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Respecting Others

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Posted about 4 years ago

 

I have watched the forums for a long time now, we have had the old gang that gave no one a chance when they got here and asked questions (even stupid ones) and we have given some a chance before jumping them and calling them out.


It used to be so bad that TheSarge created the Fight Club because someone was always calling out a member about this or that. It appears that we are headed down that highway again and I for one don't like it.


People come here for answers to their questions and although to us, because we have seen the questions in one form or another many times, they are dumb questions or ones that should be common sense.


I think that we should give a person a running chance to explain their question or themselves prior to us badgering them and making them feel stupid.


I am always in the mood for a good troll whacking so that we can give them heck and make them miserable enough that they hang themselves and get sanctioned.


Remember, people come here for help just like they call or come by your station for one of us to help them, Treat them with respect until they prove that they don't deserve our respect, you would do it if you were at work why not here?


I believe that we have lost some very good members, both old and new alike because of this. What do you all think? I am open to your suggestions and ideas on how to keep our membership and friendships growing.


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing." Dante

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Rated +3 | Posted about 4 years ago

 

I always thought the respect was earned not given automatically.


Hello my name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die.

"It's not a constitutional violation for a police officer to be a jerk." Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy -December 4, 2000

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

I've only been here a few months and have seem this addressed before.  My suggestion would be if someone comes on asks a question right away.   Have someone tell them to write an intro and if they don't no one answer their question.   I guess a lot easier said than done though.


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Rated +1 | Posted about 4 years ago

 

jakesdad says ...



I always thought the respect was earned not given automatically.



JD, while I don't disagree, I have to ask, do you treat a citizen that way when they come to you at the office and ask stupid questions?


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing." Dante

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Rated +1 | Posted about 4 years ago

 

It comes down to the definition of troll.  Here, if anyone that asks a dumb question they are tagged as a troll.  Trolls are people who come to a website with the express purpose of messing with the users of the site.  What we get here are not trolls, but just ignorant (defined as unknowing, not rude) people. 


My recommendation is, if someone asks a question for a cop, cops should answer.  If you can't answer professionally, don't.  Sure, it's no fun, but, it's part of the PL gig, right?  Now, if a true flaming troll does roll up, we should release the hounds of sarcasm.


What was just posted was probably a poor attempt at humor, wit, or sarcasm. It;s called breakin balls, get used to it.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

I believe that we should attempt to answer the question and after that let the chips fall where they may. 


At least give them enough rope to hang themselves.


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing." Dante

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Rated +2 | Posted about 4 years ago

 

bill9823 says ...



jakesdad says ...



I always thought the respect was earned not given automatically.



JD, while I don't disagree I have to ask, do you treat a citizen that way when they come to you at the office and ask stupid questions?



I treat them civilly to a point until the stupidity flows like Niagara Falls. Then, as my Chief tells me, "You are brutally honest" which has garnered a complaint here and there, but because everything I say is the truth and honest opinion they are dismissed. 


Perhaps the thread would better be named Being Civil.


Hello my name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die.

"It's not a constitutional violation for a police officer to be a jerk." Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy -December 4, 2000

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

JD that is what I am trying to get across to the members, be civil until......


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing." Dante

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

I think yours is a good approach Bill. I will think twice before I chime in.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

 I think we all should treat others like you want to be treated, then of course when they ask something stupid, they should be informed right then that the question is open to debate and the answer they get will be like the question asked! If you ask something that requires little thought then most of the time there will be no thought put in the answer. I know some of the worst troll beatings came from questions that should never been asked! If its a honest question, and the person just seems to not get it, they should be warned. Just like the old question that I hate on the street, IS 56 breaking the law in a 55 mph? Yes, 55 is not a guessing game. But, its been better here for the last 6 months!


Thanks to the supers in charge!


I love each day like its my last! Why do we are have to be so serious?

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Rated +2 | Posted about 4 years ago

 

I like the idea Bill. With the redundant questions it is easy to refer them to the previous threads where the questions had already been asked. LE needs more of a positive public image and although I don't see a lot of threads where there were call outs there are some. Perhaps there can be a section created for "Commonly Asked Law Enforcement Questions" for easy access...just a thought.


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Rated +1 | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Good Call Terry. I'm with you there.


Also, I will admit that I have jumped in a few cereal bowls in my day. The thing is, yeah we treat all citizen complaints the same at work, but this isn't work. This is where we all come when the "vest comes off" so to speak. Sure we come on here when we're on duty at 2 am and there's nothing going on. To kill time or whatever your case may be. But the fact is PL is a place (for me anyway) to get away. Not so much to get away from the job, but the stress and the BS that we all have to put up with. A place to "smoke and joke" with like-minded Officers and decompress.


Reference JD's statement, and I'm almost certain most of us feel this way, you earn my respect, and I will give it. It's not something that comes without a price. That's just me. If we start a new forum for FAQ's then by all means. Until then, I will stay out of folks Cheerios until I have a good reason to jump in them.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

BSL1123 says ...



 To kill time or whatever your case may be.



or pick on non-LEO's


Adapt, improvise and overcome.
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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

I agree with the premise. The site is geared to professionals interacting with civilians as well as other professionals. Maybe we as LEOs should be more goal oriented in our dealings with civilians who post, especially asking questions for the first time. Now, I am not adverse to letting an adult know how childish their behavior is. After all they are adults. They should know better. The distinction lies in the content and context of the post and the profile of the poster. We as professionals should be able to know the difference between the honestly asked question and the ones that deserve a beating.


""Life is a storm.. You will bask in the sunlight one moment, be shattered on the rocks the next. What makes you a man is what you do when that storm comes"
Alexander Dumas-The Count of Monte Christo

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

SGT405 says ...



I agree with the premise. The site is geared to professionals interacting with civilians as well as other professionals. Maybe we as LEOs should be more goal oriented in our dealings with civilians who post, especially asking questions for the first time. Now, I am not adverse to letting an adult know how childish their behavior is. After all they are adults. They should know better. The distinction lies in the content and context of the post and the profile of the poster. We as professionals should be able to know the difference between the honestly asked question and the ones that deserve a beating.



Well stated.  I agree totally.


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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Perhaps the need to bash and render blazen sarcasm could be better done in the restricted access arena? Overall, the attraction to this site is professionalism and to a point recruitment into the brotherhood. Questions, stupid or not should be answered once and then the "warning" given that the thread or question is fast approaching encroachment on the common sense or stupid arena. Remember common sense is not so common and what is common sense to the trained professional is not common sense to the untrained or uneducated out here that seek answers or enlightenment.


That is why there are Moderators to PoliceLink, lets give our true opinion in the restricted arena and allow the Moderators to address the stupidity. We certainly should address the topic as not worthy of further discussion and exercise our maturity and remember we don't have to respond. Maybe the "decompression chamber" would be the place to go? We should have fun, but never loose site of the professionalism that is the foundation of this site. Just my opinion. Yeah I know we all have one. Stupidity is job security...

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Totally agree, BSL, with your mention of PL's major strength as a place to doff the vest and blow off steam where civilians can join in the fun.  PL's brand of gonzo humor makes it #1 in putting a human face on LEO's in COMMUNITY.  Without THAT, PL would deflate into a boring and dry generic career resource. The LEO's 'human face' would flatten out into something like the dreary high school counselor who hands you a stack of brochures and a fat resource binder, "Next?" Yawn. 


PL proves LEO's are NOT stuffed shirts.  Instead, PL dispels myths.  LEO's are NOT cardboard cut-outs, NOT empty suits of armor.  LEO's laugh, joke and grab onto life - just like civilians.  THAT is why we mourn when we lose one in service to us.  It's our common bond.  THAT, in my book, is PL's most important service to our community.


Having said that, yeah some Cheerio bowls NEED to get rained in - but Bill's right, timing is everything.  Ain't nothin' wrong with exposing a dyed-in-the-wool cop-hater who slithered in with an agenda.  That's a useful career skill.  Ain't nothin' wrong with giving plenty of rope beforehand. Another useful career skill! 


I'm for whatever keeps PL REAL, I'm for it!  But keeping it real does NOT include regulating the daylights out of Forums. Not in my book. 


Thanks for the sound advice, as always, Bill!


 


BSL1123 says ...



Good Call Terry. I'm with you there. Also, I will admit that I have jumped in a few cereal bowls in my day. The thing is, yeah we treat all citizen complaints the same at work, but this isn't work. This is where we all come when the "Vest comes off" so to speak. Sure we come on here when we're on duty at 2 am and there's nothing going on. To kill time or whatever your case may be. But the fact is PL is a place (for me anyway) to get away. Not so much to get away from the job, but the stress and the BS that we all have to put up with. A place to "smoke and Joke" with Like Minded Officers, and decompress. Reference JD's statement, and I'm almost certain most of us feel this way, you earn my respect, and I will give it. It's not something that comes without a price. That's just me. If we start a new forum for FAQ's then by all means. Until then, I will stay out of folks cheerios until I have a good reason to Jump in them.


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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

BUMP


"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice."~~~~ Allan Arbus, (MASH, Sidney Freedman)

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati..... When All Else Fails, Play Dead~~~ Red Green....

When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on!" (Franklin D Roosevelt).

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Rated +1 | Posted about 4 years ago

 

I'm just sittin' here in the bleachers enjoying myself.


I love it when you guys take ownership of this place.


You might consider what are the 'elements' of criminal trollism. What's a wobbler? What do you need to see to have 'probable cause' to put on your special boots?


To JD, hmmm.... earned respect. Let's see. Yeah, I think a better deal is 'being civil'. Kinda like 'faux respect'. Of course, we learnt a long time ago to show reeeespect to the other person on the street, not the real kind, if you get what I mean.  Whether it was real or contrived was up to me. Civil never meant a free pass.


Now, I can tell ya that within a PM or two, I can usually root out the antagonist, the user with anti-LEO sentiments just below the surface and the corrosive creep. AND, I can also pretty much detect the noob that needs a little point in the right direction because they 'don't get it'. True enough, most of us didn't get in when we took our first step toward LEO-Land. But we were schooled up somewhere (whether is was a kick in the beeehind or just a turn of the shoulders) and here we are today.


I think Bill's original post is on the money. And as we are expanding on that original thought, we DO need to be clever, perceptive and discerning with fresh faces on the site.


I am almost wanting to say that identifying a troll is one thing. BUT ID'ing an authentic 'Noob' or 'Newbie' is another. Those are the keepers. And if they get off to a rocky start, no worries. We fix them and shove them in the right direction.


But to burn down a huge percentage of 'stupid questions' may be a little far to one side. We have good Moderators and excellent LEO's on the site. We collectively can handle anything that comes on the site. And unless you forgot, a truly trollish stupid post can be made to disappear with no prints.


(Initiate them song, fade to black, ... break for commercial.)


Thoughts?


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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Well, even though I am not an LEO (yet) I have had to learn a little more about respect. I will usually give someone a benefit of a doubt. I have PM'd a few new members on here and hacve been able to direct them in the right direction.


Some of us have a tendency to just "jump" on the person really quick. I have learned to basically pm the person and see what I can get out of the person, now if I get negative feed back or if they don't respond back after a certain time then I will do what I need to do.


So, basically, I give a person the benefit of a doubt, but will monitor them closely.


Like the saying goes RESPECT IS NOT GIVEN, IT IS EARNED...


Does this make sense??


"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice."~~~~ Allan Arbus, (MASH, Sidney Freedman)

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati..... When All Else Fails, Play Dead~~~ Red Green....

When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on!" (Franklin D Roosevelt).

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

My take is this. Imagine with me, if you will (try to do this without closing your eyes, because that makes it a little difficult to read) you have a New Kid On the Job, and you're training him. The FTO's should see where I'm going already. If you get that Kid that is motivated, ready and willing to learn, and listens, takes notes, and actually doesn't make the same mistake twice, you've hit that One In a Million Kid. The one that is going to grow up to be an excellent officer. We have PL members that are Like that. Elaken for one comes to mind. Smart Kid.


Then you've got the ride-along. They are out there to see if this is the path for them. Nothing wrong with that. It's a smart idea to test the waters beofre you jump in in some cases. Also to start building a network, and get you name known (in a good way) with your local PD. We also have a few of those types that wander in, and as of late, haven't been sticking around very long.


Then you have the ones that have had nothing but bad interactions with the Police and/or any other LEO. They tend to "walk up in here" and start throwing their own brand of BS around, because they realize that this is a place where they can talk smack to a Cop, and walk away without a night in jail, and no court date. We have quite a few of those around.


My thing is, when you line all three next to each other, they generally look the same (especially when your profile is either blank, or fake). I take everything at face value. Therefore, I'm not gonna give anything beyond a Generic respect for the person as a Human, Until it is earned. i.e. calling a DUI Driver "sir" while conducting field sobriety.


Make sense?

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

BSL1123 says ...



(See above.)


++++++++++++++++++

Thanks for the late heads up. I was sitting here with my eyes closed and nothing was happening.


Yup, makes perfect sense. Too sensible actually.


I say we form an enclave, develop a compound and divvy up the food.


(Sorry, I digress. Doggone TheSarge. Always getting sideways.)


Continue...


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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

I believe Casscocop has it, "give people a little slack" most will hang themselves without even a push. 


However, I do have a quote proudly displayed in my office.  It's from Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy, December 4, 2000....


 


                                                          "It is not a constitutional violation for a police officer to be a jerk"


 


 


Hello my name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die.

"It's not a constitutional violation for a police officer to be a jerk." Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy -December 4, 2000

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Luke_Rekked says ...



It comes down to the definition of troll.  Here, if anyone that asks a dumb question they are tagged as a troll.  Trolls are people who come to a website with the express purpose of messing with the users of the site.  What we get here are not trolls, but just ignorant (defined as unknowing, not rude) people. 


My recommendation is, if someone asks a question for a cop, cops should answer.  If you can't answer professionally, don't.  Sure, it's no fun, but, it's part of the PL gig, right?  Now, if a true flaming troll does roll up, we should release the hounds of sarcasm.



nothing?


What was just posted was probably a poor attempt at humor, wit, or sarcasm. It;s called breakin balls, get used to it.

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Rated +1 | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Casscocop says ...



Luke_Rekked says ...



Luke_Rekked says ...


EDITED:

I think you make a valid point, that when appropriate you can let the sarcasm rain down upon the poster, but be discrinimating, being ingorant (lacking in knowledge) is not a PL crime, neither is merely being annoying (variation on the question you have read 100 times before).  However we shuold be sure of the type of person we are dealing with before we go int a 'feeding frenzy' on them.  However when iit is clear we have trollish behavior we can unlease the big guns and have fun with them while we can, knowing a moderator is headed for the 'banned' button, and the thread is soon to be vaulted.



This was the point I was trying to make, don't just jump them because their post seemed dumb to us, to them it isn't, point them in the right direction or find the thread for them. New people might find it difficult to navigate the site. TheSarge started the mentoring group and many of us are members.


Once we have found a person to be a troll then I say have at it and most of us will help.


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing." Dante

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

bump


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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Ditto

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

bump


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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Great Topic!  Bump!


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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

I've seen quite a significant change for the better about this stuff. Everyone is doing better, myself included. People don't know what they have stumbled upon when they come to this site. They see a place where they can get a quick honest answer. Some stay and become valuable members and some leave the moment they get what they are looking for and there is everything in between. We're growing up in a society where people want answers and they want them fast. It amazes me how frustrated I can get when a webpage takes a little too long to load when years ago, I was using much slower dial-up with few complaints...it's all there was. This is the society we live in. People want instant satisfaction. It doesn't make it right that this is the new trend, but that's the way it is. Sometimes I can't resist the use of one of these guys, but that fact that people are held accountable on this site is what makes PL so special IMO. Don't lash out without reason, but don't lose that PL flare of brutal honesty and butt kicking. I feel an incoherent post deserves a sarcastic remark and an intro is a necessary courtesy. Throw the book at em' so to speek and make sure they are held accountable to PL standards, then if they "Troll-out", have some fun (I know I have my fun). This is how people learn, and they will learn fast and rise to the occasion or sink to a new low. We can all improve, MYSELF included, but no one should change IMO.


 

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