not know what sovereign citizens are please research them with care. Many of their websites contain spyware and viruses. It is best to research their rhetoric on YouTube. Use the keywords 14th Amendment, indigenous, uniform commercial code, and/or strawman. If you already know what I am talking about please feel free to vote in the poll and say your piece.



They are lawless cowards sir..

Eagle_and_flag_max50

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Worse than the Muurs (Moors, Indiginace Tribe of the Americas, etc). If these folks don't like our rules, there's plenty of other countries available. Probably won't get far there either!!!


In GOD We Trust (All others get searched, then checked through NCIC)

MODERATOR #10

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1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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WOAH! Someone marked the "patriot" answer. I sure would like to know who did that! I am certain that whomever did has a strong enough argument to back this up.


You can't cure stupid.

Eagle_and_flag_max50

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ajsdaddyCCSO says ...



WOAH! Someone marked the "patriot" answer. I sure would like to know who did that! I am certain that whomever did has a strong enough argument to back this up.



Weren't me!!


In GOD We Trust (All others get searched, then checked through NCIC)

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IN HONOR OF OUR FALLEN

Thorroses_max50

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I agree on that one... WOAH! 


To whoever it was by all means PLEASE step up to the plate.... let us hear your side!!!!

Avatar_max160_max160_max50

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I've handled them a few times in Texas.  Just another criminal.


Hello my name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die.

"It's not a constitutional violation for a police officer to be a jerk." Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy -December 4, 2000

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We had a couple of them pass thru here. They got tickets for traffic violation they threatened to follow the officers home. One them was seen around a few officers station R's. But they eventually moved on.


 

20552_1343137337912_1215571721_31006460_5991340_n_max50

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Use your situational awareness skills on or off duty but especially around the times when you deal with these folks. I've probably dealt with these idiots, I drown out what knuckleheads say, unless it's a direct threat.


I've had one drug dealer track me down and he was one move from finding out if there was an afterlife. Interesting enough, I seen him a few years after he was released from prison at my parent's church on one of my visits, I stopped going to church after that.

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Interesting topic, ajsdaddyCCSO and would LOVE to see some of YOUR research/quotes here.  Can you bust out a few?


(TrafficCop28, sorry to hear you had to change churches due to that POS.  Be curious to know how you 'drown out a knucklehead.'  Maybe some of the LEOs here could hold a seminar on that one???)


From a crime standpoint, the "Sovereign Citizen" crockpot could be described as a toxic stew of criminals and garden-variety wingnuts and simpletons ISO glorifying their natural bent for being arscholes. Ok we can all admit laughing whenever John Q. Public #89 in line groans the DMV is the last vestige of the Stalinist Regime.  But among so-called "Sovereign Citizens" are dirtbags who've figured out a way to make a buck off him.  


FBI website describes the ways in which common criminals aggrandize their criminal enterprises under the aegis "Sovereign Citizen" either in name OR tactically (See #3 below).  


A surprising mixed bagfull of flim flam:


1.  Insurance scams operating outside state regulatory guidelines.  The sky is the limit.  Pay in and when it's time for them to pay out - POOF!  The Sovereign Citizen Scammers vanish like gorillas in the mist.


2.  Issuance of "sovereign status" credentials that guarantee the holder diplomatic immunity (try that one in Mexico, lol) and protection from stops or arrests in the US.  But do they include cool US flag-holders to transform your Toyota into a state car??


3.  The FBI retiree who black-eyed the Bureau. Last year around this time, 67 year old Ret. 26 year FBI agent John Lindsey plead guilty to one count of Federal Tax Evasion for evading approximately $109,000 in personal income tax.  Among the charges are presenting "frivolous financial or  negotiable instruments to the Department of Treasury in claimed payment of his tax liability."  


Read about the investigation by the Nevada Joint Task Force  and a host of agencies tracking Lindsey and his accomplices Samuel Davis and Shawn Rice who allegedly laundered monies for undercover FBI agents to the tune of $1.3 million dollars.


"Friolous financial and negotiable instruments"...Curious to know how THAT evidence is proceeding through the court.  But maybe somebody ELSE can follow up on that??


To get you started -


See Press Releases 2010: FBI Las Vegas Division


US Attorney's Office / District of Nevada


http://www.fbi.gov/lasvegas/press-releases/2010/lv030810a.htm

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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MarlyB says ...



Interesting topic, ajsdaddyCCSO and would LOVE to see some of YOUR research/quotes here.  Can you bust out a few?


(TrafficCop28, sorry to hear you had to change churches due to that POS.  Be curious to know how you 'drown out a knucklehead.'  Maybe some of the LEOs here could hold a seminar on that one???)


From a crime standpoint, the "Sovereign Citizen" crockpot could be described as a toxic stew of criminals and garden-variety wingnuts and simpletons ISO glorifying their natural bent for being arscholes. Ok we can all admit laughing whenever John Q. Public #89 in line groans the DMV is the last vestige of the Stalinist Regime.  But among so-called "Sovereign Citizens" are dirtbags who've figured out a way to make a buck off him.  


FBI website describes the ways in which common criminals aggrandize their criminal enterprises under the aegis "Sovereign Citizen" either in name OR tactically (See #3 below).  


A surprising mixed bagfull of flim flam:


1.  Insurance scams operating outside state regulatory guidelines.  The sky is the limit.  Pay in and when it's time for them to pay out - POOF!  The Sovereign Citizen Scammers vanish like gorillas in the mist.


2.  Issuance of "sovereign status" credentials that guarantee the holder diplomatic immunity (try that one in Mexico, lol) and protection from stops or arrests in the US.  But do they include cool US flag-holders to transform your Toyota into a state car??


3.  The FBI retiree who black-eyed the Bureau. Last year around this time, 67 year old Ret. 26 year FBI agent John Lindsey plead guilty to one count of Federal Tax Evasion for evading approximately $109,000 in personal income tax.  Among the charges are presenting "frivolous financial or  negotiable instruments to the Department of Treasury in claimed payment of his tax liability."  


Read about the investigation by the Nevada Joint Task Force  and a host of agencies tracking Lindsey and his accomplices Samuel Davis and Shawn Rice who allegedly laundered monies for undercover FBI agents to the tune of $1.3 million dollars.


"Friolous financial and negotiable instruments"...Curious to know how THAT evidence is proceeding through the court.  But maybe somebody ELSE can follow up on that??


To get you started -


See Press Releases 2010: FBI Las Vegas Division


US Attorney's Office / District of Nevada


http://www.fbi.gov/lasvegas/press-releases/2010/lv030810a.htm



Ah see, that's wy the topic has been posted. To my knowledge I have yet to encounter one of these whacko's. We had a class up at the NC SBI which brought these nutters to my radar. We live and patrol a pretty rural county. Do some of the folks fit the criteria of these nutters? They sure do. Do I have any personal knowledge of them? Nope. That's why I am asking. Now if you had a topic on pillheads, drunks, child molesters, dope dealers, and general scum of the earth, I got an answer for those topics.


You can't cure stupid.

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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By the way, we are still looking for the nutter who marked "patriots" on the poll. It's a free country, share your views.


You can't cure stupid.

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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ajsdaddyCCSO, I haven't had any personal encounters either, but that didn't preclude my taking a look at where "Sovereign Citizens" pop up on the internet in various forms of the specie.  Why not do this thread the same kind of justice as did DPalmer - in the research department, anyway?  


Sooo...until an LEO outside TrafficCop throwing in on getting stalked by a mutant entitlement freak, whatever your 'Nutters 101'  brought out could surely be edited for public consumption.  Because after reading the FBI's description, I am all eyes.  


As for the Chickenchest who voted "Patriots", then slumped back into Lurkland - a personal note -


Dear No Nards,


Maybe you hate the DMV line as much as I do.  But the part about not being obliged to stop when you see that lightbar a'flashin'?? LOVE to hear THAT rationale.  So grow some, willya?


Yours Truly,


MarlyB


Sovereign Nation Citizen

20552_1343137337912_1215571721_31006460_5991340_n_max50

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MarlyB says ...



(TrafficCop28, sorry to hear you had to change churches due to that POS.  Be curious to know how you 'drown out a knucklehead.'  Maybe some of the LEOs here could hold a seminar on that one???)



MarlyB, it's one of those things that can't be taught but only picked up with time. I'm usually saying things like, "Oh really? I'm sorry you feel that way." "I've already apologized that my mother couldn't keep her hands off you last night." or "I knew my wife is a dirty whore, thanks for telling me about that, now I can get a divorce lawyer." without even thinking about it.


After a while they all start sounding like Charlie Brown's teacher.


Bronzestarribbon_max50

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The ones that I have dealt with in our area are not as organized and I have not run into the sovereign tags and documents a yet.  The ones we have around here are not as organized, but have been a menace and only because they don't follow the law.  You can be a patriot and an outspoken patriot if you choose, but when you break the law and decide to shoot people, threaten the government or kill cops you become a menace.  Everyone deserves a chance, but they only go so far...

Female_bodysurfer_max50

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Your ability to translate verbal abuse into harmless psychobabble is testimony to a certain wisdom in restraint, TrafficCop.  I am afraid I am not so well-equipped!


Read that some Sovereign Citizens attempt to clog up court proceedings with the 'Capital Letters Argument.'  They claim court documents giving their proper names in all caps are illegal documents because their names aren't written that way, so the documents must be addressing someone else.  These claims are dismissed out of hand.


Some Sovereign Citizen arguments claim banks can't own property.  The idea is to locate bank-owned homes, change the locks, move in and hang out "No Trespassing" signs.  Banks do have legal interest in properties.  


Sovereign Citizen Snake Oil is just...um..well...snake oil.


And no, these don't work either - 



 


 


 


TrafficCop28 says ...



MarlyB says ...



(TrafficCop28, sorry to hear you had to change churches due to that POS.  Be curious to know how you 'drown out a knucklehead.'  Maybe some of the LEOs here could hold a seminar on that one???)



MarlyB, it's one of those things that can't be taught but only picked up with time. I'm usually saying things like, "Oh really? I'm sorry you feel that way." "I've already apologized that my mother couldn't keep her hands off you last night." or "I knew my wife is a dirty whore, thanks for telling me about that, now I can get a divorce lawyer." without even thinking about it.


After a while they all start sounding like Charlie Brown's teacher.



Female_bodysurfer_max50

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But what collector of 21st Century Memorabilia could turn down a REAL McCOY vehicle registration card issued by the Kingdom of Heaven?


Traffic Officer:  And just where, Sir, is the Kingdom of Heaven?


Sovereign Citizen:  In Stayton Oregon, Officer.  And NO it's NOT the STATE of Oregon in the UNITED STATES.  It's the Oregon in HEAVEN. SHEESH, NO WONDER I don't pay taxes!!"


 


 


Hmmmm....Wonder what St. Peter (or is it St. Paul Bunyan?) charges for one of THESE?? lol


 


Thorroses_max50

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WOW MarlyB!


I'm glad that I took a step back before I opened my mouth and firmly planted my foot inside. I'm going to have to step back even further now that I know where you stand as I feel that you are a valued friend and member of PL.


I personally don't disagree with people bucking the system. However when it comes to Government issues (which sometimes make me feel like a child because I want to kick & scream) I feel that if people want to push for Constitutional Rights than they must abide by them as well. Thus I pay all my taxes & file all my lovely paperwork.


Now I'm not saying that you do/don't MarlyB...


What I am saying is I believe that no matter what title is given to what group there is always a few with in that group that stand out and make them all look bad. Rather than jump to post my first feelings on this subject I allowed time for self education....

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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There is some good information being passed on. What the sovereign citizen movement is, it is a scam. The "leaders" of these groups may have once been true believers however now they are tax cheats and scam people who are down on their luck by telling them "hey look, if ypu join us and pay us $75 for a fake ID and $250 for a fake license plate we can show you how to avoid government regulation". Some of the things we saw up at the SBI were phony ID's, plates, vehicle registration documentation, etc. It is a typical pyramid scheme with those at the top making the most $$$$. Why do people fall for it? In this economy some folks are looking for a "boogeyman" (in this case the government). Personally I can see some of their ideas as valid however, when they have "county rangers" out trying to serve subpoenas on LEO or judges and trying to make arrests from their kangaroo courts AND you have these whacko's out there armed (maybe legally) and then encountering LEO, I got a problem with that. In a nation of laws when laws are ignored we end up in anarchy. I appreciate the responses so far. What I would appreciate more is LEO encounters (and locations by PM). Apparently there is a problem here in North Carolina in the piedmont area of the state. Any LEO's from that area wish to share?


You can't cure stupid.

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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Oh and hey there is a second taker on the "patriot" answer. Whoever is clicking thst answer please come and have a discussion.


You can't cure stupid.

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I can see how people can easily get caught up in this.. hey i want my *strawman* account! jk

Caduceus_max50

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Bump to all who posses common sense. These folks are a Menace!


Doc


Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
Troll Hunter, "Doc", LEO Supporter.
It's not the falling down, it's the staying down.

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