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Need some help on something, would like advice from security supervisors or police officers

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Jesse_max50

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Posted over 4 years ago

 

Hello, I am the Asst. Cheif of security at my company and I work in public housing. Where I work we deal with a lot of different things, and almost on a daily basis, sometimes two or three times a night we are clearing abandoned apartments, or removing people from apartments that are not allowed on property, or that the residents themselves want out. We also deal with alot of domestic violence calls where we have to detain people and we also run people for warrants and hold them for the police if they are wanted. Also some of the people around here in this area, after they commit a crime, they will run to this property and enter an apartment, because for what ever reason they think this place is a safe haven for them and when people make those calls to us, we have to go get them out.


The reason I am explaining all this is so you have an idea of what we do on a pretty regular basis. Now my problem  is that we have a guard that works with us that , on several occasions has missed someone hiding from us (in a bathtub, under a bed, in a closet under clothes, and behind a couch) also when it comes time to put the handcuffs on someone it takes him anywhere from 30 to 50 seconds to get them on, and thas even with the suspect complying. When he does get them on, they are not right ( Dont get me wrong, I dont care how they go on someone if we are in a fight, but this is not the case) and when the PD shows up, they put their cuffs on top of ours with the holes facing down, If our holes are facing up, then they will cut ours off i they cant get to the key holes, and this almost happened to him.


I am ready to get rid of him because of the danger he puts us in by missing people and not being able to get the cuffs on in a timely fasion, But every thing else he does is outstanding. He can write reports that are the very best, he interacts with the public very well, and is an all around good guy. I have tried everything, putting him back in classes, going through vacant apartments doing building search exercises with him over and over again and he just dont seem to get it. Ive bought him the asp cuffs for the keyhole problems and he cant even get those to click together ( meaning the top part of the cuff goes on the other side of the cuffs themselves, you guys probably know what I mean) Its these two problems that I am having with him and I think he would make a good officer, guard whatever you want to call it if he could get past all this, but I think I have tried everything and I dont think its going to sink in. I am going to give him one last chance to get things right (although I honestly cant see whats so hard about it) I was hoping you guys might have some advice or ideas on how to get him to understand the importance of this. Or at least tell me that hes to dumb or that it sounds like this stuff aint for him.


Thanks for your help.

Batman_max600_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

JD, I understand your frustration with this situation and this Officer. It seems that this line of work is not for him. If you have trained and re-trained this Officer and he continues to make mistakes then you need to do the right thing and cut him loose. You have to remember that your life and other Officers' lives are at risk here.


Is having an Officer that writes good reports and is a good guy worth loosing an Officer to injury or death. I think not. Like my Sheriff told a Reserve Deputy that we had to let go. I always wanted to be a pro football player but I didn't have the abilities to be one. Not everyone can be a Pro football player or basketball player and not everyone can be a Deputy Sheriff, Police Officer or Security Officer. Good luck on this endeavor. 


Bad stuff happens to good people, handle it and overcome.
My motto for life:
Let go and let GOD,
Only HE can control everything.

Angel_summer_2014_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

I agree completely, you are putting everyone's safety at risk if you don't deal with this.


You have retrained him and given him a second chance to prove himself to you that he can do the job.


Sorry but he won't cut it, I would kick him loose before you have to write a critical incident.


"It's Never To Late To Be What You Could Have Been"

Eagle_logo_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

I'm no LEO, but I have seen the admin side of the job. If maybe field work doesn't work for him, having an adimistrative person that is good with people and writes great reports is something vital to have. Not many people want to deal with that side of it, but having an asset that exceeds in that area is vital.


I appologize for not being a LEO or a S/O, but take my advice as is.

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

Fire him

Evil_max50

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BSL1123 says ...



Fire him



If he hasn't responded to corrective action (training) this ^


Simply put if he is missing people he's not doing his job, he's apparently dangerous to himself and others if he's missing people in obvious locations.  If termination is not an option then a riding a desk may be appropriate or other non security detail within the organization.  Janitor perhaps?


You have the rest of your life to solve the problem, how long your life lasts depends on how well you do it. -Clint Smith

Respect it

White_shirt_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

It all boils down to training. In my area security personnel watch a short video and take a test and then qualify at the range.

Santawink_max50

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Scurge says ...



BSL1123 says ...



Fire him



If he hasn't responded to corrective action (training) this ^


Simply put if he is missing people he's not doing his job, he's apparently dangerous to himself and others if he's missing people in obvious locations.  If termination is not an option then a riding a desk may be appropriate or other non security detail within the organization.  Janitor perhaps?



I was going to suggest that if your company is large enough you might put him in a training position for report writing. Anywhere but out where he is a danger to everyone,


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing." Dante

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Sg_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

Sounds like the guy just has bad instincts. There are loads of people that look good on paper but are worthless when it comes to practical application. He has been throgh training and remedial training and you have undoubtedly addressed his particular issues on many more occasions. If you can put him in a spot where you can utilize his strengths, I say do it. If not, you gotta let him go. Good workers are hard to come by but it's not worth keeping an employee that cannot learn and cannot think outside the box. JMO.

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

Ooooorrrrrrrrrr...................................


you could fire him.

Sg_max50

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BSL1123 says ...



Ooooorrrrrrrrrr...................................


you could fire him.



Ooooooor this ^^^^^

Th_policeavatar_2__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

Ok. How do keep someone that would fail a FTO period on just about anyones dept.? Officer safety is paramount. JOB1. PERIOD. Mine,yours, everyones.  Safety of the civilians around him is just as important. LWTH. LAWSUIT WAITING TO HAPPEN.  How can you gain the respect of your troops while keeping someone this incompetent? Move them around to train others? No way. A glorified paper pusher? What happens when you need that person back on the job? You are in charge, make the decision that commands the respect and integrity of your company, your officers and your rank.


 


""Life is a storm.. You will bask in the sunlight one moment, be shattered on the rocks the next. What makes you a man is what you do when that storm comes"
Alexander Dumas-The Count of Monte Christo

Thi_seal_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

If you have documented all the retraining this officer has completed it is time to show him/her the door. As SGT405 said, this is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I've seen alot of people that can't make the cut as police officers, most of them were nice people too. In this business you either have it or you don't and if you don't Rule #1 doesn't get followed, which is not acceptable.


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P3_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

gudercop says ...



JD, I understand your frustration with this situation and this Officer. It seems that this line of work is not for him. If you have trained and re-trained this Officer and he continues to make mistakes then you need to do the right thing and cut him loose. You have to remember that your life and other Officers' lives are at risk here.


Is having an Officer that writes good reports and is a good guy worth loosing an Officer to injury or death. I think not. Like my Sheriff told a Reserve Deputy that we had to let go. I always wanted to be a pro football player but I didn't have the abilities to be one. Not everyone can be a Pro football player or basketball player and not everyone can be a Deputy Sheriff, Police Officer or Security Officer. Good luck on this endeavor. 



agree completly

1979_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

Doesn't matter if he is good with the routine and clerical stuff, if he can't do the critical part of his job he is a danger to himself and others and needs to be fired. You want to motivate him, tell him next time he doesn't do his job in a timely and correct manner, he is fired, period, no more chances, end of story.

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

Sorry to say this, but some people are just not supposed to do any type of enforcement work. LE, Security, or anything related. For what I read here, and as you stated it.... It seems this individual should look for job in the PR section of any Company... Face it: He doesn't belong there...


No remedial training will ever accomplish a different result. I know it is hard to say that to someone, moreover when the individual is a nice person, but you (and him) must face reality: He represents a liability and a risk not only to everyone else in the team, but to himself and the people he is in charge to protect.


I know is hard because I have been in the position to tell similar things to a few individuals... And, I am still in that hard position.

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

Like pretty much everyone else, I agree he is not suited to his present position and is a liability there.  He should either be fired or moved to a positon there his assets are useful and his weaknessess are not needed, such as manning a desk at a business where all you do is check people in and out and never detain or search for people.  i don't know if your company has posts like that, but he sure shouldn't stay where he is.  If you are giving him one last chance, you shoud sit down and esplain to him that it is his last chance and if there isn't major improvement he will be removed form his position.  Like i said, i don't know if there are places in your company where he wouldn't have to search or handcuff that he could be moved to, if not he should be terminated for being unable to proform the required job duties.  Some people just aren't cut out to do certain tasks.

Ribbon_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

I agree with everyone else. Either he goes behind a desk or out the door. It is just not worth it!

Jesse_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

Well, got to work for a meeting today and when I walked in theres the guy Im talking about speaking with some of the guys telling them how he was some bigshot security company owner in vegas (a story that I have never heard by the way) and how it was worse there then it was here and how he was well respected there in vegas cause he was the top person for the job.


Now, wheather what I did was inapropriate or not, I still did it., I called BS on it in front of all the guys and asked why he couldnt do that here. His answer pissed me off pretty good. It was nothing other than a shrug of the shoulders and "dont Know". I told him that "dont know" wasnt good enough for me for all the slack I had to pick up because of him.


I set him down and told him he was not going to work for us in this side of the job any longer, but that if a dispatch position opened up that we may end up calling him. All he said was, "well I for sure aint no dispatcher" he gathered his things and walked out the door.


I did wish him the best, though, but he didnt seem to care. But I guess thats how some people are, Guess he wasnt cut out for it.


 


Thanks for all the advice guys.


 

25-1-13-a_1__max50

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SGT405 says ...



Ok. How do keep someone that would fail a FTO period on just about anyones dept.? Officer safety is paramount. JOB1. PERIOD. Mine,yours, everyones.  Safety of the civilians around him is just as important. LWTH. LAWSUIT WAITING TO HAPPEN.  How can you gain the respect of your troops while keeping someone this incompetent? Move them around to train others? No way. A glorified paper pusher? What happens when you need that person back on the job? You are in charge, make the decision that commands the respect and integrity of your company, your officers and your rank.


 



^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^ IS EXACTLY WHAT I MISSED.  AND ^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^ LOSE HIM QUICKLY.

25-1-13-a_1__max50

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JD918 says ...



Well, got to work for a meeting today and when I walked in theres the guy Im talking about speaking with some of the guys telling them how he was some bigshot security company owner in vegas (a story that I have never heard by the way) and how it was worse there then it was here and how he was well respected there in vegas cause he was the top person for the job.


Now, wheather what I did was inapropriate or not, I still did it., I called BS on it in front of all the guys and asked why he couldnt do that here. His answer pissed me off pretty good. It was nothing other than a shrug of the shoulders and "dont Know". I told him that "dont know" wasnt good enough for me for all the slack I had to pick up because of him.


I set him down and told him he was not going to work for us in this side of the job any longer, but that if a dispatch position opened up that we may end up calling him. All he said was, "well I for sure aint no dispatcher" he gathered his things and walked out the door.


I did wish him the best, though, but he didnt seem to care. But I guess thats how some people are, Guess he wasnt cut out for it.


 


Thanks for all the advice guys.


 



I guess I should have read further......... Looks like the problem has resolved itself.  NEXT

Anonymous-killer-whale-232189_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

He solved your problem for you. The fact that he walked out on you after you tried to talk to him is proof positive he didn't belong. Now, he's someone else's problem child !!! I agree with everyone else, too; he was a potential danger to everyone around him, and you are better off without him.

Bronzestarribbon_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

Fire him and tell him to not let the door hit him in his 6 on the way out...

Hpim1329_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

it's always hard to see good people go. Sound like a good guy and has some skills. I remember telling a trainee once that if his officer safety wasn't up to snuff he would have to go because i would not have his death on me. They either cut it or they don't. If training can't fix the issues than you did what you could do.

Photo_user_banned_big

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JD918 says ...



 we also run people for warrants and hold them for the police if they are wanted.


 



Okay, so let me get this straight...the first time one of your guys "holds" the wrong person based on a warrant, are they going to do jail time, lose everything they own or both? The answer is both. Just FYI. Also, who is running warrants for you? I'm sensing a possible information integrity breach. You guys are private security, right?


To answer your question, give the guy remedial training followed by a probation period if you're in a good mood and if he has other assets that make him extremely valuable.


If not, can him ASAP. Safety is not a game. What happens when this guy gets someone hurt? Besides the direct damage or loss of life, who are they going to come crashing down on for knowing about the problem and not fixing it? Management.


In the meantime, he is not properly performing the tasks he is being paid to do, and making your company look like clowns. You have an image problem to begin with in private security, so find someone that is aspiring to go into LE who will want to do the best job possible for you.


***Okay, I see the problem has been solved based on your last post. Hope the door hit on the you-know-what on his way out. So in addition to being a lousy employee, he's a full of BS. It seems there are plenty of them in the private sector...not meant to be a cheap shot. I've just met too many of those personalities working as mall cops, security patrol guys, bounty hunters, etc.***

White_shirt_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

SeanJon. You are so correct as I have ran into the security personnel who can tell some whoppers. It seems like their excitement level goes up while they are telling their war stories. Generally they are unarmed.

Heart_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

The answer seems pretty obvious, what is more important his job or your life.... there is no room for error in officer safety!


Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today’s world do not have.

Ronald Reagan