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It's a gateway to harder drugs. Most everyone I know started with marijuana and then progressed. Then how long should it be out of your system before driving and working. When you pull someone over how are you going to prove they were high at the time unless you do a blood test. At least DWI you have a breath test and other road test that pretty much say yes they are drunk.

As far as medical use, it will be like anything else. Those that don't need will abuse the system.

Here is a link to a documentary from the History Channel regarding how marijuana became illegal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oloobzAU-3Q&feature=related

MIKIESPLACE says ...

ooooh touchy subject. maybe the day they legalize marijuana i will twist one up and enjoy a new day but not until. as to being a gateway drug? i think personally that is like saying petting is a gateway to std's. Marijauna is not an addictive drug, does contain many medicinal properties in forms not available to sick people and i wouldl not hold back any needed medication to anyone sick. yes there are people who will abuse anything, that wont help the folks who really benefit from its use.

Yup, Yup and more Yups. . . . .marijuana is NOT addictive. . . . .just like cigarettes aren't addictive.  Mark Twain put it best when he said he could stop at any time, but he never did.

I'm not quite sure what your source is for it not being addictive when I have yet to meet anybody that has actually used it to any great extent that doesn't want to light up again.  And as for the medical properties, I really doubt any LEGITIMATE doctor would argue those merits.  They MAY say that there are some small benifits here and there but that the downsides outweigh those benefits in ANY case.

Also, what about all of the hands that have "touched" any single batch.  What have they done to "step on it" along the way.  What have THEY added to it to extend their money maker?  No, there are not enough benifits to outweigh the downsides for me.

Lighthouse23 says ...

It's a gateway to harder drugs. Most everyone I know started with marijuana and then progressed. Then how long should it be out of your system before driving and working. When you pull someone over how are you going to prove they were high at the time unless you do a blood test. At least DWI you have a breath test and other road test that pretty much say yes they are drunk. As far as medical use, it will be like anything else. Those that don't need will abuse the system.

Although I agree it can be a gateway drug to other illegal drugs, to me the real gateway drug is alcohol.  Alcohol is widely available and many people I know who ended up with a drug problem of one kind or another started with alcohol. 

I don't think it's irrelevant, though, that it is often a first illegal drug because that implies that a person is willing to step across a line to get high.  Then across another line.  The use of alcohol by underaged kids is of course illegal, but getting it out of Mom and Dad's liquor cabinet is a bit of a different experience.

How is alcohol a gateway drug... maybe to those with a feeble mind?

SeanJon says ...

 

At present, it is illegal and part of the biggest pyramid scheme going, drug smuggling. Being down here on the border with Mexico, I can tell you what the drug trafficing business is like first-hand. The same people that control weed control the flow of all other substances coming across and violence is a daily issue here or on the south side. There is blood on every package of marijuana that comes across and the money users pay for their little dimebag might buy the bullet that kills me or another LEO. I hate dopers and users.

Do think legalizing it will put some of these knuckleheads out of business or will it just cause more problems?

rarebit says ...

SeanJon says ...

 

At present, it is illegal and part of the biggest pyramid scheme going, drug smuggling. Being down here on the border with Mexico, I can tell you what the drug trafficing business is like first-hand. The same people that control weed control the flow of all other substances coming across and violence is a daily issue here or on the south side. There is blood on every package of marijuana that comes across and the money users pay for their little dimebag might buy the bullet that kills me or another LEO. I hate dopers and users.

Do think legalizing it will put some of these knuckleheads out of business or will it just cause more problems?

 

In a word, no. It's a common misconception (or deception, depending on the speaker) that legalizing marijuana will put smugglers/dealers out of business. Once again, these people are involved in trafficking cocaine, meth, heroin, etc. (heroin use is on the rise in AZ and other areas now that you don't have to shoot it). Marijuana is only part of their business.

Besides, there is no reason to believe that legalization will stop marijuana trafficking in the first place. Why? Because like everything else (especially in agriculture industry) they can produce it cheaper south of the border. Compared to US growers (who would undoubtedly would be highly taxed and be faced with higher salary costs) or legally imported stock (tariffs), illegally imported weed would still be very much present. People often forget that numerous items are smuggled into the country despite being perfectly legal here (alcohol, cigarettes, etc.). USCBP, ICE, USCG, et al intercept plenty of contraband besides drugs everyday. In truth, it may reduce their income slightly but it will not come close to putting them out of business.

NoahBallard says ...

How is alcohol a gateway drug... maybe to those with a feeble mind?

 

Yes.  Children.  When I worked with high school kids who were using meth among other drugs, but their drug of choice was meth, they had all started using alcohol as a mind/mood altering substance.  The average age of the group I worked with at the time they started drinking was 12.  Their next drug was marijuana.

Needless to say these were not people who would have a glass of wine to complement a good dinner.  They were people who would drink until they puked and then drink some more.  Studies show that people who are addiction prone are more affected differently by their very first exposure to the addictive substance from the very first time they encounter it.

SeanJon says ...

 

Besides, there is no reason to believe that legalization will stop marijuana trafficking in the first place. Why? Because like everything else (especially in agriculture industry) they can produce it cheaper south of the border. Compared to US growers (who would undoubtedly would be highly taxed and be faced with higher salary costs) or legally imported stock (tariffs), illegally imported weed would still be very much present. People often forget that numerous items are smuggled into the country despite being perfectly legal here (alcohol, cigarettes, etc.). USCBP, ICE, USCG, et al intercept plenty of contraband besides drugs everyday. In truth, it may reduce their income slightly but it will not come close to putting them out of business.

 

Very good point. I had never thought about the part of them producing it cheaper, never realy thought about the idea of just how much stuff is purchased south of the border and brought up here, although I do know it goes on. I have just never put it into that prospective. Thanks for the insight. With it being legal it would be easier to slip somehing else in with it as it came across.

Marijuana is at times laced with something else. If it were to become legal, IMO I think there is a good chance that the marijuana would start  to become laced even more, that way the dealer has a better product then someone else so that you will buy from him. This could creat a lot more over doses.

You also have to remember that getting high off of weed can impair your driving more than cigarettes can, therefore putting the other public in danger.  From what I've heard, I believe getting high and driving, is the same or worse than driving with a .08 or more.

lorilwalker says ...

 

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I am not an LEO but I will give my opinion. :) 

 

I personally believe that marijuana should be legalized and it is my opinion that is less dangerous than alcohol.  I believe that marijuana should be legalized and regulated with laws just like there are with alcohol.  For instance, you should have to be a certain age to legally purchase marijuana, all marijuana sold must be approved by the FDA, and driving under the influence of marijuana or any drug should come with harsh punishments.  I believe that through the legalization of marijuana you would find that prisons, local jails, and county jails would be less crowded.  I also believe that it would be harmful to the gang network seen throughout the country.  It would seriously cut into their business if corporations were allowed to mass produce marijuana and sell it legally. 

I will have to say that marijuana is an addictive substance.  I have had a boyfriend that was seriously addicted to marijuana, he had to smoke up right after he woke up and also when he got off of work and numerous other times during the day.  He would go through withdraw if he could not have it.  No matter what type of substance it is - chocolate, potato chips, marijuana, alcohol, cocaine, tobacco, etc. it can be an addictive substance if a person relies on it in order to make it through their day.

It is just my belief that legalizing marijuana would be better when we could spend our time and resources fighting a much bigger fight, like fighting against cocaine or meth.

Let's see, how many times can we contradict ourselves.  First off you say you are not in law enforcement so I will give you the fact that you have not had to go out to crash scenes where people have been drunk or high and cost the life of an innocent person.  So, for now we will take that reality out of the equation since you have no personal experience with it but listen to me when I tell you that it is absolutely NO fun what so ever having to show up at someone's house at 3am.  They wake up to see 2 officers standing at their door and they begin the tears BEFORE you even have a chance to introduce yourself because they KNOW whose home and who is not.  So, when you are willing to go out with me on a death notification, I will then listen to your unqualified opinion about how marijuana is not harmful.

Next, you talk about how alcohol and marijuana should be considered the same.  WELL, ITS NOT!  As I said in an earlier post here, alcohol is in and out of your system in about a day, depending upon the quanity in the system.  Marijuana stays in the system, in the fat cells for nearly a month after one stops smoking.  Since both have a depressing effect on the body, when is it safe for a person to drive a car after they have smoked. . . . .an hour. . . . .a day. . . . . a month????  Michigan law says you can not drive a vehicle with ANY AMOUNT in your body period.  So if you have an addicted person like one of your ex-boyfriends, then he would NEVER be able to drive. . . .how would he get to work????

My father in law retired from FDA after having spent 40+ years as an analytical chemist.  If you are interested in listening for hours at a time, he can tell you exactly how the drug works, breaks down in the body, effects of the drug on the body, pros and cons and long term effects on the body.  And he can do that with any drug since that is what he was hired to do, explain how the drug reacts on the cellular level and what effects it will have.  He has no use for the argument for marijuana for medicinal use because the cons outweigh the pros many times over.

You admit that the drug is addictive because your boyfriend was an addict.  I have seen people addicted to cigarettes (among other things, like crack) pick up the butts of old cigarettes off the ground and smoke the last 1/4 inch still left because they could not afford the cost of buying their own.  Oh by the way, this was 20 years ago when cigarettes were much cheaper than they are now.  Here in Michigan, cigarettes are $7.00/pack.  It doesn't matter what you are addicted to, you constantly need more and more to get the same "high" that you were getting when you first started, yes even with caffeine.  What happens when the need for weed starts to out strip the ability to pay????  HUH????  THEY START STEALING THINGS FROM OTHER PEOPLE TO PAY FOR THEIR HABIT!!!!  You don't have to be an Einstein to figure that out now do you????

I could go on and on but I don't think you will make it to this point without poo-pooing me as some conservative whack job.  I am, to a point.  Yes I am conservative and I believe that you are responsible for your actions.  I will tell you that the people I see that are addicted to illicit drugs of any kind are some of the most amoral and cowardice people that I have seen in my life!  They will do and say anything just so they can get to that next high and these people include your weed smokers.  So I have absolutely no feelings for marijuana users as they have caused just as many, if not more, crimes (including murder) than some of the harder drugs that are out there.  Also, the money that a person pays for that weed ends up in the hands of people that are some of the most paranoid people out there and will kill anyone that they believe is after their money/power/whatever.

Ok, I will get off of my soapbox now.

Steve

lorilwalker says ...

I personally believe that marijuana should be legalized and it is my opinion that is less dangerous than alcohol.  I believe that marijuana should be legalized and regulated with laws just like there are with alcohol.  For instance, you should have to be a certain age to legally purchase marijuana, all marijuana sold must be approved by the FDA, and driving under the influence of marijuana or any drug should come with harsh punishments.  I believe that through the legalization of marijuana you would find that prisons, local jails, and county jails would be less crowded.  I also believe that it would be harmful to the gang network seen throughout the country.  It would seriously cut into their business if corporations were allowed to mass produce marijuana and sell it legally. 

I will have to say that marijuana is an addictive substance.  I have had a boyfriend that was seriously addicted to marijuana, he had to smoke up right after he woke up and also when he got off of work and numerous other times during the day.  He would go through withdraw if he could not have it.  No matter what type of substance it is - chocolate, potato chips, marijuana, alcohol, cocaine, tobacco, etc. it can be an addictive substance if a person relies on it in order to make it through their day.

It is just my belief that legalizing marijuana would be better when we could spend our time and resources fighting a much bigger fight, like fighting against cocaine or meth.

I have to ask, did you even read my last post? Marijuana is only a fraction of the illegal drug business so legalizing it would not seriously cut into anyone's business. Also, once again it would not stop the illegal importation and sale of marijuana by criminal organizations.

Since you are not a LEO and respectfully I am not sure how acquainted with the prison system you are, I will pass along a few facts. The prisons and jails are not overflowing with people solely there for marijuana. Those that are there solely for offenses related to weed represent a very small fraction of the inmates. Do you have any idea of the conviction rate in any given state? The reality is that if they got arrested for weed, then they aren't doing any real time unless they had additional charges or they are on their 5th or 6th arrest for the same thing.

As for allocating time and resource fighting harder drugs? Again, the same people controlling the flow of marijuana run those same harder drugs. If we were to legalize marijuana, we would not magically have more manpower or money. We would be patrolling the same streets, investigating the same people, fighting the same fight.

I'll put it this way, if we passed a law that said all motorcycles are free from traffic tickets, what would happen? A lot of the people who drive motorcycles might take advantage of the law and do some seriously stupid stuff. More people would buy motorcycles so they could drive stupid too. More people on motorcycles would end up wrapped around a tree. Kind of a no-brainer, right?

In the meantime, what has changed as far as enforcement is concerned? Are there more patrol officers on the streets? Nope. They would still be doing the same job as before patrolling the same streets. People in cars and trucks still break the law. A lot of those motorcycle riders also have regular cars so they still break the law when driving their 4-wheel vehicle. In other words, the patrol officers may not be able to get them when they ride a bike, but ultimately they are still enforcing law on the same people anyway.

Personally, I'm still waiting for a viable positive reason to legalize the substance.

It is true that Marijuana is only a fraction of the illegal drug business.  It only brings in about $36 billion per year in business, which is more than corn and wheat combined.  Not a lot of money in terms of the overall drug network but still a very large business.  I cannot believe that losing that kind of money would be small for any type of business person. 



I do not know the ins and outs of the legal system, I do know some though.  No, the prisons are not overflowing with people who are in there solely for marijuana.  However, the prison system is not the only place that those with marijuana related charges end up.  People who are on drug charges require the use of a public defender in a lot of cases.  While they may not go to jail they will most likely get probation, taxing the ability of probation offices.  Also, I may be wrong but I believe that they do have to stay in either city or county jail if they are unable to meet bail? 



Yes, and I am not speaking of people who are running the marijuana - I am speaking of those who are caught on minor possession charges.  How would this change how a police officer does his job?  Well, if it is not illegal then you would not be making an arrest for that reason, filling out the report for the arrest, booking the person for it.  Instead of this, you would be arresting somebody else, responding to a domestic, pulling over a drunk driver, handling a robbery report, etc.  Yes, you would still be doing the same things you did before and you would also be enforcing laws that have to do with marijuana.



There are people who do get arrested on marijuana related charges and they have no other reason to be arrested besides this.  Not every single person who has marijuana in their possession is running around breaking every law they come across.  At the moment, marijuana is illegal and I fully support the law being enforced.  I also don't do drugs, I wouldn't do drugs if they were legal, and really am not all that adamant about fighting for the cause. 

lorilwalker says ...

"It is true that Marijuana is only a fraction of the illegal drug business.  It only brings in about $36 billion per year in business, which is more than corn and wheat combined.  Not a lot of money in terms of the overall drug network but still a very large business.  I cannot believe that losing that kind of money would be small for any type of business person."

Okay, so they only make 200 billion instead of 236 billion? Your number is also a combined (and estimated) total so no one group is losing nearly that much. Like any other business, they will respond to the changing market. I can assure you that they would destroy legal growers crops in order to reduce supply and increase demand (I was once told this by a smuggler, yes they have contingences if we ever legalize it). They would push harder drugs to create a stop loss on their infringed business (great more crack addicts and meth heads). Also as I said, they will still be smuggling it in because they can do it cheaper. Sorry, their business doesn't just disappear.

"I do not know the ins and outs of the legal system, I do know some though.  No, the prisons are not overflowing with people who are in there solely for marijuana.  However, the prison system is not the only place that those with marijuana related charges end up.  People who are on drug charges require the use of a public defender in a lot of cases.  While they may not go to jail they will most likely get probation, taxing the ability of probation offices.  Also, I may be wrong but I believe that they do have to stay in either city or county jail if they are unable to meet bail?" 

No, often they are ORed (own recognizance) if it is a minor charge. True public defenders are over-worked. None of them would be laid off however, as there's plenty of work to go around. Marijuana offenders rarely have much if any probation time so there is little direct impact on the POs case load. Again, nothing would change.



"Yes, and I am not speaking of people who are running the marijuana - I am speaking of those who are caught on minor possession charges.  How would this change how a police officer does his job?  Well, if it is not illegal then you would not be making an arrest for that reason, filling out the report for the arrest, booking the person for it.  Instead of this, you would be arresting somebody else, responding to a domestic, pulling over a drunk driver, handling a robbery report, etc.  Yes, you would still be doing the same things you did before and you would also be enforcing laws that have to do with marijuana."

I can write an arrest report and book someone in half an hour. But many LEOs don't need to take even that long; a lot of the grunt work is done at the jail by someone else. At times a LEO's time is taxed. But most of the time there is no conflict. Domestics get handled. Traffic stops are made. No one is failing to do their job because they are arresting someone for dope.

"There are people who do get arrested on marijuana related charges and they have no other reason to be arrested besides this.  Not every single person who has marijuana in their possession is running around breaking every law they come across.  At the moment, marijuana is illegal and I fully support the law being enforced.  I also don't do drugs, I wouldn't do drugs if they were legal, and really am not all that adamant about fighting for the cause." 

Again, not being a LEO you might not fully realize how most of the time a drug arrest is coupled with other charges. I just looked at the 4:30 Pima County booking list (those booked between roughly noon and 1600). Several people had marijuana related charges. All of them also had other non-drug related charges. Pima County represents a large city, highways and rural areas so it's a nice mix. Not one was busted for just dope.

I don't practice triage law enforcement. I don't ignore one portion of the law in favor of another. Legalizing something in order to make it a non-issue is a fast way to dig yourself into a hole that gets deep quickly and is a complete cop-out (forgive the pun).

Think of all the time, money and prison space we could save by making other things legal? Maybe retract stalking laws (stalking by itself doesn't "hurt" anyone)? Maybe drop laws against crack? Maybe expunge domestic violence laws? Afterall, more LEOs get hurt responding to those than anything else. Do you hear how ridiculous that all sounds? There are laws against things for a reason. There is a posted speed limit for a reason. Stalking is a crime for a reason. I don't see an end to domestic violence on the horizon, but making it legal in order to free up resources (according to your position) isn't the answer.

Beyond theoretically freeing up certain resources (with which I completely disagree), how would we as a society benefit through legalization? I'm still waiting for someone (not just you loril) to provide a viable position.

leprechankid says ...

B_Mac says ...

I just have one question... do you guys really think anyone read the books you just posted?

We're interested in the topic, but not that interested.

Well, I have, but then I started the topic, so I am that interested. I hope you got the part of mine where I said thank you to everyone who did post.  :)

Okay, my bad... carry on.