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Administration Issues

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Posted about 4 years ago

 

I work for a hospital police department that is fully commissioned. Our civilian administrators recently barred us from making any arrests/writing any tickets. All crimes have to be turned over to another agency.
We have now been told that we cannot search any patients(mental health or other). The reason for this is because the hospital wants to project a "friendly" image and they do not want us finding illegal narcotics, weapons, etc.
Our hospital is located in one of the most violent city's in the US and is flooded with victims of violent crime and mental health patients.these new policies put staff at risk.
Anyone faced this before?

74596_129289523905506_927477597_n_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

I know this is going to come from someone in here so I'll be the first to say:


mikeporter123, it's best that you post a brief introduction here: http://policelink.monster.com/discussions/130-introductions/topics


that way, we sort of have an idea of who you are and you're more likely to get more responses.


Adapt, improvise and overcome.
YaYa Dancing Wolf

White_shirt_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted about 4 years ago

 

The key word here is civilian administrators. Your chief may need to grow a set. Wait till the first time a gun appears in the ER room and medical personnel is shitting down both legs. You may see a turnover of agency personnel also. A friend of mine years ago worked security at a hospital and a RN called all the shots. It was a disaster.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

So are you a fully academy trained police officer that chooses to work at a "hospital police department" or are you an unarmed security guard who's job is to simply observe and report? Please clarify.

Star_max160_max160_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

bmorgan says ...



If you have a certificate from an academy and are a fully certified LEO....leave, departments all over the place are looking for people.  And someone who is already state certified saves them a ton of money.



EXACTLY................AND you'll fare better IN THE LONG RUN if you go to a State or Federal agency as your retirements, supplements, and benefit packages OVER TIME will give you a greater return for your years of service. DON"T BE FOOLED that a dollar or two per hour on the front end of a privatized job is better.


It is what it is.............and.........these things too shall pass.

Sf_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

bmorgan says ...



If you have a certificate from an academy and are a fully certified LEO....leave, departments all over the place are looking for people.  And someone who is already state certified saves them a ton of money.



 


BUMP


-Fallow Your Bliss

(It’s a play on words…not a spelling error)

Silver_warrior_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Hospital Police Department where the hospital administration doesn't want you doing police work. . . . . .uhhhhhh (scratches head as it is starting to hurt from the lack of logic here) just what is it that they want you to do then?  Does your uniform at least look pretty?


I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

John Bernard Books, from "The Shootist"

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Rated +1 | Posted about 4 years ago

 

sounds like you aint the police. when you say turn over to another agency do you mean to local pd? give us more info

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Bump to all.  Sounds like a security company to me.  In my state there's no such thing as a "private police agency."



White_shirt_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

I wish mikeporter would respond if he is a certified law enforcement officer or security personnel. I didn't think of that in my first response.

Ferret_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

uncledennis1 says ...



The key word here is civilian administrators. Your chief may need to grow a set. Wait till the first time a gun appears in the ER room and medical personnel is shitting down both legs. You may see a turnover of agency personnel also. A friend of mine years ago worked security at a hospital and a RN called all the shots. It was a disaster.



Well said ...  BUMP


The integrity of your word is its greatest respect! - "Talon"

Ferret_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

  I see where Mike is coming from with this issue. For example, in Texas, it is the hospital president, or CEO, who submits the request to legislation to initiate a law enforcement agency for that hospital. I'm not sure how many hands this requests passes through before it becomes a sworn, authorized PD, but it is the hospital administration that initializes it. Now, many hospital administrators don't possess the law enforcement mentality ... since their specialty is health care and not law enforcement. So, I can see where hospital administration would focus more on patient care rather than law enforcement as to make the patient as comfortable as possible and to reduce complaints. I think the hospital image is also taken under account, but then again, I think the image is pretty much tarnished when a PD has to be enacted into a hospital. A hospital officer can of course continue enforcing laws, just as an LEO should, but if any officer continues defying administration's orders by making arrests, writing citations, searches; as "mikeporter123" stated, then that officer can expect to be out of that job within the immidiate future.


The integrity of your word is its greatest respect! - "Talon"

Star_max160_max160_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Talon says ...



  I see where Mike is coming from with this issue. For example, in Texas, it is the hospital president, or CEO, who submits the request to legislation to initiate a law enforcement agency for that hospital. I'm not sure how many hands this requests passes through before it becomes a sworn, authorized PD, but it is the hospital administration that initializes it. Now, many hospital administrators don't possess the law enforcement mentality ... since their specialty is health care and not law enforcement. So, I can see where hospital administration would focus more on patient care rather than law enforcement as to make the patient as comfortable as possible and to reduce complaints. I think the hospital image is also taken under account, but then again, I think the image is pretty much tarnished when a PD has to be enacted into a hospital. A hospital officer can of course continue enforcing laws, just as an LEO should, but if any officer continues defying administration's orders by making arrests, writing citations, searches; as "mikeporter123" stated, then that officer can expect to be out of that job within the immidiate future.



Well put................


It is what it is.............and.........these things too shall pass.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Talon hit the nail squarely on the head!! We are a fully commissioned, academy certified, law enforcement agency that holds commissions with both the city we are located in, and the State. However, we are overseen by, ultimately, a CEO who is not pro-law enforcement.


In the past, we have not faced this issue and have functioned as a full-service agency, including specialized services. Now, however, as I said in my original post, things are changing!! Just wondering if anyone has faced this before, and what, if anything, was done to fix it.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

mikeporter123 says ...



Talon hit the nail squarely on the head!! We are a fully commissioned, academy certified, law enforcement agency that holds commissions with both the city we are located in, and the State. However, we are overseen by, ultimately, a CEO who is not pro-law enforcement.


In the past, we have not faced this issue and have functioned as a full-service agency, including specialized services. Now, however, as I said in my original post, things are changing!! Just wondering if anyone has faced this before, and what, if anything, was done to fix it.


 


Thank you for clearing that up for us.


 


Like Morgan said man, you best bet is going to be to leave that department...Chances are the new CEO will be there for YEARS to come and chances are he will not change his mind about LE in HIS hospital.  I'm sure a lateral transfer would be easy to obtain if you are indeed a full certified peace officer.


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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

if your a sworn dept your administrator cannot tell you not to arrest. That power is awarded via the state (in most cases) and will be spelled out in whatever charter your hospital was given when it started/began the police dept.


what he can do is decide enforcement policy, in other words, he can say, I want a traditional hard nosed arrest dept, or a comm policing dept.


I guess my questions are; what does your chief say about all this?


has anyone looked at the original enforcement charter?


what is the ceo's direct words? he will have to put this in writing.


Most hospitals I know are reactiionary. Other than write the odd ticket, they respond to trouble calls. Perhaps some of the problems originate as a nurse on floor six call for security for a out of control patient and there is no one to send because everyone is out making arrests.


I think you need to do some more research as to the exact message, and then what prompts all this. If he is just being a dick, the other recourse is to send a letter, including the ceo's written directive, to the local states attorney and the state attorney. If he is pulling your arrest power, which legally he cant do, he wont be around long as if there is a crime of violence within your institution he will be right for a lawsuit.


Next step do you have a union? what are they saying?

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Sounds like your chief./director needs to go head to head with the civilian  administrators, but he may like his positon too much to buck the higher ups, if this is the case, bailing sounds like your best option.

Ferret_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

mikeporter123 says ...



Talon hit the nail squarely on the head!! We are a fully commissioned, academy certified, law enforcement agency that holds commissions with both the city we are located in, and the State. However, we are overseen by, ultimately, a CEO who is not pro-law enforcement.


In the past, we have not faced this issue and have functioned as a full-service agency, including specialized services. Now, however, as I said in my original post, things are changing!! Just wondering if anyone has faced this before, and what, if anything, was done to fix it.



  Unfortunately, your best bet would be to leave that PD, unless you just want to stay and tough it out for about a decade. You, nor anyone else, will be able to pursuade hospital admin any other direction outside of their decisions - especially when it comes to law enforcement. However, there is a chance that this is just a "phase" and within 5 - 10 years, another decision will be made to allow your PD to perform more duties as a LEO. But until then, you'll probably feel more like a "glorified security officer" in a hospital rather than a peace officer. I'm not sure which state you're in, but Texas has at least 3 commissioned hospital law enforcement agencies (Bexar County - San Antonio, Terrant County - Fort Worth, and Dallas County - Dallas). There are other law enforcement agencies in other hospitals, but those hospitals are attached to universities, therefore, they are university peace officers and not hospital peace officers.


  Your chief could put up a fight, but he/she will not win. Hospital admin have the supreme decision, which means either find any reason to terminate non-compliant officers, or just terminate the PD altogether and then rely on their municipal law enforcement agency to handle thier calls.  In my opinion, and I'm not wishing any misfortune upon any entity, things probably won't change with your hospital until something major occurs - where it can be shown that lack of law enforcement intervention contributed to that occurrence. As "rickm" stated, most hospitals are reactionary and this is just one example.


  If your hospital is wanting you all to turn complaints and investigations over to the municipal PD, than that will only hurt your PD's reputation more with that municipality. It's bad enough that some municipality PD officers don't view hospital peace officers as "real peace officers"; so these lack of actions your hospital bestowed upon you all will only encourage this opinion.


The integrity of your word is its greatest respect! - "Talon"

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Thank you all for your input. Looks like it is time to move on!!

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Looks like this CEO is in the beginning stages of pushing Police out the door as a whole. I don't know what the "rules" are as far as Hospitals having to provide security personnel, but I'm willing to bet he's looking to scale down to unarmed security to save a few bucks. I'd say you're better off moving on as well.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

BSL1123 says ...



Looks like this CEO is in the beginning stages of pushing Police out the door as a whole. I don't know what the "rules" are as far as Hospitals having to provide security personnel, but I'm willing to bet he's looking to scale down to unarmed security to save a few bucks. I'd say you're better off moving on as well.



Agree, he may be looking at contract security, and as always, you get what you pay for ( or don't pay for), while contract security would be a step down, it would be cheaper.

Jack_bauer_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

I bet he is hearing the mantra about "How they don't need a police department, it is just there for extra protection and to help service the clients better." Also dont' do anything or it would cause your job and the jobs of others to be in jeapardy. 

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

bump Uncle Dennis