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Obama tells Israel to go back to 1967 borders

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P_p_max50

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Posted almost 3 years ago

 

According to the news, the POTUS just said the American position on Israel/Palestine is for Israel to go back to their 1967 borders. Whaddya think?


Never, never, never give up. - Winston Churchill

Crumb_passin_thru_02_1__max50

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Rated +2 | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

My feelings--in the larger context of all the comments, it is a necessary ingredient to long-term stability.


Here are his full comments on the conflict, including--among other things--unequivocal support for Israel's security: 


For decades, the conflict between Israelis and Arabs has cast a shadow over the region.  For Israelis, it has meant living with the fear that their children could be blown up on a bus or by rockets fired at their homes, as well as the pain of knowing that other children in the region are taught to hate them.  For Palestinians, it has meant suffering the humiliation of occupation, and never living in a nation of their own. Moreover, this conflict has come with a larger cost to the Middle East, as it impedes partnerships that could bring greater security and prosperity and empowerment to ordinary people.


For over two years, my administration has worked with the parties and the international community to end this conflict, building on decades of work by previous administrations.  Yet expectations have gone unmet.  Israeli settlement activity continues.  Palestinians have walked away from talks.  The world looks at a conflict that has grinded on and on and on, and sees nothing but stalemate.  Indeed, there are those who argue that with all the change and uncertainty in the region, it is simply not possible to move forward now.


I disagree.  At a time when the people of the Middle East and North Africa are casting off the burdens of the past, the drive for a lasting peace that ends the conflict and resolves all claims is more urgent than ever.  That’s certainly true for the two parties involved.


For the Palestinians, efforts to delegitimize Israel will end in failure.  Symbolic actions to isolate Israel at the United Nations in September won’t create an independent state. Palestinian leaders will not achieve peace or prosperity if Hamas insists on a path of terror and rejection.  And Palestinians will never realize their independence by denying the right of Israel to exist.


As for Israel, our friendship is rooted deeply in a shared history and shared values.  Our commitment to Israel’s security is unshakeable. And we will stand against attempts to single it out for criticism in international forums.  But precisely because of our friendship, it’s important that we tell the truth:  The status quo is unsustainable, and Israel too must act boldly to advance a lasting peace.


The fact is, a growing number of Palestinians live west of the Jordan River.  Technology will make it harder for Israel to defend itself.  A region undergoing profound change will lead to populism in which millions of people -– not just one or two leaders -- must believe peace is possible.  The international community is tired of an endless process that never produces an outcome. The dream of a Jewish and democratic state cannot be fulfilled with permanent occupation.


Now, ultimately, it is up to the Israelis and Palestinians to take action.  No peace can be imposed upon them -- not by the United States; not by anybody else.  But endless delay won’t make the problem go away.  What America and the international community can do is to state frankly what everyone knows -- a lasting peace will involve two states for two peoples:  Israel as a Jewish state and the homeland for the Jewish people, and the state of Palestine as the homeland for the Palestinian people, each state enjoying self-determination, mutual recognition, and peace.


So while the core issues of the conflict must be negotiated, the basis of those negotiations is clear:  a viable Palestine, a secure Israel. The United States believes that negotiations should result in two states, with permanent Palestinian borders with Israel, Jordan, and Egypt, and permanent Israeli borders with Palestine.  We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states.  The Palestinian people must have the right to govern themselves, and reach their full potential, in a sovereign and contiguous state. 


As for security, every state has the right to self-defense, and Israel must be able to defend itself -– by itself -– against any threat.  Provisions must also be robust enough to prevent a resurgence of terrorism, to stop the infiltration of weapons, and to provide effective border security.  The full and phased withdrawal of Israeli military forces should be coordinated with the assumption of Palestinian security responsibility in a sovereign, non-militarized state.  And the duration of this transition period must be agreed, and the effectiveness of security arrangements must be demonstrated.


These principles provide a foundation for negotiations.  Palestinians should know the territorial outlines of their state; Israelis should know that their basic security concerns will be met.  I’m aware that these steps alone will not resolve the conflict, because two wrenching and emotional issues will remain:  the future of Jerusalem, and the fate of Palestinian refugees.  But moving forward now on the basis of territory and security provides a foundation to resolve those two issues in a way that is just and fair, and that respects the rights and aspirations of both Israelis and Palestinians. 


Now, let me say this:  Recognizing that negotiations need to begin with the issues of territory and security does not mean that it will be easy to come back to the table.  In particular, the recent announcement of an agreement between Fatah and Hamas raises profound and legitimate questions for Israel:  How can one negotiate with a party that has shown itself unwilling to recognize your right to exist?  And in the weeks and months to come, Palestinian leaders will have to provide a credible answer to that question.  Meanwhile, the United States, our Quartet partners, and the Arab states will need to continue every effort to get beyond the current impasse.


I recognize how hard this will be.  Suspicion and hostility has been passed on for generations, and at times it has hardened. But I’m convinced that the majority of Israelis and Palestinians would rather look to the future than be trapped in the past.  We see that spirit in the Israeli father whose son was killed by Hamas, who helped start an organization that brought together Israelis and Palestinians who had lost loved ones.  That father said, “I gradually realized that the only hope for progress was to recognize the face of the conflict.”  We see it in the actions of a Palestinian who lost three daughters to Israeli shells in Gaza.  “I have the right to feel angry,” he said.  “So many people were expecting me to hate.  My answer to them is I shall not hate.  Let us hope,” he said, “for tomorrow.”


That is the choice that must be made -– not simply in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but across the entire region -– a choice between hate and hope; between the shackles of the past and the promise of the future.  It’s a choice that must be made by leaders and by the people, and it’s a choice that will define the future of a region that served as the cradle of civilization and a crucible of strife.


For all the challenges that lie ahead, we see many reasons to be hopeful.  In Egypt, we see it in the efforts of young people who led protests.  In Syria, we see it in the courage of those who brave bullets while chanting, “peaceful, peaceful.”  In Benghazi, a city threatened with destruction, we see it in the courthouse square where people gather to celebrate the freedoms that they had never known.  Across the region, those rights that we take for granted are being claimed with joy by those who are prying lose the grip of an iron fist.


For the American people, the scenes of upheaval in the region may be unsettling, but the forces driving it are not unfamiliar.  Our own nation was founded through a rebellion against an empire.  Our people fought a painful Civil War that extended freedom and dignity to those who were enslaved.  And I would not be standing here today unless past generations turned to the moral force of nonviolence as a way to perfect our union –- organizing, marching, protesting peacefully together to make real those words that declared our nation:  “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.” 


Those words must guide our response to the change that is transforming the Middle East and North Africa -– words which tell us that repression will fail, and that tyrants will fall, and that every man and woman is endowed with certain inalienable rights. 


It will not be easy.  There’s no straight line to progress, and hardship always accompanies a season of hope.  But the United States of America was founded on the belief that people should govern themselves.  And now we cannot hesitate to stand squarely on the side of those who are reaching for their rights, knowing that their success will bring about a world that is more peaceful, more stable, and more just.


Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you.


END 1:00 P.M. EDT




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

P_p_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

It's a nice speech and all, but I don't know if the Israelis and Arabs can ever really get along.


Never, never, never give up. - Winston Churchill

Crumb_passin_thru_02_1__max50

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Rated +1 | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

Hm. I'm not convinced you read it--but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Surely the only option is to try. Letting it "bleed out" (so to speak) doesn't sound like the right decision.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

P_p_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

I didn't thoroughly read it, but I did give it my best scan. I agree, something's got to give, but that's OLD hatred among some of them.


Never, never, never give up. - Winston Churchill

Crumb_passin_thru_02_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

True--and that's why the solution builds in safeguards for all parties, heavy on Israel's right to exist, of course.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

Crumb_passin_thru_02_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

Listen, Bill--I gotta split for awhile--and I promised myself I'd normalize my sleep schedule, but I'll leave you with this last thought. 


I promise you it's more than a "nice speech"--it's packed with very sensible advice for the parties involved. Read the whole thing--it wont take long. You'll be glad you did.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

P_p_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

Will do, mz.


Never, never, never give up. - Winston Churchill

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

ANOTHER bad decision. Israel is the only country in the world which wins lands by forced wars not of their choosing and then are forced to return those hard-earned gains. Bad advice from a POTUS that does not have THEIR country's best interests at heart. You folks do realize it is their country right? I am wondering if POTUS knows Israel is about the only country in the M.E. that doesn't want to blow us all to hell? Seriously doubtful.


You can't cure stupid.

Img_0010__2__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

It's a bad move and one day before the Israeli PM comes to D.C. He's gonna get a lot of donors upset with him.


PL MENTORING TEAM MEMBER

"Don't underestimate the drawing power of the Garden State." From the film "Dogma"

Trying to stay sane in an insane world...

Crumb_passin_thru_02_1__max50

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Rated +1 | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

Before this goes too far, I'll remind folks that in spite of what the topic title is, nobody's telling Israel what to do.


My take--if it can bring relative peace and security to the region the relevant parties need to start talking.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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Rated -1 | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

MZ, did it bring peace to Israel pre-1967 when they were attacked without provocation? There is nobody in the M.E. that wants that country there. Even if Israel was to return to the 1967 borders more demands would be made to the point where Israel would not exist anymore.


You can't cure stupid.

Crumb_passin_thru_02_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

After 44 years people are tired of the bloodshed. Enough said.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

44 years? This has been going on for thousands of years. The Jews that occupy Israel have been attacked by every single nation for centuries. Then when they fight back (and lose) they lose everything. When they fight back (and win) they are expected to lose everything. How about addressing the problems with the troublemakers and telling the arabs to back off instead?


You can't cure stupid.

Crumb_passin_thru_02_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

I'm aware of the history, ajs. I was just referring to the current conflict and using 1967 as a point since you brought up the unprovoked attack. I'm sorry--you just like to be contrary. I'm done in here. I can't be bothered to try to explain anything when someone's determined not to listen. Enjoy.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

Yeah ok. You have failed to answer the question. Also if you know the history then why go after the VICTIM in this? It is not that people are being contrary for no reason at all the fact of the matter is history has been in front of us for only a short amount of time. This is something that has been happening for ages. People try to use reference points incorrectly and then try to tell people (and countries) how to deal with their problems. Let Israel alone. In fact, cut them loose to deal with the situation at hand. Can you imagine the day when a country tells us how to act after we've been attacked? Oh and don't bother to try and explain anything, we can agree to disagree. My point of view is most certainly NOT going to be your point of view. You're wrong but fine by me.


You can't cure stupid.

Crumb_passin_thru_02_1__max50

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Rated +1 | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

Okay--(had to go do some things).


I'm back to explain. Heck--not explain. I'm not even sure what to call this. I'm glad you showed your true point so soon, though. Makes this easier. 


My frustration with you extends beyond this thread. Your arguments are always peppered with demonstrably false premises and if someone tries to point this out, you evade the issue more and try to drown folks out with long impassioned but ultimately irrational rants.


I'm just going to list a few of the FALSE premises I see here:


* Someone is being forced (or expected) to do something.


* There is one victim.


* That Israeli's are largely content with the status quo.


* That every country in the ME besides Israel wants to "blow us all to hell"


And just WOW with the "In fact, cut them loose to deal with the situation at hand." Codeword for what? I can't even say it. It's revolting.


 


That's why I hate it when you show up in any topic--and you're gleeful to know this, I'm sure. That's your MO. There. I've said my piece. Now you can continue to distort this into a crusade for justifiable genocide or something. Yeah I know--you're going to say "How the heck did you get that?" Please don't bother. Now that's my cynical conclusion. My hope is you'll leave it be and there can be a constructive, thoughtful discussion in here--but I'm not going to hold my breath.


 




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

Genocide? Wait, was it the Egyptions who were gassed or maybe the Syrians? No I don't think so. For them to deal with the situation at hand means they need to deal with their enemies. You know, the people who want to kill them, their wives, kids, dogs, etc. Who else is going to help them, China? My "demonstrably false" statements are merely differences of opinion. If this offends you well I can't help that. Here is the opinion I expressed (contrary to yours and obviously POTUS) The president wants Israel to go back to their 1967 border thus taking away a valuable buffer zone against rockets being shot at them, something we don't deal with on a daily basis thus can't relate to it. WHY? You and he think this will bring peace. WHY? Has any of the Israeli's concessions in the past created peace or created more demands? Is there another victim? WHERE? Was it Israel that attacked the 3 nations that attacked it or was it the 3 nations that attacked it in the 6 day war? Why give the territory back? The importance for Israel to have the extra territory is to allow enough time to fall back and regroup before being overrun. Are you saying Israel would not be happy doing business and having peace versus defending itself? Name a country in the M.E. that doesn't want to blow us to hell. Yeah sure they smile and wave but in the meantime plot the death and destruction of all of us. See Iran. You can be frustrated all you want. Personally I don't give a damn. You obviously agree with the guy you voted for. So what. If you can't see or perhaps try to see a different point of view that's cool, that YOUR M.O. Go ahead on trying to wordsmith your way and "cleverly" snarking your way through every conversation. We have differing points of view, so be it.


You can't cure stupid.

Crumb_passin_thru_02_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

ajsdaddyCCSO says ...



[long impassioned, but ultimately irrational rant]



Right on schedule.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

mz66 says ...



ajsdaddyCCSO says ...



[long impassioned, but ultimately irrational rant]



Right on schedule.



Back at you. You know what's so funny about it? You wish to debate something but when someone comes up with an opposing viewpoint you go nuts. Is ok, it's the way you are. POTUS is not doing the world a favor by turning his back on our friends. This isn't "trying" this is capitulating.


You can't cure stupid.

Crumb_passin_thru_02_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

 You don't have an opposing viewpoint that's based in reality. When you can form an argument without resorting to premises that are demonstrably false, then maybe we can have a debate. Until then this will just be a pointless tit-for-tat. Goodnight.




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

Half_dome_yosemite_national_park_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

mz66 says ...



After 44 years people are tired of the bloodshed. 


Matt the only people that are the tired of the bloodshed are the Israelis. I suggest you study up on the term "Jihad" the Arabs have called for Israeli blood to be spilled wherever it is found. 


And before you tell me I dont know anything about this topic like usual, I fought there side by side with the Israelis, have you?


So I may just have a little more insight as too the feelings their people than you do.


Half_dome_yosemite_national_park_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

I just realized how proud I am of myself to have the REALWORLD experiences to fall back on while discussing a topic and not having to have a PHD in Literature to twist words to get people to agree with what I am saying. Just Saying...

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

mz66 says ...



 You don't have an opposing viewpoint that's based in reality. When you can form an argument without resorting to premises that are demonstrably false, then maybe we can have a debate. Until then this will just be a pointless tit-for-tat. Goodnight.



Premesis that are demonstrably false? History can be found in any book. Pick one up. Historically the Jewish people have fought the arabs at every turn. Are you saying they do it for fun? POTUS lives in the typical liberal la-la land where "if we give them what they want they will be our friends". BS. The arabs are the ones who created this mess and perpetuate it generationally through ignorance, intolerance, and racism. Something liberals are supposed to oppose. The Palestinians wanted their own state. They got it, carved out of Israel. NOT carved out of any of their "friends", out of the tiniest nation in the M.E. They wanted their own government, they got it. It's called Hamas. You know them terrorist dudes? The people who strap bombs to their women because they are so freaking scared of their own shadows they can't do their own wiping. You know what's seriously sick about them? If they concentrated as hard on working instead of killing Israeli's they could be really successful. Watch the news any day of the week and see the mobs of angry young men who demonstrate instead of work, it's sick. No jobs? Start your own business. It's not like we as Americans don't give them enough money. Once again you have avoided the easy question, why not tell the arabs to go get bent and back off our friends? Why ask Israel to give back lands that were won with Israeli blood through unprovoked attacks? POTUS is barking up the wrong tree...........in my opinion.


You can't cure stupid.

Crumb_passin_thru_02_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

Ranger719 says ...



mz66 says ...



After 44 years people are tired of the bloodshed. 


Matt the only people that are the tired of the bloodshed are the Israelis. I suggest you study up on the term "Jihad" the Arabs have called for Israeli blood to be spilled wherever it is found. 


And before you tell me I dont know anything about this topic like usual, I fought there side by side with the Israelis, have you?


So I may just have a little more insight as too the feelings their people than you do.



No, I honestly don't believe you do. As a Jew I have been keenly aware of my heritage and the history of repeated attempts to wipe us out. I have shared many conversations with friends who have gone for their obligatory tours in the IDF and other friends who simply live there. Hardly anybody wants the status quo anymore. A two-state solution where Israeli security is assured and Palestinians have a contiguous territory, which this and previous administrations have promoted as well, is the best hope for a lasting peace.





Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

Half_dome_yosemite_national_park_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

mz66 says ...



Ranger719 says ...



mz66 says ...



After 44 years people are tired of the bloodshed. 


Matt the only people that are the tired of the bloodshed are the Israelis. I suggest you study up on the term "Jihad" the Arabs have called for Israeli blood to be spilled wherever it is found. 


And before you tell me I dont know anything about this topic like usual, I fought there side by side with the Israelis, have you?


So I may just have a little more insight as too the feelings their people than you do.



No, I honestly don't believe you do. As a Jew I have been keenly aware of my heritage and the history of repeated attempts to wipe us out. I have shared many conversations with friends who have gone for their obligatory tours in the IDF and other friends who simply live there. Hardly anybody wants the status quo anymore. A two-state solution where Israeli security is assured and Palestinians have a contiguous territory, which this and previous administrations have promoted as well, is the best hope for a lasting peace.



Oh you are Jewish and have SHARED conversations with Jewish friends, WELL EXCUSE ME I didnt realize I was speaking to a subject matter expert!!!


You know what, although I have always disagreed with what you say, I always thought you were intelligent and exercised common sense, but after this one I think your just an idiot.


Let me fill ya in on a little something, all these books you read that make you think you know everything, people like me and those I served with had to go out and do the things you read about.


You seriously need to get over yourself Pal, you are not a modern day Philospher.


Most of your arguments are obviously posted for the sake of argument just to fill time in your life.


 

Crumb_passin_thru_02_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

Goodnight (for real this time). I don't have to twist. I have the facts on my side. Read Obama's statement above in full--if it's not too inconvenient for you. I posted it because it is chock full of real information (and also some flowery prose, but that's Obama). 




Bessie Braddock: “Sir, you are drunk.”
Churchill: “Madam, you are ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.”

1asteriskshield_ezr_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

Wait, because it's from the nobama it's true? Are you his propoganda agent? Give me a break.


You can't cure stupid.

Cops4christ_max50

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Rated +2 | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

you know what is needed in this thread?


that picture of the body builders hugging...


and while we're at, it might work in the ME too...


just saying... :)


SpencerStangz
"But I say unto you that hear: Love your enemies, do good to them that hate you. Bless them that curse you, and pray for them that despitefully use you." Luke 6:27-28

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Rate This | Posted almost 3 years ago

 

Of course it's true.Between the "er's" and "ah's" he read it from the teleprompter,just as the Chicago Socialist Party directed him to.So,is it anything new that he detests cops ,the Jewish race,patriots,Christians and flag wavers?

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