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Guys are we really resorting to "trash" talk about this topic. I believe that this is an argument that started long before any of us were born and will be going on LONG after we are worm dirt. I believe that Mudpuppy is entitled to his opinion based on his expirence and service, Cuffs you are entitled to yours...I have done the MPI gig, the PSD gig, and the SRT gig. Yes they were all fun! They have the ups and downs, good and bad. I mean at the end of the day, wether it be UCMJ, US Code, State, or Unit Specific offenses, WE all still UPHOLD the law in someway, shape, form or fashion.

No need to trash talk...or get irate or degrade another, WE are after all too professional for that are we not?

Just my two cents.

mudpuppynj says ...

CuffS30, I do not see how you can get so angry over someone else's opinions. Last I checked we have the beauty of freedom of speech in this country because of guys like YOU and ME. Anyway, I actually enjoyed my time as an "ignorant MP". You seem to think of yourself as BETTER than an AVERAGE MP, which hey that is fine and good for you. As for your training and what not good for you. I can speak from experience as to how I felt about being an MP during my years in service (1997-2002) at Fort Campbell, Schofield Barracks, and in Germany. You being stationed in Oahu should know what I speak of as far as Hawaii. Needless to say, I have a significant amount of TRAINING in several different skillsets, but will not brag and try and argue with you about who has the bigger set, etc.... I will however tell you that I gave being an MP my all while I was in, learned a good amount about dealing with people, and the Army was an excellent stepping stone for me. I continue to work my ass off as a patrol officer in one of the most criminal friendly states in the country bordering one of the worst cities in New Jersey.  

For you to talk all this trash about someone you do not know is A. Childish, B. Cowardly, and C. Ignorant. You have actually discredited MP's due to your self inflated ego and uncalled for assault on a fellow VETERAN, as well as my position as a certified police officer.

As for your rant about not recognizing Federal LEO's as LEO's, with all due respect that is the STUPIDEST ARGUMENT I HAVE EVER SEEN ON HERE! You are saying that the FBI, US Marshal's, DEA, ATF, and other federal agencies are the same as MPI? C'mon, man for crying out loud the CID handles all of the SERIOUS crime investigations for the U.S. Army and are recognized as Federal LEO's when on duty.

Anyway, thank you for your service, and I hope you enjoy the nice weather of Oahu. Also if ever in New Jersey feel free to give me a shout and I will gladly lend you a hand with anything you need as a fellow veteran.

Right, federal LE are sworn civilian law enforcement agents, there is no disputing this.  You never see FBI, DSS, DEA, US Marshalls, Secret Service, BATFE, ICE, CBP asking "are we cops too"?

Meff says ...

Let be start by saying that i have No service experience but I do have 14 years as a LEO. The way i see it to compaire the two is like saying what is better a Spare tire or a snow ski. Both can be used to move you from one place to another but its all going to depend on several other factors. Now is an MP a Leo is going to depend on other factors. I could also ask is a Leo a Solider. It all seams like apples to oranges they are both fruits but have nothing else in common.

Having been on both sides now, thats my experience....its apples and oranges.  They are not the same, one is military, the other isnt. One is a civilian, the other isnt.  My experiences have been as a Soldier on the battlefield, pure and simple. And when we were not deployed, we were training for deployments. Gunnery....shoothouses...ranges....land navigation...ruck marches....detainee operations....PSD operations......etc etc etc.

However, it appears some guys who have been MPs have had different experiences and have been more of a garrison type. Thats fine. Whatever their experiences are. I personally am glad to not have had to do that in a military setting though, the politics and ego of the military is nothing i would want to mix LE with. I prefer doing LE as a civilian, and dooing the hooah as a Soldier.

Wow...

I'm disapointed.  You know what, let's forget certs, MP, civilian LE.  You know what we do...we serve?  Wether military and not even necessarily as an MP, or police, or even a fire fighter.  We serve, we've all taken an oath of some type or another to serve some American or American interest, by what ever policies govern our mode of service.  If you are a fire fighter, EMT or even a doctor you work to save lives, to serve others, putting them before yourself.

Whatever you do service and sacrifice is and should be the ultimate goal.  And if there is any one of us that can't do that, we made a mistake in CHOOSING our career path...you hear me?

I think we're forgeting that, and when we go off into the night where ever we may be, due to professional symantics we are less effective for those we swore to serve.  Some people may say protect, but that is for another post heading. 

The basic ingredient amplified by our recent celebration of our Independence Day is that we are all Americans!  Let that be the thing that pulls us together, not where you got POST certified, or were an MP where, or what certs you have or action you've seen.

WE ARE PROUD AMERICANS!!!  Never ever forget that!

God bless

Jackson,

I would treat ANY member of the military with the same courtesy as law enforcement and nurses. Its a courtesy provided for those with a professional desire to help others, not based on being an authority figure.

Do I consider and view military police to be and hold the same standards as civilian police? No. They are not the same for several reasons (in my mind).

• The military limits the amount of officer discretion.


• They also enforce laws which are mainly black and white issues with black and white resolve (for the most part). Where as civilian police deal with mostly gray issues with vast situational differences, legal liabilities, loop holes and officer discretion.


• Military police are not held to the same standards as civilian police upon entry into the career field, are not as heavily screened, and many tend to have questionable behavior off/on duty (please don't confuse this statement for opinion- yes I was SF/SP, and no, I'm not hating on current/former military police).


• Military police also deal with a jurisdiction of DoD personel, who are screened (with acception to dependants, who are also held to military standards) - with exception to deployed operations where they are in the same dangers as any other military member.

PSD_TEAM_LEADER says ...

Excellent point.....ALL military members get the same respect from me, they enforce policy abroad, from the infantry trooper to the artilleryman to the mp to the medic...all get the same respect because will will face the enemies of the USA.

No one MOS gets more respect from me than all the hundreds of others.

DONT FORGET  NURSES (Civilian)!

PSD_TEAM_LEADER says ...

Soldiers are Soldiers...no matter the mos

I have to disagree with you there. I'm not going to give any examples of bad conduct (don't want to air dirty laundry to discredit professionalism). However, because many career fields are small, little trouble gets magnified and is quite embarassing and not tolerated. I'm not saying other MOS' don't get into any trouble, but not nearly the trouble military police get in. I had 2 MOS (actually AFSC's), and what a world of difference the conduct was.

DO you consider and view Military Police to be and hold the same standards as civilian police?

Question is not phrases properly for a reasonable and balanced assessment...

DO YOU?  WHO IS THE -  YOU???  Do other COPS view MPs as Cops?    And what Cops are assessing one over another... do they even know what MP means? 

There are VERY DIFFERENT Standards from one branch of servie to another!

I know in my day the MPs in Army and Marines use to DROOL over the types of training we were given/attended (example - I attended the local PD Police academy - 16 weeks while active duty) ... and equipment that was issued to us... we drove the Police Package HIGH OUTPUT Ford Sedan V8s... went through DPS EVOC training... had co-Dept training for firearms, handgun and sniper... etc., etc.,

BUT.... ARMY MPs have come a LOOOOOONG Way in the last 2 decades... BUT... it THEN COMES down to HOW the MPunit is run... who/how commanded... is there are REAL COP COMMANDER or at LEASE A Commanding Officer who is a leader and allows the Professionals to do their thing!! 

Or sadly, MP units are run by PAPERPUSHERS and PEOPLE who HAVE NO IDEA who and what we are... the blood we bleed is more BLUE than red and white... and that is NOT understood by Back Office Maggots who've not bled on the road and served their time in busting beer joints, c;lubs, dope busts, high speed chases, attempts to knife/shoot you or your partner... etc., etc.,

The point of all this has nothing to do with the law per se... its standards and perceptions from one agency to another

So its comes down to different flavored juice.... apple, Orange...

Of course we had to study particular laws, federal/constitutional, state statutes, local, ethics ...

We did in SAUF Securtity Police too... we were required to know local/municipal/state law

LEO's Fed, State, County, City are all different too... same but different...

But professionalism, tact... adherence to duty/law/ethics is seen different, but should be the same...

I agree w/you Sam30047... I was fortunate our Squadron remained professional... I went through four Commanders... one very hard core type who was Commander of Camp Bullis/Air Base Ground Defense Training Unit... a career cop, and the last two were former pilots... LTC John Sullivan was one of the best even though he wasn't a cop... he knew how to lead...

we had several guys, including me, who went TDA to the local police academy... great stuff!  Great working relations w/city/county and troopers... lots of interoffice training...

There were lots of TDY/TDA/Training opportunities and I went from Gates/Flt line, patrol, Elite Gate, Senior Partrol to NCOIC of Resource Protection... rising career... LOL... then I left for career in civilian LEO...

Not sure what its been like for them the last 20 years ... they've had a major reconfiguration along with base expansion...

Not the same / Not held to the same standards

Very basic stuff. However, military ranks up there with fellow LE and nurses when it comes to intereaction and respect for profession.