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Taser for less lethal

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Posted about 4 years ago

 

To all whom shall see these I present greetings,


I work part-time for a University Police Department, small school (MIAA) and samll agency as our part-time officers make up half of the agency its about 14 total.  Question at hand is tasers instead of batons (side handle, ASP or any others).  I've always been a proponent of taser because of the less likely to breaking bones or causing more serious injury and extending the distance to engage your adversary and defend.


Looking for opinions and any stats from any agencies that use the taser over the batons as to injury's inflicted, proper training and use stats only.  We all know when stuff goes south anything goes, so I'm not looking for those numbers nor stories, although over a beer they would be entertaining no doubt.  I don't expect to get any change of mind from our Chief, but it may be beneficial for promoting through the liberal sector of the university.  I already have information from Taser, so just looking for stats or rough numbers of University LEO's that use taser and the overall opinion from students, faculty and staff if any exists?


Not writing any articles or publishing a book so no agency or school shall be named.  I just want to be able to intelligently carry on a discussion with the Chief and or his bosses as to why these are better alternative weapons than batons or why they are not?  Thanks to all that respond.  Be safe out there!

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

The department I work for has tightened things up a bit as to the use of the tazer.  Obviously you don't use it on pregnant mothers, elder people that are obviously less capable of running off with their walkers and running away from you, attacking animals or small children.  Our department has placed the tazer at the same level as the baton (above the gas) and something that while it's use it not to be avoided but the officer needs use sound judgement when deploying it.


Types of injuries, while normally minimal when used correctly, at worst could be loss of an eye (if the probe hits the eye due to poor aim or sudden last minute "ducking" by bad guy, probes going into the groin area (heard about), probes going into bones could cause a problem also.  Other injuries if not thinking about the consequences are the broken bones when bad guy gets tazed while 10+ feet up on a fence and falls. . . .and there is always the possibility of death as in everything we do.  If bad guy has excited dilerium, has bad heart or has been "binging" on any number of "drugs".  If "bad cop" continues pulling the trigger (over and over and over and. . . .I think you get the picture), the burn marks may become more noticeable and muscle spasms causing pulled muscles could be a byproduct.


While some people have tried to say that bad guy X was "electrocuted". . . .not at all likely due to the design and limitations of the instrument.  The tazer has been around for a couple of dozen years now in one form or another and I myself have not heard of any deaths that have directly related to the tazer on it's own merit.  There seems to have been SOMETHING else present that, when investigated, comes to light and the tazer is absolved again and again.


 


I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

John Bernard Books, from "The Shootist"

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

While this is not what you are looking for, i used to work for a campus police dept. in KS about the same size as yours, we got taser trained and then the chief bought 1 taser, and kept it locked in his office where it wasn't accessable, while still there i had suggested letting the shift supervisor carry it, but to no avail.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Greetings gents,


Thanks msp1672, the full time agency I work for carries them and I get trained on them annually, but I too have not heard of any direct incidents with taser being the COD.  In fact we had an incident where the family of a gentlemen that was on meds and had existing medical conditions unknown to the officers, had died and the officers were obsolved.  Knee jerk reactions have protmoted no offensive drive stunning now.  Bogus, but thats what the boss says thats what we do. 


As far as my Chief on campus I believe from an administrators point of view those are exactly the things him and the University are concerned of  and afraid of and that is why it will be a hard sell or no sale?  Coffee with the Chief though is always a good thing I guess.  This to me would be an easier sell to him in comparison to the selling of AR's in the vehicles.  I believe he will at least take it into consideration, regarding the taser, so thats why I ask and thanks for the response, should you have any other info for the good of the cause or any other cause don't be a stranger.  Nice to hear from you take care and be safe...

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

IMHO, tasers are a great tool for all properly trained, qualified LEOs.


PL Mentoring Team Member

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Casscocop,


Top o the mornin to you sir, I appreciate the input of any kind.  What agency in Kansas?  I began as a Security Guard for Emporia State University and then moved on after graduation and work full time for the SOin Topeka, KS.  I enjoy Capus Policing and when an opportunity to keep it up as a side line came about I applied and was hired in Topeka for Washburn University.


The Chief is the former Topeka Police Department Chief and that is why I believe he is hesitant and or against the idea of taser's on campus?  I may be wrong, but I do know he has indicated that he will not outfit the agency with tasers, so my guess is liability, hence the private research.  My focus is going the way of recent campus violence and since we are an open campus in the middle of the city, we get "run off" from the city and the county.  No pun intended, but my concern has always been the medical issue with popping some football player in his shoulder and regardless if its preexisting injury or not, you know he will say the police did it and ruined his football future.  Fortunately, we don't have many issues or serious problems as yet with regards to disgruntled or drunk athletes.  Our coaches keep the boys in line very well.


As I said being an open campus though we get all kinds coming and going and being able to increase my distance during defensive operations is better in most cases.  I guess we will see what happens, thanks for the response take care and be safe out there.  Stay in touch and feel free to send any other info or comments you gather or hear about back this way.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

mpd943,


Yes they are and that is why I would like to see that employed.  Some of the higher education institutions are pretty liberal and so that is why I was curious about what others had to say.  Thanks for the response keep em comin.  Be safe!

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Like any law enforcement tool, as long as you can articulate why you used it you should be okay.  It's just my opinion, but I have personally seen an attitude that I would say is too eager to use tasers.  I know certain officers that ditched their baton and OC from their duty belts all together once the got the taser.


In my Intermediate Use of Force class we discussed this topic.  My comment was that officers are more likely to use it because it is quick, clean, and, because it is considered less-than-lethal, officers are more inclined to use it.  I have personally seen this to be the case.


This past March I helped suppress a riot of over 1,000 people.  I saw officers pulling their tasers out to the ready.  I had the tall can of OC out and was scoffed at by other officers.


My final thought is that tasers are a wonderful tool that has been added to our tool belt.  Get properly trained and follow your agency's policy.  I truly believe that you will see less injuries of suspects and officers as a result.


 

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

The taser is an outstanding tool but the officer not only needs to be educated and train on how to use them, but when to use them. In that riot situation, I dont think that is the right place to employ it since I personally only use the taser when I intend to take someone into care, custody, or control AND keeping it in mind that we either have to have EMTs remove the darts OR take the suspect to an emergency room to have the barbs removed. Not something you want to fool with in a social chaos type situation. OC or an organized use of CS.


But then again, Im not at all a fan of OC either...but that is a situation of the right tool for the job.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

csiguy says ...



Casscocop,


Top o the mornin to you sir, I appreciate the input of any kind.  What agency in Kansas?  I began as a Security Guard for Emporia State University and then moved on after graduation and work full time for the SOin Topeka, KS.  I enjoy Capus Policing and when an opportunity to keep it up as a side line came about I applied and was hired in Topeka for Washburn University.


The Chief is the former Topeka Police Department Chief and that is why I believe he is hesitant and or against the idea of taser's on campus?  I may be wrong, but I do know he has indicated that he will not outfit the agency with tasers, so my guess is liability, hence the private research.  My focus is going the way of recent campus violence and since we are an open campus in the middle of the city, we get "run off" from the city and the county.  No pun intended, but my concern has always been the medical issue with popping some football player in his shoulder and regardless if its preexisting injury or not, you know he will say the police did it and ruined his football future.  Fortunately, we don't have many issues or serious problems as yet with regards to disgruntled or drunk athletes.  Our coaches keep the boys in line very well.


As I said being an open campus though we get all kinds coming and going and being able to increase my distance during defensive operations is better in most cases.  I guess we will see what happens, thanks for the response take care and be safe out there.  Stay in touch and feel free to send any other info or comments you gather or hear about back this way.



I previously worked for Kansas City Kansas Community College, while it was a commuter campus, there where apts ajacent to the college and section * housing right behind it, we would get spillover form those, had an enrollement of about 5000 at max.  As you at WU?

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Taser International will furnish you with all the statistics you can ever ask for.  A good selling point for you and your department is to look into the work comp claims on injuries to officers who use the taser and do not use the taser.  This is the best selling point and the stats will be amazing.


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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

JIMROC,


thanks for the info especially the work comp claims on injuries.


 


Casscocop,


How's things in Cass County compared to KC area?  Probably as much fun if not more.  We average about 5-6 thousand a semester, which I find interesting considering the cost to attend the school, but its a good school.  We have well known Law School, and Athletic program for our division.  I enjoy the different set of responsibilities...


 

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

ShockUSMC87 says ...



PSD_Team_Leader says ...



The taser is an outstanding tool but the officer not only needs to be educated and train on how to use them, but when to use them. In that riot situation, I dont think that is the right place to employ it since I personally only use the taser when I intend to take someone into care, custody, or control AND keeping it in mind that we either have to have EMTs remove the darts OR take the suspect to an emergency room to have the barbs removed. Not something you want to fool with in a social chaos type situation. OC or an organized use of CS.


But then again, Im not at all a fan of OC either...but that is a situation of the right tool for the job.



You guys dont remove the probes?


We remove the probes on our suspects unless they are in vital area like the groin, breast for females, head or any other area like that......otherwise we remove the probes ourself and that is the end of that, they then go to jail.



Same here, we pluck them, unless they are in there eye, or groin area.


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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Yeah we pluck em too then the probs and the cartridge goes into evidence as part of the case along with our use of force reports

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

We carry both. Baton, and Taser. Also carry pepper spray. I believe in the right tool for the Job. It depends on the situation. Each tool has a very specific use, and a very specific reaction (for the most part). Of course, you can also be creative. I've used my baton on a couple of occasions to "pry" an uncooperative subject into the back seat of the Car.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

 You said "Tasers instead of batons . . ."


I'm soon to be a college student and I hope to work with the campus police. I'm not a huge fan of the Taser. It has its place in modern law enforcement, but just because it does not break bones does not mean it is a safer less-lethal option. 


50,000 volts through one's body is not any better or safer than hitting them. They are both very powerful options to effectively arrest an individual.


This opinion is not to say that the taser should not be used; every tool has its place on a use of force continuum. On the category of less lethal, it is no better to shock someone than hit them.


I, myself, want to be better trained in hand-to-hand combat/martial arts because I have seen the Taser as a replacement for that in not-so-extreme cases with suspects that could be controlled physically rather than electrically.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Drummadude says ...



 You said "Tasers instead of batons . . ."


I'm soon to be a college student and I hope to work with the campus police. I'm not a huge fan of the Taser. It has its place in modern law enforcement, but just because it does not break bones does not mean it is a safer less-lethal option. 


50,000 volts through one's body is not any better or safer than hitting them. They are both very powerful options to effectively arrest an individual.


This opinion is not to say that the taser should not be used; every tool has its place on a use of force continuum. On the category of less lethal, it is no better to shock someone than hit them.


I, myself, want to be better trained in hand-to-hand combat/martial arts because I have seen the Taser as a replacement for that in not-so-extreme cases with suspects that could be controlled physically rather than electrically.



Yes both a baton and Taser has its place and serves a purpose.  No a Taser is not the same as striking someone with an impact weapon. 


You have the rest of your life to solve the problem, how long your life lasts depends on how well you do it. -Clint Smith

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Drummadude says ...



 You said "Tasers instead of batons . . ."


I'm soon to be a college student and I hope to work with the campus police. I'm not a huge fan of the Taser. It has its place in modern law enforcement, but just because it does not break bones does not mean it is a safer less-lethal option. 


50,000 volts through one's body is not any better or safer than hitting them. They are both very powerful options to effectively arrest an individual.


This opinion is not to say that the taser should not be used; every tool has its place on a use of force continuum. On the category of less lethal, it is no better to shock someone than hit them.


I, myself, want to be better trained in hand-to-hand combat/martial arts because I have seen the Taser as a replacement for that in not-so-extreme cases with suspects that could be controlled physically rather than electrically.



". . . .better trained in hand-to-hand combat/martial arts. . . .", WOW, really think highly of your abilities don't you.  As you progress through your career (i.e. get older) you will find that there are plenty of people that will equal your ability. . . .and exceed them.  With all of the interest in MMA and all, personally. . . .I don't want to give any idiot the chance to latch on to me.  While I have the mentality of winning, I also recognize that as I get older that I don't heal as quickly as I use to.  Maybe its just me but any muscle pulls, abrasions or any other types of injuries seem to take longer or are just more of an inconvenience than they used to be.  With that being said, between a 21" baton or a taser that can reach many feet. . . . .hmmmmm, wonder which item I would rather work with to subdue idiot?


I'm not questioning your abilities to defend yourself in hand-to-hand combat. . . .just saying that keeping people at arms length (or farther), until absolutely necessary, has always worked for me, especially when they really don't like the plans for their immediate future.


I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

John Bernard Books, from "The Shootist"

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Scurge says ...



Drummadude says ...



 You said "Tasers instead of batons . . ."


I'm soon to be a college student and I hope to work with the campus police. I'm not a huge fan of the Taser. It has its place in modern law enforcement, but just because it does not break bones does not mean it is a safer less-lethal option. 


50,000 volts through one's body is not any better or safer than hitting them. They are both very powerful options to effectively arrest an individual.


This opinion is not to say that the taser should not be used; every tool has its place on a use of force continuum. On the category of less lethal, it is no better to shock someone than hit them.


I, myself, want to be better trained in hand-to-hand combat/martial arts because I have seen the Taser as a replacement for that in not-so-extreme cases with suspects that could be controlled physically rather than electrically.



Yes both a baton and Taser has its place and serves a purpose.  No a Taser is not the same as striking someone with an impact weapon. 



I forgot to add in every confrontation there is ALWAYS going to be at least on gun involved, yours.  Fighting fair and losing is not an option.  If you think its about a fair fight when someone resists then don't even bother applying


You have the rest of your life to solve the problem, how long your life lasts depends on how well you do it. -Clint Smith

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Scurge says ...



Scurge says ...



Drummadude says ...



 You said "Tasers instead of batons . . ."


I'm soon to be a college student and I hope to work with the campus police. I'm not a huge fan of the Taser. It has its place in modern law enforcement, but just because it does not break bones does not mean it is a safer less-lethal option. 


50,000 volts through one's body is not any better or safer than hitting them. They are both very powerful options to effectively arrest an individual.


This opinion is not to say that the taser should not be used; every tool has its place on a use of force continuum. On the category of less lethal, it is no better to shock someone than hit them.


I, myself, want to be better trained in hand-to-hand combat/martial arts because I have seen the Taser as a replacement for that in not-so-extreme cases with suspects that could be controlled physically rather than electrically.



Yes both a baton and Taser has its place and serves a purpose.  No a Taser is not the same as striking someone with an impact weapon. 



I forgot to add in every confrontation there is ALWAYS going to be at least on gun involved, yours.  Fighting fair and losing is not an option.  If you think its about a fair fight when someone resists then don't even bother applying



Very true. An officer has two things to worry about, the combatant and that officer's weapon. In a hand to hand situation, the officer must subdue the suspect and keep his gun out of that suspects hands at the same time. It's almost like fighting with one hand tied behind your back. I know I'm preaching to the choir, I'm just thinking out loud. Bring the supect down quickly and safely and provide him/her with as little opportunity to gain control of my weapon as possible. Otherwise, the duty weapon is just one more thing to worry about in a physical confrontation. Again, just thinking out loud.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

elaken says ...



Scurge says ...



Scurge says ...



Drummadude says ...



 You said "Tasers instead of batons . . ."


I'm soon to be a college student and I hope to work with the campus police. I'm not a huge fan of the Taser. It has its place in modern law enforcement, but just because it does not break bones does not mean it is a safer less-lethal option. 


50,000 volts through one's body is not any better or safer than hitting them. They are both very powerful options to effectively arrest an individual.


This opinion is not to say that the taser should not be used; every tool has its place on a use of force continuum. On the category of less lethal, it is no better to shock someone than hit them.


I, myself, want to be better trained in hand-to-hand combat/martial arts because I have seen the Taser as a replacement for that in not-so-extreme cases with suspects that could be controlled physically rather than electrically.



Yes both a baton and Taser has its place and serves a purpose.  No a Taser is not the same as striking someone with an impact weapon. 



I forgot to add in every confrontation there is ALWAYS going to be at least on gun involved, yours.  Fighting fair and losing is not an option.  If you think its about a fair fight when someone resists then don't even bother applying



Very true. An officer has two things to worry about, the combatant and that officer's weapon. In a hand to hand situation, the officer must subdue the suspect and keep his gun out of that suspects hands at the same time. It's almost like fighting with one hand tied behind your back. I know I'm preaching to the choir, I'm just thinking out loud. Bring the supect down quickly and safely and provide him/her with as little opportunity to gain control of my weapon as possible. Otherwise, the duty weapon is just one more thing to worry about in a physical confrontation. Again, just thinking out loud.



I hate to butt heads with you Elaken, but we have WAY more than 2 things to worry about. We have to worry about, first and foremost, the Innocent Public. Then ourselves. That includes our gun, baton, pepper spray, taser, radio, etc. Then of course, the perp, and their safety. Not to mention property in the immediate area, people in the area, dweeling that the perp could run into, what is behind the perp in case I have to shoot him, and an array of other things.


That's not the point of the thread, but I wanted to make that clear.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

BSL1123 says ...



elaken says ...



Scurge says ...



Scurge says ...



Drummadude says ...



 You said "Tasers instead of batons . . ."


I'm soon to be a college student and I hope to work with the campus police. I'm not a huge fan of the Taser. It has its place in modern law enforcement, but just because it does not break bones does not mean it is a safer less-lethal option. 


50,000 volts through one's body is not any better or safer than hitting them. They are both very powerful options to effectively arrest an individual.


This opinion is not to say that the taser should not be used; every tool has its place on a use of force continuum. On the category of less lethal, it is no better to shock someone than hit them.


I, myself, want to be better trained in hand-to-hand combat/martial arts because I have seen the Taser as a replacement for that in not-so-extreme cases with suspects that could be controlled physically rather than electrically.



Yes both a baton and Taser has its place and serves a purpose.  No a Taser is not the same as striking someone with an impact weapon. 



I forgot to add in every confrontation there is ALWAYS going to be at least on gun involved, yours.  Fighting fair and losing is not an option.  If you think its about a fair fight when someone resists then don't even bother applying



Very true. An officer has two things to worry about, the combatant and that officer's weapon. In a hand to hand situation, the officer must subdue the suspect and keep his gun out of that suspects hands at the same time. It's almost like fighting with one hand tied behind your back. I know I'm preaching to the choir, I'm just thinking out loud. Bring the supect down quickly and safely and provide him/her with as little opportunity to gain control of my weapon as possible. Otherwise, the duty weapon is just one more thing to worry about in a physical confrontation. Again, just thinking out loud.



I hate to butt heads with you Elaken, but we have WAY more than 2 things to worry about. We have to worry about, first and foremost, the Innocent Public. Then ourselves. That includes our gun, baton, pepper spray, taser, radio, etc. Then of course, the perp, and their safety. Not to mention property in the immediate area, people in the area, dweeling that the perp could run into, what is behind the perp in case I have to shoot him, and an array of other things.


That's not the point of the thread, but I wanted to make that clear.



No problem. Yes, in the grand scheme of things there are many more variables to consider. All the more reason for the officer to have many tools at his disposal. I was watching a video, it might be on here, where an officer was confronting a suspect who became combative unexpectedly. I'll admit my first thought was, why doesn't the officer just take him down using his whole body? Then I noticed that he was both guarding his weapon and defending himself from the attack at the same time. The variable of the officer having to worry about his gun just as much as the perp in a hand to hand, one on one situation, was never something I really thought of before then. All the perp needs is one hand free for a second and in these scenarios, I would say that may be relatively easy for him to accomplish. Add in those other important factors you mentioned and the officer has a tough job indeed. Good add BSL, you unput is always appreciated.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

I am not a LEO.. but trained with one recently about weapons... in particular guns.  But, we talked about Tasers and what a great option they were instead of using a gun.  He also stated that it was better to use than a baton, when a person was being non-compliant and hostile to the officer, because that officer removes himself from confronting that individual with bodily force.  The Taser will go out 15 feet.  I don't think this is unsafe even though it is 50,000 Volts.  We watched a video where a drunk guy was resisting arrest.  Would not put his hands behind his back and was fighting with the Officer.  Officer then got out the Taser and tased him... he kept getting up after the 5 seconds. He got up 5 times, the Officer tased him 5 times.  He finally gave up.  I, personally think this is safer than using bodily force for the Officer... and God forbid they have to use their gun.  But, I would agree that Tasers would be a safer option for the Officer and the other person when it comes to controlling that person who is resisting.  Just my opinion.


"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives." - Ronald Reagan

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

The information I sought is coming in and thanks to those who pointed me to those leads.  I have enjoyed coming back to this and reading the responses.  Keep up the response as perhaps this is a good discussion topic with some of the negative publicity regarding tasers and its use?


Thanks to all that are responding and I must say the recent case law that has been reviewed and put out from the courts, this can be found on many web sites, but recently on PATC website, Public Agency Training Council for non LEO's that want to look at it.   My recent thought is this as officers and recruits we need to be thinking about the bad guys.  I shall qualify this statement by saying if you are not staying physically and mentally fit you are cheating yourself. 


The inmates are working out physically on a daily basis for the next few or twenty few years, what are you doing?  Mentally the inmates practice in the yard under the watchful eyes of CO's.  Please, any CO's out there I invite your comments too and help educate us because you guys live with em and see it everyday.  There are videos of inmates running drills to catch officers CO's and LEO off guard for the purpose of hurting us bad.  Find em and train mentally and physically for the unexpected confrontation. 


Adding to this, women are training too.  I see a lot of gang activity involving females and young kids training and being tested on ways to over power the complacent LEO on their beats.  Can't stress it enough folks think out there!  As far as women inmates and suspects, no disrespect ladies, but if they wanna play like men play, then they get treated like the men get treated.  Everyone knows what I mean, so think about that.  The topic is tasers, but further discussion in a direction that this thread seems to be going is welcome.  Thanks, be safe out there!

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Cat, the problem, and what you don't see, is the scrutiny that comes from a taser use incident. Like CSI has mentioned there is a LOT of bad press on the Taser. Every time a Taser is discharged it's not merely a Use Of Force Report, but also a lot of other factors that come into play, that I would rather not talk about in an unsecured forum. but rest assured, sometimes it's easier to Just fight the guy.

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

BSL1123 says ...



Cat, the problem, and what you don't see, is the scrutiny that comes from a taser use incident. Like CSI has mentioned there is a LOT of bad press on the Taser. Every time a Taser is discharged it's not merely a Use Of Force Report, but also a lot of other factors that come into play, that I would rather not talk about in an unsecured forum. but rest assured, sometimes it's easier to Just fight the guy.



Really?  I would have thought the opposite.  Rather than beat the guy... I just would have figured it would have been safer for both parties involved.  Hmmm.. Interesting!


"Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives." - Ronald Reagan

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

 There are a lot of good replies in this thread. I have a lot to learn in my future about officer safety and public safety. A few months ago I saw an article that some small-town cops tased a 10 year old boy at a day care. Instances like this are what has made the Taser such a controversial tool.


I wish I could speak from experience on this..... but when it comes between getting hit with a hard stick or getting shocked with 50,000 volts, they are not swappable.


Csiguy, do you intend to replace the baton with a Taser or simply add it onto your available selection of tools? Tasers are great but I'm not too sure that one can replace the other. Electricity and broken bones equally suck.

Bronzestarribbon_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

Drummadude,


Its not my call to replace or add anything as that is an administrative call.  As a norm there would be no replacement, it would merely be another tool on the "Tool Belt".  I'm merely gathering research to present an arguement for consideration. 


At the agency I'm working part-time at, the University, I'm merely an officer.  At my full-time job, I'm a supervisor and we find the taser is an excellent tool, but we still carry batons.  The baton can be used a strike weapon, a defensive weapon and restraint / Control device until cuffs are applied.  Its part of a use of continuum and allows for the officer to escalate and deescalate the situation when complience is achieved while dealing with an aggressive subject.  The taser allows for distance and enhances officer safety.  Officer safety is paramount.  Injuries still occur and so may broken bones, but that is why training and certification are necessary...

687-45b_5270

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

 I am a student in a small college and our Campus Safety uses batons and I feel that they are ineffective. I see students get hit with them and they run away hurt. Then we see lawsuits against our school because the student has a broken bone or wrist. I think that my school should have tazers because I feel they are more effective when trying to apprehend a student. Also, the student will not have major injuries.

Silver_warrior_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 4 years ago

 

JCastelot says ...



 I am a student in a small college and our Campus Safety uses batons and I feel that they are ineffective. I see students get hit with them and they run away hurt. Then we see lawsuits against our school because the student has a broken bone or wrist. I think that my school should have tazers because I feel they are more effective when trying to apprehend a student. Also, the student will not have major injuries.



Unfortunately there is no "silver bullet". . . .so to speak.  Batons do have their place and have been an accepted means of dealing with the "less than lethal" situations for many. . . .many. . . .decades.  While tazers have been very effective in dealing with certain situations, there are still situations where the use of tazers is not recommended.  As for broken bones and all that the students have "suffered" over the years, while it may sound a bit callous. . . .sometimes you get what you "play" for and it sounds like those students got what they were looking for. . . .a little pain and then the courts gave them a little money.


Yes, if you look back you will see that I am a strong advocate of tazers.  Much better to try to deal with someone at a distance of 20+ feet than at 2 feet when that other person does not like the immediate future you have planned for them.  But, what happens if you miss?  Do you carry extra cartridges?  What happens if the tazer doesn't work correctly for some unknown reason (yes, you test it before you put it on but it is still a mechanical device that is capable of failure).  The baton is probably the least likely item to fail that you will carry (other than your own mind).  As said before, everything that is carried is carried for a reason and when push comes to shove. . .gas expires, guns run out of bullets and tazers can run down/fail but a baton will still work until YOU wear out.


I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.

John Bernard Books, from "The Shootist"

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