General Forums >> Gear and Equipment >> How do you all break up the outline of your long guns?

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How do you all break up the outline of your long guns?

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Posted over 3 years ago

 

This is the Mossberg 500A I am working on. Once I locate the sling I want and make some minor mods I want to spray on a camo to break up the outline of it. I do not like wraps because the leave a nasty sticky residue and I do not want any anodizing done mostly because of the cost. This is a combat weapon, not a show piece so I am looking for a low buck solution. I have always been a fan of the tiger stripe pattern.  So I was thinking I would use a tiger strip pattern I printed out and make a template. Then spray on some flat grey paint in the stripe pattern.  Does anyone else have a better idea or know of a better way?


 


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Unless you work in the Jungle, or you're a Park Ranger, Forestry Dept, etc, I really don't see any reason to "break up the outline". If you're taking it hunting, well the average Deer doesn't know what a shotgun looks like anyway. The cheapest way to do it, is to NOT do it.

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BSL1123 says ...



If you're taking it hunting, well the average Deer doesn't know what a shotgun looks like anyway.



I dunno!! Last time I was hunting, could have sworn I heard the deer yell "GUN" before they ran off!!


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Csi_squirrle_max600_1__max50

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You feel it necessary to break up the outline of your shotgun because???

Just_passin__thru_max50

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Is this a LEO working shotgun or something else?


For law enforcement work, you may want to leave it alone. A deployed shotgun needs to be seen so it has a chance to be ascertained. "I swear, you Honor, I would have given up if I saw the shotgun but I dinnint see it so I wasn't scared. Because of that, now I don't have an arm." Blah, blah. Additionally, your fellow officers/deputies need to be able to see it too.


If the application is outside the scope of LEO-Land, shoot [pun intended], paint it with fingernail polish....no one would care so much. Just don't paint it orange or anything on it orange. On the serious side, a shrink wrap pattern or baked on design are good. Professionally done, of course.


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TheSarge says ...



For law enforcement work, you may want to leave it alone. A deployed shotgun needs to be seen so it has a chance to be ascertained. "I swear, you Honor, I would have given up if I saw the shotgun but I dinnint see it so I wasn't scared. Because of that, now I don't have an arm." Blah, blah. Additionally, your fellow officers/deputies need to be able to see it too.



This.

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GTS197 says ...



TheSarge says ...



For law enforcement work, you may want to leave it alone. A deployed shotgun needs to be seen so it has a chance to be ascertained. "I swear, you Honor, I would have given up if I saw the shotgun but I dinnint see it so I wasn't scared. Because of that, now I don't have an arm." Blah, blah. Additionally, your fellow officers/deputies need to be able to see it too.



This.


 



Would a department even allow that kind of modification?


 


on topic, I have no idea.  Personally, I think a d.i.y. spray paint job would look well ghetto.  if I were to get a camo job done on my weapon I would either get it custom from the manufacturer or get a it professional done by an artist. 


For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

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RighteousZeal says ...



GTS197 says ...



TheSarge says ...



For law enforcement work, you may want to leave it alone. A deployed shotgun needs to be seen so it has a chance to be ascertained. "I swear, you Honor, I would have given up if I saw the shotgun but I dinnint see it so I wasn't scared. Because of that, now I don't have an arm." Blah, blah. Additionally, your fellow officers/deputies need to be able to see it too.



This.


 



Would a department even allow that kind of modification?


 


on topic, I have no idea.  Personally, I think a d.i.y. spray paint job would look well ghetto.  if I were to get a camo job done on my weapon I would either get it custom from the manufacturer or get a it professional done by an artist. 



That would depend on the agency. Some smaller departments are a bit more 'relaxed' on policy.

Csi_squirrle_max600_1__max50

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Uh, your post makes even less sense now.  If he knows you are there and knows you have a gun what difference does it make what kind?  As a matter of fact I would be more inclined to want him to know I had a shotgun.  There is nothing as intimidating as racking the slide as you draw down on a bad guy.  I'm not sure what you mean by "special forces" guys.  There are shotguns that are parkerized or otherwise a flat finish. The reason has nothing to do with "breaking up the outline" and everything to do with preventing rust and corrosion. 

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Here's my two cents. It appears you're asking about a shotgun. You won't need to break up an outline of a shotgun more times than you'll want it to be seen. A rifle is the same thing. Unless, you're in SWAT and in the wide open.

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Ok, then I will make it simple and to the point. On the record: I would not recommend you changing the color of your shotgun. Period. And since this post will circle the globe, you've been put on point.


Aside: Special Ops guys do not have off colored weapons. I know. Flat black mostly.


Now, if you're just justifying the cool factor, fine. If you're very very very concerned about being seen, go all the way: Balaclava, broken pattern MARPAT-style BDU's, all velcro 'softened', gloves, earpiece, no keys, phone and only a headset. Maybe even a Gilly Suit and indigenous flora and fauna randomly attached to your vehicle. Yup, gotta also consider camo'ing up your vehicle to. Then make sure to make a 3-hour stealthy approach that covers only 100 feet.


Ok, I'm poking at ya a little bit. But, nope, your over-concerned about 'reflection'. Keep in mind all the elements of Murphy's Law including a new one you are creating: "If the bad guy can't see my gun, I probably can't either and I might lose it." Or something like that. Imagine, misplaced in plain view.


Just stick with being a responsible tactician and you'll be fine.


You also might want to check with your local District Attorney and/or your legal representation about how they feel about defending a LEO who's altered the weapon to make it 'invisible'. Go ahead and do it. You're the one asking questions.


p.s. I didn't wear a wedding ring for my entire career for the reasons you cited. But my agency required I wear a badge/shield that was 25 times bigger in presentation than my ring. Go figure.


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I think something of bigger concern that the TheSarge has brought up is court. If you make your gun harder to see and you shoot someone, then I can see him turning around and saying, "if I knew he had a gun, I would have turned myself in and not gotten shot."  For that reason I would stick to the basics.  You don't want anything biting you in the butt later, because it seems like a good idea today.


For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

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TheSarge says ...


*snip*

p.s. I didn't wear a wedding ring for my entire career for the reasons you cited. But my agency required I wear a badge/shield that was 25 times bigger in presentation than my ring. Go figure.



Hey you never know what your badge might do for you...the last badge of the 3 on this...pretty suprising.



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I'm not sure what the OPs "experiences" are but mine entailes 25+ years in the business.  Like Sarge said it's a BAD IDEA period.  Your reasons most likely entail the cdi factor.  What we are sayen is IT'S A BAD IDEA.  If you alter your firearm and then shoot someone the lawyers will be over the incident with a microscope.  When the DA or plaintifs's attorney askes you why you altered your weapons appearance what will you say????  Will you say so he did not realize I had a shotgun???????   How do you think that would work out for you?

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As an addendum, yes, over in the Sand Box they do colorize (sometimes) their weaponry. But the also live in urban camos. So, yeah, it's their deal. Thanks for the clarificaiion because we are talking about a non-military law enforcement application here. When you pop someone in The Sandbox, you take a count and look for the next 'opportunity'.


Here, in CONUS and LEO-Land  we start investigations: criminal, civil and I.A. WAAAAY different than military. So there is a lot of policy and CYA'ing going on. It's normal.


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Lonesome00 says ...



I can handle a little fun being poked, lord knows I do not give the guys I work with a rest from it. However, I really did not want to dwell on this but I will bring it up one more time then no more. Some of the SF guys I knew in Iraq and Asscrackastan did indeed multicolor thier weapons. A couple I knew used white stripes. Belive it or not it worked. Anyhoo, that is where I got the idea. Enough on that.


I agree with checking with the DA and some of the other legal issues. Right now I was just looking for ideas. Once I decided which way to go I was going to check with my chain of command and so on. SWAT may or may not be in my not too distant future. And, I may or may not be able to use my own weapon. But either way I wanted it ready and purpose biult.



It is "Purpose built" when it leaves the factory.

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Citizen complaints are part of the job. People will complain because of attitude, attitude, attitude.... sometimes about policy, a few on use of force. On a traffic accident you usually do not disclose who is at fault on scene. Deflect the question with, "The accident is under investigation and you can get a copy of the report later." Even if it obvious, do not discuss fault at an accident. As soon as you declare who is at fault, standby for the usual barrage of questions.... even a request for another officer to help with the invest.


Now, if you are spending time getting your ducks in a row just about the complaint portion, then hmmmm... what did you do ? Again, complaints are part and parcel of what we do. Just do a professional job and nothing gets 'substantiated' because it is all bogus. I am going to guess (based on old stats from my old department) that one in 100 complaints goes anywhere. Some can be addressed with a phone call by a Watch Commander, Patrol Sergeant or equivalent.


Just evaluate how you're doing your job and move forward.


Only you will know if you have made a correct career choice.


And yes, this is off topic but it sounds like your scratching your head. I can hear it way out here.


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Lonesome00 says ...



I am still learning what not to do with this career path. I have found that I cannot handle situations like I think it should be handled. Last night is a good example of that. I had to spend over two hours past my shift getting a very detailed report done over a traffic violation that the mother of the violator disagreed with. Just because she stated she will complain to the chief first thing in the morning it took priority over the arrest reports I had to get done before I even wrote those citations. I am really starting to wonder if I chose the correct career path right now.



Sounds like you need to invest in video/audio gear. If you're department won't provide it, go buy it. I've spent absolutely no time worrying about idle threats since I began my career with that tidbit of advice. I walk in with the audio/video, uplaod it to my supervisor's computer and let it do the speaking for me.

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TrafficCop28 says ...



Lonesome00 says ...



I am still learning what not to do with this career path. I have found that I cannot handle situations like I think it should be handled. Last night is a good example of that. I had to spend over two hours past my shift getting a very detailed report done over a traffic violation that the mother of the violator disagreed with. Just because she stated she will complain to the chief first thing in the morning it took priority over the arrest reports I had to get done before I even wrote those citations. I am really starting to wonder if I chose the correct career path right now.



Sounds like you need to invest in video/audio gear. If you're department won't provide it, go buy it. I've spent absolutely no time worrying about idle threats since I began my career with that tidbit of advice. I walk in with the audio/video, uplaod it to my supervisor's computer and let it do the speaking for me.



I have 2 Olympus voice recorders, I quit using the first one after I had 300+ traffic stops recorded, but since mine don't have a computer interface, there is no way to download them.  The only thing I typically do about a citizen saying that they will complain to the chief is to give the chief a 'heads up' about a possible complaint, but most of the time the person doesn't follow through on the complaint.  If your in a large dept it may not b practical to give the chief a 'heads up' but you should still mention it to a supervisor and let it go from there.

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Lonesome00 says ...



I am still learning what not to do with this career path. I have found that I cannot handle situations like I think it should be handled. Last night is a good example of that. I had to spend over two hours past my shift getting a very detailed report done over a traffic violation that the mother of the violator disagreed with. Just because she stated she will complain to the chief first thing in the morning it took priority over the arrest reports I had to get done before I even wrote those citations. I am really starting to wonder if I chose the correct career path right now.



Getting complaints means you're doing your job, the only people who never get complaints never do anything.  since you were fortunate enough to get a LE job in the current economy your should be proud of youraccomplishment and not have doubts about your career choice. 

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If you aren't getting complaints you aren't doing much.  They come with the job.  My policy is to always give the brass a heads up if I think a complaint is coming.  The biggest problems with complaints is if the chief, sheriff, or whoever has no idea what's coming he/she can't even ask the complainer relevant quesitons.  I"ve got an olympus digital recorder.  I can load everything right onto my computer and burn it to CD if I want.  If your jurisdiction allows it a digital recorder is cheap insurance.

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On my copy of every citation i write, as well as my notes about the stop is a notation like B-47 which means that stop was the 47th one recorded in the "B" folder of my Olympus voice recorder, i wish I had one like mmmm's that I could download to a computer and burn on CD, but i have a cheap (less than $40) one.  It fits in my right shirt pocket and works fine from there much better audio that the in car video system.

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TLeeworth says ...



Lonesome00 says ...



I am still learning what not to do with this career path. I have found that I cannot handle situations like I think it should be handled. Last night is a good example of that. I had to spend over two hours past my shift getting a very detailed report done over a traffic violation that the mother of the violator disagreed with. Just because she stated she will complain to the chief first thing in the morning it took priority over the arrest reports I had to get done before I even wrote those citations. I am really starting to wonder if I chose the correct career path right now.



Getting complaints means you're dioing your job, the only people who never get complaints never do anything.  since you were fortunate enough to get a LE job in the current economy your should be proud of youraccomplishment and not have doubts about your career choice. 



Amen to that! Just do your job,  worrying about complaints will get you hurt or a EOW date.  Be safe!

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I sounds like already have a grip on reality. But reality has its own weird feel to it. Slippery, funky and definitely crappy.


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Lonesome00 says ...



My SGT just happen to be there when I stopped this person. He had just stopped another one a few hundred feet away and was finishing up his paperwork. He said I have no worries, not onlt was I right and handled it correctly but the driver was very deserving. But becuase he got on the phone with the mother to explain why her 20 year old baby was getting two citations he knew she planned to make a complaint.  So, I had to go on over time and type out this detailed report so he could show the chief what all happened. I made two arrests prior to that and they did not matter. But becuase some mother of a 20 year old adult did not like her "little girl" getting written I had to focus on that. I hope I do get on the SRT soon, I am sick of crap like that.


 


Oh, our agency uses body cameras like this:


http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20090611/muvi-micro-camcorder/



Must be nice working for a department where the SRT does not go on the road.  So, when the SRT isn't handling barricaded gunmen or tactical search warrants or. . . .whatever they are set up to do. . . .what DO they do?  I work for the State Police in Michigan and our "SRT Team" is called the "ES Team" (Emergency Services).  Our ES Team members have their training days in the month, but when they aren't training or putting that training to use, they are back on the road taking complaints just the same as I and every other road trooper.  I find it interesting when people get hired to become a police officer but their only real reason was because they only wanted to wear the badge and gun and then don't want to go out and do the work that the police are supposed to be doing. . . .interacting with the public.


I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

John Bernard Books, from "The Shootist"

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Looks like this one is done.


Closed 2-9-11.


Thanks to everyone.


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