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Poll: Which will you enforce/uphold? The other side

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Poll: Which will you enforce/uphold? The other side

Homer_nytp_max50

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Posted over 1 year ago

 

First I put the question to all LEOs because of my concerns for the loss of freedoms guaranteed to all by the US Constitution.  This is my effort to bring awareness to the freedoms that we are losing. I am reminded that if the active LEOs treat people with disrespect because of the sense of power we have in carrying the badge it surely will one day catch up with us. There comes a time when the US Constitution must be looked at & refreshed in our memory banks. Although, those in law enforcement are called to serve and protect, it is the US Constitution that ultimately we are sworn to defend from enemies both foreign and demestic. So, the real question becomes, have LEOs become the enemies of the US Constitution?


I am reminded of that little cuban boy that was forcefully removed from his family in Florida to be sent back to a Communist country. And again, I think of those that have been arrested for exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. So, again I ask which will you uphold or enforce? Will it be the laws that violate the US Constitution? or will it be the Constitution that gives a LEO the power to serve and protect. Sure it is not an easy thing to choose from, especially when receiving a check depends on obedience to doing what our Supervisors tell us to do.


I remember years ago when I drove a sgt and a drunk victim around trying to point out the perp. It was not more than 10 minutes when I realized & not the sgt, that this victim was pointing to every person wearing a red jacket. The sgt didn't listen and instructed me to arrest a young boy with a red jacket and I as a new rookie felt I had no choice and placed this boy under arrest. Being fresh from the academy all the laws and US Constitution were ringing in my ears, and yet for reasons that pressured me I just chose to obey and take the path of least resistance. This has never left my memory even after so many years.


So, in light of these difficult times that we live in, I want to ask you to think about this and consider if earning a paycheck is worth violating the Constitutional rights that we were sworn to defend. I can make this a very long article with many examples that I remember from my days on the force, but I think that if I can just get you to consider the question I will have achieved my purpose in raising this topic.


Thanks for your input.

White_shirt_max50

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Rated +2 | Posted over 1 year ago

 

Personally, I feel this is a loaded question. Wasn't this posted once before? I will keep my feelings on this topic to myself.

Bronzestarribbon_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted over 1 year ago

 

I see the perplexity here for a young rookie officer and maybe it was the times or nerves and fear?  My personal opinion is that no I would not allow myself to do that. 


On a more obvious note It has never happened to me so it's easy for me to say that and fortunately I have some years under my duty belt and have realized that I was looking for a job when I found this one and can always find another somewhere else.


I can understand the immediate thought, but this is evidently a weighing regret for you to overcome.  I hope that you have come to terms and have done your best to right the wrong after that day.  All the best...

Csi_squirrle_max600_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

Huh?  I read the OP three times and still don't know what he's talking about.

Wredcedar_max50

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mmmm says ...



Huh?  I read the OP three times and still don't know what he's talking about.



Agree, you couldn't 'enforce' the constitution as it is not a set of laws, and  I really don't consider myelf enforcing laws, I cause people to go to court where the judicial system/judge enforces the law.

Homer_nytp_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

MMMM, Cedardale,


Perhaps I am just thinking out laud and yet have not expressed myself well enough on my point. I think of certain situations that a LEO finds themselves in these days that although it might be "alright" to arrest someone, yet we ourselves violate people's constitutional rights in doing so. Thus my question, "which will you uphold?"


Take for example Dearborn, Michigan. It has always been an expression of the first Amendment right to share ones faith via leaflets or preaching in a public place. This use to be recognised everywhere in the US, but recently I saw a video of a trooper that arrested a man for not stopping when the Trooper told him to stop giving out the religious leaflets.  When I saw this I just thought about all the so called laws that LEOs enforce that really violate people's constitutional rights. In Dearborn, Christians are being arrested for handing out leaflets and escorted out of city limits. I can't imagine how LEOs today can so easilly enforce such laws.


This topic may not matter to you much now, but I believe that as things continue to change in America, LEOs will find themselves having to make very difficult and troubling descisions in what they are told to uphold, or at least for those that give some thought to what and why they do what they do.


NYC for me was such a place, where some laws violate constitutional rights, and yet we blindly enforce these laws because we are doing a job for a paycheck.


Uncledennis1, perhaps you are right and this is infact a very loaded question. I know many LEOs that understand my point and are doing the best they can in these changing times, yet also many that couldn't care less about the greater issues of constitutional rights. The pay check is more important.


I will thus leave it, and consider it no more. Be well.

Clouds_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

Once an LEO starts making his decisions to enforce or not enforce a law based on his/her personal politics or religious beliefs he/she has started down a very dangerous road.  Remember that laws are passed in this nation by the people of this nation through their elected representatives.  Who are we to decide they are wrong?  I ask you, if a white supremict group was passing out literature asking people to attend their "church"  would you be as upset?  If a Muslim group was passing out literature stating they do not approve of girls in school would you afford them the same protection?


On a side note.  Remember video does not lie but editing does.  Do not take what you see in video's at face value.  Unless you shot the video yourself, and was there to witness the incident from start to finish you cannot know the entire story. 

Th_detective_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

Enforce the laws of the land and let the courrts argue the Constitutionality of the laws and the related arrests.  I was unaware that we had reached the point where we, as sworn law enforcement personnel, could pick and choose the laws we would enforce.


"Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected."
Steve Jobs

Retleo (MODERATOR #8)
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1979_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 1 year ago

 

Cedardale is correct, the USC is not a set of laws, it is a guideline for laws. You as a LEO enforce the laws as they are written and the judge and jury are the ones that figure out if the law that you arrested them under is Constitutional, not you. If it is obviously wrong then you are correct in refusing to obey the orders but, be forewarned, you had better be right or you will at the very least be looking for a job and you also may be subject to arrest yourself for violating the law yourself!


The situation with your Sgt that you described has nothing to do with the Constitution and everything to do with your opinion. You have every right to tell your Sgt. that you believe the ID to be faulty and ask him to effect the arrest. If he orders you to arrest the suspect them you either quit or follow orders and then register your objections later. Again, be prepared to have the $#it hit the fan for a rookie part-timer to question a full-time Sgt and tell him he is doing his job incorrectly.

First-frangipani-flower-2011-2012-1_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 1 year ago

 

LEOs responding here raise an important issue ! 


Maybe a lot of civilians confuse police discretion with constitutionality issues?? That somehow the officer's opinion on a law's constitutionality might form the basis of issuing a warning rather than a citation, etc.?  That is NOT the case. 


It would be a horror to live in a society where LEOs endow themselves as 'street-side legislators' then cherry-pick which laws they care to enforce!


We expect those we place in the public trust to remain impartial!

1067_med_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 1 year ago

 

I believe the term covering all this is called 'Due Process'?


Is it cherry-picking to not pull everyone over that doesn't use their turn signal? I imagine if LEOs had to enforce the turn signal law every time it was broken our society would pretty much come to a halt. At least in my neigborhood it would. No one uses them. Ever. Unless maybe a cop is right behind them... then maybe.

 


I don't believe in an eye for an eye...I believe in two eyes for an eye.

First-frangipani-flower-2011-2012-1_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 1 year ago

 

Actually. rarebit, this topic does not boil down to the term 'due process'.  Due process has to do with observing a persons legal rights according to the rule of law. 


LEOs here are not addressing underenforcement - something that occurs for many reasons.  Be interested to know more about your town.


Rather, LEOs here dispel the notion that officers exercise authority based upon their interpretation of the constitutionality of the laws they are encharged to enforce.


From Wikipedia: "Due process is the legal requirement that the state must respect all of the legal rights that are owed to a person. Due process balances the power of law of the land and protects individual persons from it. When a government harms a person without following the exact course of the law, this constitutes a due-process violation, which offends against the rule of law."


 


rarebit says ...



I believe the term covering all this is called 'Due Process'?


Is it cherry-picking to not pull everyone over that doesn't use their turn signal? I imagine if LEOs had to enforce the turn signal law every time it was broken our society would pretty much come to a halt. At least in my neigborhood it would. No one uses them. Ever. Unless maybe a cop is right behind them... then maybe.

 


1067_med_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 1 year ago

 

MarlyB says ...



Actually. rarebit, this topic does not boil down to the term 'due process'.  Due process has to do with observing a persons legal rights according to the rule of law. 


LEOs here are not addressing underenforcement - something that occurs for many reasons.  Be interested to know more about your town.


Rather, LEOs here dispel the notion that officers exercise authority based upon their interpretation of the constitutionality of the laws they are encharged to enforce.


From Wikipedia: "Due process is the legal requirement that the state must respect all of the legal rights that are owed to a person. Due process balances the power of law of the land and protects individual persons from it. When a government harms a person without following the exact course of the law, this constitutes a due-process violation, which offends against the rule of law."



Well I suppose if this guy went in to the courtroom and stated the victim was pointing out everyone with a red jacket on then yes, it absolutely would not boil down to due process for this one boy who was placed under arrest. So in that sense you are correct and the judge would likely agree with you. 


I live in Las Vegas where yellow lights mean 'hit the gas'. Come out and visit sometime.


I don't believe in an eye for an eye...I believe in two eyes for an eye.

First-frangipani-flower-2011-2012-1_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 1 year ago

 

Yes - that is how due process works. And that is why, under the aforementioned circumstances, an arresting officer most likely would have additional reasons to arrest for probable cause other than the suspect wore a red jacket. 


The likelihood of seeing the case thrown out is why the OP's account is in question here.


Anyway, there are plenty of internet references to due process -


"The Constitution states only one command twice. The Fifth Amendment says to the federal government that no one shall be "deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law." The Fourteenth Amendment, ratified in 1868, uses the same eleven words, called the Due Process Clause, to describe a legal obligation of all states. These words have as their central promise an assurance that all levels of American government must operate within the law ("legality") and provide fair procedures. Most of this essay concerns that promise. We should briefly note, however, three other uses these words have had in American constitutional law."


http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/due_process


 


rarebit says ...



MarlyB says ...



Actually. rarebit, this topic does not boil down to the term 'due process'.  Due process has to do with observing a person's legal rights according to the rule of law. 


LEOs here are not addressing underenforcement - something that occurs for many reasons.  Be interested to know more about your town.


Rather, LEOs here dispel the notion that officers exercise authority based upon their interpretation of the constitutionality of the laws they are encharged to enforce.


From Wikipedia: "Due process is the legal requirement that the state must respect all of the legal rights that are owed to a person. Due process balances the power of law of the land and protects individual persons from it. When a government harms a person without following the exact course of the law, this constitutes a due-process violation, which offends against the rule of law."



Well I suppose if this guy went in to the courtroom and stated the victim was pointing out everyone with a red jacket on then yes, it absolutely would not boil down to due process for this one boy who was placed under arrest. So in that sense you are correct and the judge would likely agree with you. 


I live in Las Vegas where yellow lights mean 'hit the gas'. Come out and visit sometime.