Law Enforcement Specialties >> Special Units (K9, SWAT, etc.) >> Are Dobermans still being used in LE?

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Are Dobermans still being used in LE?

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12_week_old_brindle_male_pm_max50

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Posted about 3 years ago

 

I raised and bred Dobermans my whole life and was wondering if they are still being used in LE? Also, my next dog I want to get is a Presa Canario K9 Trained or not, still undecided. I want a female bashe with a black mask. Who is familiar with this breed besides the bad rep they got from the Majorie Noller case in San Fran? Thank you, Big Dog Lover!!

Th_germanshepard_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

You may see one on occasion. Personally, I haven't seen  or  heard of one in years. Mostly they are bunch of nerve bags.


DFrost


Beyond fatigue lies compensatory hypertrophy

Untitledma28839986-0002_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

I have never seen a Dobermen used in LE in my career.

John_groh_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

We had one back in the late 80s eary 90s.  But I have not seen one used since then.

John_groh_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

He was good.  He did have a hyper problem but the Officer was able to keep him under control.   But them again I have seen Shepards that were just as bad.

12_week_old_brindle_male_pm_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

To the guy saying they are nerve bags I disagree I have had so many, that the males are usually a lot more calm cool and collective,. For some reason the females tend to be a bit anxious and nervous to a certain extent.. Also, they are very high strung. Good point. Thanks to all.

12_week_old_brindle_male_pm_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

Top_Cat says ...

I've seen that in some of the Shepards too and never liked it.  Alert is good, hyper isn't.


wiseass0282 says ...



He was good.  He did have a hyper problem but the Officer was able to keep him under control.   But them again I have seen Shepards that were just as bad.


I understand. Thank you!

Th_germanshepard_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

Quartergasket says ...


To the guy saying they are nerve bags I disagree I have had so many, that the males are usually a lot more calm cool and collective,. For some reason the females tend to be a bit anxious and nervous to a certain extent.. Also, they are very high strung. Good point. Thanks to all.




I'm the guy. A 45 year career trainer of police service dogs. I'm not a vendor or a private trainer. I train for a state police agency. Retired after 23 years in the military dog program. They didn't use Dobes in the military either, at least not after the 1950's.  There is a reason they aren't used that often in law enforcement or the military. They are nerve bags. Sure you my find one on occasion that isn't, but like I said, there is a reason you don't see them used.






Beyond fatigue lies compensatory hypertrophy

Thorroses_max50

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Rated +5 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

I've been around all kinds of dogs and every breed out there. Even purebred wolves. While some breeds tend to lean more toward calm, cool, and collective. Others lean more toward hyper, high strung, and nervious. All dogs were breed for different reasons. EX Dachshunds were mainly breed for badger hunting, Great Danes for boar hunting.... Keep in mind the preconceived ideas about male/female dogs. It is true that a female dog tends to be better with children. And a male dog tends to be better in the working fields. However that does NOT mean that every male/female dog falls into these categories. MOST dogs if raised under the right care can be brought up to do what is asked of them. I have seen some dogs, just like people, that can not be taught. Regardless of breed! So when it's said that Dobies are RARE in the LEO or Military field. Please Understand that LEO's and Military have leaned more toward German Shepherds over the last 40-50yrs BECAUSE they get the best results from that particular breed. So chances are when there's a Dobie in the field it's because the trainner noticed an exceptional pup in a litter.


Note: The runt of a litter tends to be the smartest.


I have worked with Police Dogs and many of them were Retrievers who proformed great in the field!


I had a Great Dane once, adopted at the age of 7, who would have been a great drug dog! Why? Because her previous owner did drugs then beat her, so everytime she was around someone who had drugs on their person she would try to eat them!!

12_week_old_brindle_male_pm_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

Thanks dlrpjem!!

Th_avatar_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

 A Dobe good enough to do police work is extremely difficult to find. The majority of good ones are rarely let go by their owners. The Dobe is easily broken during the rigorous police training that the job requires.  Long, thin bones just don't seem to hold up. Also, the Dobe doesn't enjoy the best reputation among the public. The general consensus among the American public is the old wives' tale that the Dobe will turn on it's owner at some predetermined point in time is but just one hurdle the breed has to jump in the public eye. 


 The last non GSD or Malinois PSD I saw was a Rottie back in 1991.

Thorroses_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

Something you might also want to keep in mind is that all Vets and most dog trainners will tell you if you want a good dog have them FIXED at 6mo of age...

Th_germanshepard_max50

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Rated -1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

dlrpjem says ...



Something you might also want to keep in mind is that all Vets and most dog trainners will tell you if you want a good dog have them FIXED at 6mo of age...


 


 


 


 


 


 


NOOOOOOO!!!!   I don't know what dog trainers you are talking about, but certainly NOT police dog trainers. A dog isn't fully matured until a minimum of 18 months, Six months is not good advice for working dogs. Generally, males are not neutered unless medically required. Bitches are routinely spayed because they are a PITA when in season. I'd like to know how many police dogs you've selected for training and trained. I should think one would have significant experience before giving such advice. Me, I'm somewhere around four thousand, give or take a few.


 


 


 


 



Beyond fatigue lies compensatory hypertrophy

Thorroses_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

There are a lot of breeds that people have preconceived ideas about. Many breeds have been labled as "Unsafe" the type that will turn on you. This is not always true! I have seen Pits that were raised and turned out to be very obediant, trustworthy, and loyal dogs. I will say this though most Pits in order to make a good dog out of them, due to their hyper personality, you have to be right on top of them for the first two years of their life. This preconcieved idea that Pits are unstable and turn on their owners, stems from the fact that during the late 1800's to early 1900's many Pitbulls were inbreed for build and blood line. This caused a genetic defect in which the brain would grow to a size larger than the skull. In such a case pressure began to cause headachs and severe pain. Then brain damage, after which they unknowingly would attack their beloved owners along with their own family. Keep in mind this is also the time when Rabies was first being seen and had yet to be researched. If you don't know much about Rabies than let me tell you that the Rabies virus causes swelling of the brain that can be very painful. If untreated immediately it will cause death due to swelling of the brain and airways. Now that people are more educated in the affects of inbreeding and Rabies this has become less of a problem.

Th_germanshepard_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

dlrpjem says: "this caused a genetic defect in which the brain would grow to a size larger than the skull. In such a case pressure began to cause headachs and severe pain. Then brain damage, after which they unknowingly would attack their beloved owners along with their own family. Keep in mind this is also the time when Rabies was first being seen and had yet to be researched."


 


Show me the study that says this. That is nonsense. I don't know where you come up with your information, but geez louise that is just pure bull muffins. Rabies certainly is painful. It's also almost 100% fatal once contracted. 


Beyond fatigue lies compensatory hypertrophy

Thorroses_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

I never said that this is the case when training a police dog. Yes you are correct! It is best for male dogs to be Neutered with in a few weeks of their balls dropping. (It also makes it easier to do the procedure when their balls have dropped!) As to prevent a stunt in their maturing! The simple fact of the matter is that they tend to be more open to learning when not worrying about sniffing butts, licking balls and hiking their legs.


 


I never said you should do it or that all dogs should be. I personally have had several unfixed dogs, that were GREAT dogs. Personally I think it's inhumane! I'm not a Vet! I have trained many dogs and the bottom line to training a dog is!!!!! YOU have to be smarter than it!!!!


DFrost says ...



 


 


NOOOOOOO!!!!   I don't know what dog trainers you are talking about, but certainly NOT police dog trainers. A dog isn't fully matured until a minimum of 18 months, Six months is not good advice for working dogs. Generally, males are not neutered unless medically required. Bitches are routinely spayed because they are a PITA when in season. I'd like to know how many police dogs you've selected for training and trained. I should think one would have significant experience before giving such advice. Me, I'm somewhere around four thousand, give or take a few.


 


  


 


100_0325_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

You don't cut a dog until they have matured. I have a 4 year old Rottie that is not cut and may never be. He is the best natured dog I have ever met. He loves to be around people and if someone were to try to hurt my family, I am sure they would have to kill him first. He is my other "son", he is constantly under my feet when I do get to go home. He is by far the best dog that I have ever had.  

Th_germanshepard_max50

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Rated -1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

You really have very little knowledge about dogs. That is evident in the comments you've made. You are in a Law enforement, K9 forum. So when you speak of dogs etc, it's assumed you are speaking of police working dogs. The information you have given about neutering is absolutely not correct. The information you've given about pit bulls and their brain swelling in their heads is beyond belief.  I can sense you have no experiecne with working dogs. For me it's not a hobby, it's been a career. I can only say, bull muffins.


Beyond fatigue lies compensatory hypertrophy

Thorroses_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

Go back and read a little more carefully I think you missed something.............


DFrost says ...



You really have very little knowledge about dogs. That is evident in the comments you've made. You are in a Law enforement, K9 forum. So when you speak of dogs etc, it's assumed you are speaking of police working dogs. The information you have given about neutering is absolutely not correct. The information you've given about pit bulls and their brain swelling in their heads is beyond belief.  I can sense you have no experiecne with working dogs. For me it's not a hobby, it's been a career. I can only say, bull muffins.


Th_germanshepard_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

I haven't missed a thing. Your advice is off the mark and ill advised. It is not from a postion of knowledge. I smile 90% of the time. It's hard not to when you enjoy your work. What I don't find amusing is someone that gives very bad advice relative a career I've spent over 45 years promoting.


Beyond fatigue lies compensatory hypertrophy

Thorroses_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

dlrpjem says ...



Something you might also want to keep in mind is that all Vets and most dog trainners will tell you if you want a good dog have them FIXED at 6mo of age...



Ok what I should have said is:


Something you might also want to keep in mind is that all Vets and MOST Local NON-LE obediance trainners will tell you if you want a good dog have them FIXED at a young age... Vets will tell you a good age for Females is around 6-8 months old and no more than 18 months because you want to catch them before their firs heat. Which occures between 18 months and 2 yrs of age. Most dog breeders will tell you not to do it till after their first heat. Show breeders will say if you wait till after their first heat be sure to crate them when they are in heat you don't want a saggy teated female in the show ring. Some Vets will tell you for a male it should be done before their balls drop. Most will tell you that it should be done with in the first few weeks after they have dropped making the surgery easier and giving them time to mature. Most breeders will tell you if you want them as an indoor dog have it done before they gain any sense of male dominance.


OK I think I spelled it out better there!

Thorroses_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

Be Nice!


DFrost says ...



I haven't missed a thing. Your advice is off the mark and ill advised. It is not from a postion of knowledge. I smile 90% of the time. It's hard not to when you enjoy your work. What I don't find amusing is someone that gives very bad advice relative a career I've spent over 45 years promoting.


Thorroses_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

You know what they say......


DFrost says ...



You really have very little knowledge about dogs. That is evident in the comments you've made. You are in a Law enforement, K9 forum. So when you speak of dogs etc, it's assumed you are speaking of police working dogs. The information you have given about neutering is absolutely not correct. The information you've given about pit bulls and their brain swelling in their heads is beyond belief.  I can sense you have no experiecne with working dogs. For me it's not a hobby, it's been a career. I can only say, bull muffins.


Thorroses_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

Oh and I should have gone back in the date late 1800's because the inbreeding began in around 40 AD when the Roman Empire started using them as fighting dogs. However they leaned more toward the Bull Mastiff's. But I figured that since that is when most of the inbreeding problems were discovered along with rabies it would be enough. MY BAD!

100_0325_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

WOW!! This is starting to get ugly, may have to put the dog up and get the shotgun to defend myself here. Everyone has their own idea on what is best. Now I do tend to believe someone who has spent many years working around dogs but that is not the point of the matter here. Not trying to take a side here, just standing on my own two feet. I do not believe there is a "Bad" breed of dogs, they are like kids. It is all on how you raise them. I have seen great Pits, Roties, Dobies... All of which are banned in military housing areas. I can no longer live "on-post" because I have a Rottie that is affraid of the dark. The policy is very specific to what breeds can not be on post but, it also states that any dog that runs up and down the fence and displays aggresive behavior is banned also. That would apply to every little ankle biting, carpet chewing, crumb snatching dog out there.

Thorroses_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

Top_Cat I do as well and never ment to strike a nerve with him. He has many years of experiance. I thank him for all the great hard work he has done. I would be honored to shake his hand and feel that because of men like him and the dogs he has trained the world is a better place. I do understand that he is very passionate about his life's work probably even more so than I am about dogs in general. However, I did not attack him when he disagreed with me. Nor would I ever!

Thorroses_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

I have more than 20 yrs experiance working with dogs and training them. I have taken in several who where battered, brutally beaten and some that were red collared ( in line to be put down). They all turned out to be great dogs. I have never been bitten by a dog. Even the ones that people said were crazy and mean. I've worked with purebreed wolves. I've seen stupid dogs and stupid people! However it's very rare to see a stupid dog that didn't get that way because of a stupid person!!

Th_germanshepard_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 3 years ago

 

None of the advice given by dlrpjem is based on fact. I don't mind a good discussion and we all know that the only thing two trainers can agree on is; the third trainer is wrong. None-the-less, it's not the tone of the discussion, the disagreements or the breed of dogs being discussed. The information provided is in fact, wrong, based on wives-tales and superstition. Beyond that, I'm done with this discussion.


 


DFrost


Beyond fatigue lies compensatory hypertrophy

Thorroses_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 

Ok here's one. I'll have to see if my grandfather still has the hand written documents from his ancestors.


www. ukcpitbull.com /encyclopedia/tiki-index.php?page=Inbreeding


There are added spaces because I don't know how to post the link with out it poping up prohibited HTML

Thorroses_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 3 years ago

 


From: pitbullregistry.com

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