PoliceLink

As I stated before Military Police are not law enforcement officers, period. They are MILITARY POLICE. Key word MILITARY. I did the job and it was a great foundation for what I do now. An 18 year old kid fresh out of boot is not an LEO. As a municipal police officer in New Jersey, I went through an extensive background investigation, physical, psych, etc, then went to a 26 week academy, followed by four months of field training, before I was on my own. Where I work, there is very little turnover or change. Guys do not leave for other duty stations, or police departments. We are professional police officers and are held to the highest standards. In New Jersey, our hands are tied to an extent by the liberal courts, yet we go out and work our asses. Our benefits, salary, etc are amongst the finest in the country. The job of police officer here is a profession, and a highly respected one at that. You are not a police officer as an MP plain and simple.

MP's have LE authority when they are on duty in their garrison environment. Do they handle calls for service, enforce motor vehicle laws, etc, yes. However the training that you receive to do the job is minimal, and there is no set standard service wide. At Fort Campbell, we worked alot of Gate Duties and did some roving patrols. The PM's office and the post in general were not  LE friendly. In Hawaii, it was an absolute joke. In Germany, well we did what we had to do but had no real authority. Guys stated it best in that MP's do not have to abide by civilian laws or liability and as such do different things than we do. They do not have to worry about NJ State DV laws and mandatory arrest situations, etc. They are not SWORN LAW ENFORCEMENT officers and are not recognized as such.

I know that I might piss alot of people off but this being said, I have all the respect for guys and gals in the service, and extend them courtesy whenever possible. I extend them professional courtesy as I do other LEO's. As was said before, apples to oranges comparison. Both are fruits but completely different.

I forgot to note that b/c MPs deal with unit-level offenses (disorderly ocnduct, petty theft, minor assault and DUI) they rarely, if ever testify at courts martial. They instead testify at ART 15's and base administrative traffic hearings. CID, NCIS & OSI do "real court" and so too do MPIs. MP rarely if ever deal with the 4th, 5th and 6th amendment issues that are bread and butter for civilian cops. I knew more about motor vehicle searches, search warrants and related laws as a state trooper than alot of detectives do. THis is an area that could be improved by going to 1805's only (federal magistrate tickets) vs. base traffic courts and ART 15 only. But hte Army likes to keep contorl over its turf....

This is a "debate" that is not going to be put to rest here...this is a question that will keep popping up, and there will always be those who do put them on par to civilian LE and those who dont.  Whats interesting is you have just as many people in this thread who have never been MPs, served in MP units, and have been military who are saying they are not as you do who have the same background who are saything they are.

Last point, anyone who is currently serving knows full well that the job of Military Police (ESPECIALLY if you are Guard/Reserve) looks NOTHING like the job of a civilian police officer.  What so many civilian officers who have never served dont realize is that an MP is a Soldier first....a rifleman, not on the level of the infantryman but well schooled in tactics, particularly MOUT tactics.  Civilian police officers will not go on 12 mile humps with 60 lbs rhucks on their backs, perform route recon into areas held by al-Qa'ida insurgents, man sniper OP/LPs out in sector, go on dismounted patrols through the Haifa Street section of Baghdad, or perform high risk PSD operations through Kabul or Kandahar...etc etc.

Military Police are specially trained Soldiers who perform a variety of missions for the Army.  Civilian style law enforcement is literally 1 (!!!!) of about 6 different specializations of Military Police.  They are the most modular mos in the Army right now next to SOF units.  That is expressly the reason they, next to SOF, are the most highly deployable units in the Army right now.

To even compare them to civilian police officers is way out of line, because they are so much MORE than just that.  Never forget gentleman.....MPs are warfighters....cops are not.

Someone mentioned the 4th, 5th, 6th, and I would add the 8th amendment as well. I think the procedures involved, what we call the Code of Criminal Procedure in Texas LE, is what sets aside the LEO as a true professional in his field.  So much emphasis on case law, which is based off interpretation of constitutional law.  You get VERY little exposure to that in MP OSUT. 

And another guy in this thread hit the nail on the head....MPs deserve no more no less respect than any other Soldier, Sailor, Marine, Airman, or Coastie.  They all, and within each branch, deserve the same high respect for the job they do in being the overseas arm of executive power. For me, the MP gets as much respect as the infantryman, the SOF operator, the clerk, the cook, the parachute rigger, the civil affairs veternary assitant...etc etc.

Protector in Blue you are beating this to death. I am not going to argue with you on who has the bigger set of you know what. I can only relate to you that I did the MP thing when I was on active duty for 5 years. My experience is different than yours. You deal with a different segment of the population than we do. Most of the people you deal with are either military or dependants and the majority respect your position. In addition, if they give you crap well you can go to their chain of command etc.

In our world of civilian police work, I deal with anyone from Joe Princeton University professor, Joe mega millionaire, to Joe scumbag gang member out of Trenton, our deplorable state capital. There are no gates, no restricted entry, etc. We deal with a completely different class of people that by the inherent nature of the restricted access to military installations, generally do have access to bases, post, etc. The training that we receive here in New Jersey is amongst the toughest in the U.S. The academy I attended was featured in Court TV's "The Elite" in 2002. I will never knock any brother officer, but you my friend are trying to call me out. I do not know what the NC State Police go thru for training, but I can tell you that the NJSP are known to have one of the most difficult academies in the country. I do not know what your training involved, but I went thru MP School at Fort McClellan, AL  in 1997 when it was nine weeks long, same training as marines as they attended the same school.

There is a big difference between an 18 year old kid out of high school vs someone who is 22 out of college, or someone older with life experience. What I stated before I stand by. Any Tom, Dick, or Harry can go to MEPS and say I wanna be an MP as long as their ASVAB scores are good enough. I served with some people that HAD NO business being MP's. Our hiring standards are amongst the most difficult in the nation, and on average, for every police officer position in NJ there are 200 applicants. There are many departments here that compensation is at or above $100.000 per year base pay to include where I work. Again the hiring process weeds out alot of the people that have no business being cops. And if during probation an officer cannot hack it, they are let go. This all part of the process here. Most cops I know in other places would kill to for our benefits, pay, etc. I worked my ass off to get hired up here, to include my Army time, and then an Associate's Degree in Criminal Justice, followed by a Bachelor's Degree in Political Science.

Now this being said, there are some damn good soldiers, marines, etc serving as Military Police officers all over that can hack it with the best of them. And there are a good amount that take the training they receive in the service and use to their advantage to become civilian LEO's. Again I am not knocking MP's but merely stating it how it is.

PSD Leader I respect your opinions but Soldiers/Marines etc.... can not be compared to police officers because as you said everyone is a soldier, marine first, Then an MP. You are making a comparison stating that we are lesser. I beg to differ, two completely different career fields, each with their own inherent risks and danger. If you ask any former MP that works as a municipal police officer they will tell you that it is apples and oranges when comparing the two.

Yes, Military Police in any branch I think are real cops.

Police is Police no matter where your jurisdiction is.  Just be carful and we all what to go home, after our shift is done. 

Semper fi,

PC

If they perform "law enforcement" duties(as opposed to just holding an MP MOS) then they deserve to be recognized, at least in the eyes of fellow LEO's, as law enforcement officers.

GOOD POINT UH_OH_5_OH! LIKE THE NAME BY THE WAY!

Being an MP myself I think we are held to standards of civilian LEO's if not higher... we have our own way of being sworn in and though the actual swearing in is a bit different we all have an oath to serve and protect as well as a special bond with not only our other brothers in arms but all civilian and federal LE as well.. We do the same exact job as civilian LEO's do and then deploy on top of that, not to mention the all the other security aspects our single career field employs.. all semantics aside we are all the same people and do the same job, we should all be held to the same standard

I have been in the Marine Corps for the past eleven years and I have a very mixed oppinion on MP's.  They do respond to calls just like civilian LEO's, give them credit.  On the other hand, they do not routinely patrol base housing. Crime happens on base, and they respond if called but they are not proactive as far as base housing is concerned, only reactive. The main mission of Garrison MP's is traffic and gate security.  The only time I ever see a patrol car is if it is shooting radar or has someone pulled over.  MP's are almost identical to their civilian conterpart "the Highway Patrol".  That is all they seem interested in doing.  As for a good deal of LEOs, MP's get power hungry and do things that are questionable as far as civil rights are concerned, "but they really do not have to abide by those standards on base, it is a federal installation".  I also have the impression that MPs do not consider themselves Marines in certain respects, it is them and then the rest of us, there is no brotherly love, they will sooner ruin your career.  Now I have had a successful career and have never had any derogatory reports against me. But Being a SNCO and witnessing these things, I do not think Highly of MPs.  Giving a 19 year old a badge and a gun is a very bad idea. "Do not confuse your rank with my authority" is their catch phrase.  They arrested one of my NCO's whom I sent to check up on my Marines that had been pulled over.  That NCO was following orders,  He informed them that he was one of their NCO's and he had been sent to find out what was going on. he was on the telephone with me and they ordered him to hang up the phone... I told him to stay on the line, they then slammed him on the ground and cuffed and stuffed him.  We had to go retrieve him from the PM's office. I heard all of this over the phone mind you. Of course there were no charges brought against this Marine NCO who was just doing what he was told. We have to stay very vigiliant to ensure that our guys recieve fair treatment when dealing with MP's.

I for one do not think Mp's are held to the same standard as civilian LE. Having been on both sides of it and currently working with Airforce SP in Iraq I see a major difference.  For the most part the MP's are becoming field MP's and not garrison ( there are exceptions).  They do not handle the same type of calls as civilian LE anymore.  Back years ago they regularly patrolled the bases and performed regular LE duties.  Post 911 It seems that the roll has shifted into DOD police handeling the police runs on base.  The military police are busy in the field training for war and are going more towards infantry.  There are a significant amount of MP's that were serious criminals in the past.  I know this because I work with them and talk to them about it.  Most of the civilian LE would not hire someone with a background like this and this is why I say the standard is different.  There is no doubt in my mind that these guys have the hearts of lions and deserve the very best, but I feel there is a difference.

sigh!  here we go again!

Hello to every one once again, but from what I can gather from all of the post, apparently the MP (Garrison) job as a Marine, Soldier, and Air Men, are three totaly different ball games. (As a Marine MP) they do every thing and I mean every thing LE centered. I mean they are marriage counselors at one call, search and rescue at the next, game warden at this call, high way patrolman at this one, gate sentry on these days, I mean it goes on and on. Like I said before, I dont know what the back ground requirements are for Soldiers and Air Men are, but you WILL NOT find criminal back grounds now a days on a Marine MP. Now as far as not patroling housing, (I am speaking from Quantico's MP duties and Camp Lejeune) they patrol housing on a regular basis. They have patrol units specificaly designated to certain housing areas on every shift. Just because you dont see an MP car riding around, doesnt mean they are not there. Dont get me wrong, they do ride through on occasions, mostly at night, but some times they do under cover surveilence and now that the summer season is here, bike patrols are hot and heavy now. I mean we get phone calls from people in housing complaining that the MP's are showing too  much force presence, so their kids feel like they are being targeted. (Give me a break) Now as far as some MP's getting badge heavy and going a little too far, I agree with you on that. What PD out there has not had that to happen with one of their officers? (Just take a look at the new OK Highway patrol video that pulled over the ambulance). I dont know the circimstances with the Marine that got slammed for checking on his Marine at a traffic stop, but THE NUMBER ONE RULE that you DO NOT DO is pull up on a traffic stop trying to figure what is going on with some one that you know. LE officers have no idea who you are, what you want, or what you may try to do to interfere with their duties. Its a safety concern. The one time you let up and let some one just walk up to your traffic stop, will be the time you get hurt. If you dont think it will happen or has happended to an MP or an civilian LE, your wrong because it has. I think that if they arrested him, I am sure it was for a good reason and not obeying their orders. Unfortunately, if they are there because some one from their command told them to go check, those MP's supercede any command representative at that scene. Try pulling up to a traffic stop with a civilian PD off the base, trying to find out what is going on with some that you know and see what happens and how they treat you! Trust me, if their command needs to get involved or notified, the MP's will take care of that. As far as the saying "Dont confuse your rank with my authority" I hate to say it, but it is very true. Thats a hard and not very professional way of saying it, but its true. Once again, I am talking about an MP from the Garrison duties, not as an field MP. Just to throw this in the air, I asked Chris Cosgriff who is the founder of POLICELINK and ODMP.ORG (Officer Down Memorial Page) and I asked him if an MP was killed in the line of duty, would they be put on the ODMP.ORG. He said not in a combat zone, but that they had to meet certain requirements, and if they were performing law enforcement duties (Garrison Work), then yes they would!

Well I figured I would weigh in as well. I have had the oppurtunity to train with both my civilian and military brothers and sisters. I would say yes MPs are the same as civilian LEOs, as MPs we do enforce military regulations but we also must be able to enforce both state and federal law as well. We do this and at the same time have to maintain our proficiency on the battlefield as well. Having served as a military policeman for 15 years, I have responded to everything from a cat in the tree to homicide, the frequency on installations may not be as intense as a major metropolitan police department. But I am on my 4th tour in foreign lands (iraq and afghanistan) and have found myself working with Local National Police officers and International Police Liason Officers, (some who have paid the ultimate price along with MPs).

In all my workings with these civilian LEOs from all over the US, they have always treated me as an equal and a brother and for that I am grateful. I have learned a lot from these brave men and women who have given up the relative safety and security of a stable life in America to come to Iraq and Afghanistan to train the respective countries National Police. You guys are true American Heros. Military Police (reguardless of branch) and Civilian LEOs are the same and should be held to the same standard, after all we are sworn to protect and serve the peoples of our respective communities. HAPPY 4th of July to all.

(Sorry if I rambled a bit......too much coffee.)

Let me go ahead and put an end to this discussion, however, a good one at that.  You will note in this post that I may sound boisterous at times, that is because I have pride in what I do.  Let me first start off by saying that I stumbled upon this forum on accident.  And please note, that everything you read in my post is true with some opinions.  If you find anything untrue, please let me know and I will pubicly apologize to everyone that has posted a comment.  Keep in mind I will "speak freely".  As an enlisted Sergeant and Military Police Investigator for the U.S. Army(credentialed, by the United States Government), notice UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.  I am not your average "MP" who shows his fake badge at a bar.  I have numerous certifications, both civilian and military.  MP's are not credentialed due to their combat service.  Military Police Investigators are however under United States Code ,Title 5.  By saying that  Military Police are not LEO's or are not held to the same standards is just ignorance.  I believe most of the arguments that are posted are sincerely ,"opinion", which is fine, I have two combat deployments to Iraq, which give you the entitlement of your opinions,  but back on track and to complete my post of this absurd argument.  I have used my credentials more than most, "off post" to conduct investigations.  I have also taken numerous cases away from civil authorities.  Civilian Police Officers please take no offense to this posting.  Most MP's have little training in Law Enforement unless you have a special skill identifier such as MPI, K9, Traffic Accident Investigator, etc.  I'll be the first to admit that most MP's that patrol army bases are ignorant, and most dont even care because they dont take their job seriously.  It will always be this way due to the fact of concentration on combat deployments.  MP's have about twenty different "jobs" in the military, the most by far.  So, by ending this post I will say that in actuality, If you think that Military Police are not LEO's, then you are saying, all Federal Government Police are not LEO's.  Making sense now?