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When the issue of PTSD in the Military comes up, the events that cause the onset are clear.  There is no mistaking that the experiences awaiting an individual during the war, will be the percipitating event, and the servicemember returns with some degree of PTSD.

When it comes to Civil Service (Police, Fire & EMS); it can be a little trickier.  During a 20 or 30 year career, an Officer may not experience a single percipitating event, but instead have countless other experiences that build on each other.  There is no battle to take an insurgent stronghold; but there is that vehicle crash with multiple fatalities... there is not an IED exploding by the side of the road; but there is that one on one battle with a violent subject attempting to evade arrest.... or the PCP addict who is out of his mind.... or the jump-and-run from a stolen car chase that turns into a violent situation.... the scenarios are endless.

The point is that those in Civil Service will have (over the length of their careers) multiple events that build on each other and then cause the onset of some degree of PTSD.  I dare say that an Officer with more than 5 years on the job, will have had enough experiences to cause a cumulative effect and thereby engender some degree of PTSD.

What are your thoughts on this? 

I agree with you that it is cumulative, even with the military. The main issue with PTSD is did someone experience an event they truly thought they were going to die. That pretty much sums it up for police. Like you said accidents, foot pursuits, the fight with the drugged up guy that is getting the better of you and your radio broke about two minutes ago, not sure if anyone is coming to help. Your death is not the only thing, watching another officer killed in the line of duty, pulling up to an accident with children that were killed. If you have ever set thru an autopsey of a 3 and 5 year old I can promise you that will stay in the back of your head for at least 12 years.

I recommend all officers read On Killing, On Combat by LTC (R) Dave Grossman; he has a lot of insight on officers dealing with these stressors.

TCamd says ...

Bulldog136 says ...

The main issue with PTSD is did someone experience an event they truly thought they were going to die.

Im going to disagree with this portion of what you are saying, i would attribute this more to adrenaline although it does play a part in PTSD i would say that a main contributor to PTSD is trama, whitch you did go on to speak about studies have shown that seeing the aftermath of tramatic events and/or observing the events as they happen are main contributors in PTSD. Just to clarify im not saying that is not a contributor to PTSD because i know that it is i just know through personal experience not only observing things myself but also helping my fellow Military Police Officers move past things.

Bulldog, anyone can suffer PTSD...not just vets being shot at. Say you're friends with all the soldiers on the base and you're the communications officer....say you hear them on the radio and they're asking for support...you do everything you can on your end for them but it just isn't enough....you see your friends you ate lunch with just prior to the incident come back on a stretcher with blood comming from them, missing a limb and screaming out in pain.

You think he/she wont have PTSD? It effects many more people than we realize...the thing is to keep a sharp lookout on your buddies for signs and to talk about it.

My throat's getting all choked up just typing this...but I had to talk with someone as well...he was another comrade that went through the same incident.

I said what I needed to say, he told me what I needed to hear and I left it over there (for the most part).

You're right, but I guess it is different "stages" for a lack of better words, I'm just going of what the psychologist and brain injury doctors are telling me. They said the "highest" level I guess instead of "main" is when someone truly fears for their life, this can be something as simple as a car wreck where the car almost went over a bridge into water. 

Regardless of  the cause anyone suffering from PTSD should seek treatment and have the support of their unit/department.

Hi guys and gals, I suffer from PTSD and have been treated for awhile. Any help I can provide I will be happy to assist. Unfortunately I am going in the hospital on 5/5 so I won't be on for a period during recovery. Stay safe everyone

Keith

I think it could happen. Just think about the officers that have it thrown at them from day one. you can see a lot in a short time.

I appreciate being invited to join this group - I'm getting ready to do battle to get that badge. Federal Bureau of Prisons has no badges, except the DIrector and that's courtesy of the DOJ AG.  A badge could very easily become a lethal weapon in an inmate housing unit.  They are able to find enough items to convert to weapons without our staff wearing one. No one is sworn - we just swear a lot. The only thing that differentiates Prison staff is, they get hazardous duty pay and, if they put in 3 years at a joint, they keep that differential until retirement BUT, they have a mandatory retirement age of 57. The Feds switched to SS from Civil Service Retirement System but we had the option - I kept CSRS but also chose to pay into Medicare and to invest in the Thrift Savings Plan, which I took out when I retired. Many of my friends switched to SS and invested all their $$ in the high-tech stocks in the Thrift Savings Plan.  PS - they're still working to recover that lost $$. 

I was in the Central Inmate Monitoring Section (CIMS or IMS) and was Chief for a while until I got upgraded. The entire caseload in IMS is Security Threat Groups. The only inmates not a STG were the Federally Protected Witnesses and Pending Witnesses. My specific daily task, for our Director, was keeping tabs of the # of and which STG's were in each of our institutions: Asian Tongs, Russian OC, MS-13, Crips, Bloods, Mexican Mafia, LNF (La Nuestra Familia), AB's, DC Crews (DC doesn't have gangs). Monitored the 50% of our inmates who were from NY, PA, DC, and FL - the I-95 corridor. Monitored our "greying" population because of the Federal Sentence Reform Act of 1984 which eliminated Parole for all inmates arrested, charged, convicted after the SRA went into effect.. all they got was SGT (Statutory Good Time, and I frequenly revoked it when I wrote up a shot). That meant someone sentenced to 40 years at age 60 was going to die incarcerated. This also meant new housing unitts for the greying population to accomodate wheelchairs and walkers and housing away from the predatory population. 

Taught an Agency class on STG's and Population Mgt at our seimannual conference in Clearwater, FL with hotel right on the Gulf of MX - a rough week.  Taught the same, as well as population management, at a joint conference with EKU.

I was always on call. Was solely responsible for moving 700 DC inmates to DC DOC; Returned all FL State inmates to FL - we had no Interstae Compact with them. Returned many State inmates to their states... their sentences were strictly State offenses. 

Became Acting PIO when the Mariel Cubans took over USP Atlanta and FCI Oakdale taking staff and inmates hostage at OAK; burned the institution totally to the ground. Burned 50% of ATL to the ground.  Detailed as PIO again when the Mariels took hostages at Talladega.

Our Director, Michael Quinlan had his trial by fire with the first Marielito uprisings, and he wanted facts, figures, and projections. And I provided them, even if if meant working all night.  

Because we had so many DC inmates for a long time, I still get nevrous that someone might remember my name when I'm in DC for anything. They've got very short fuses and are always ready to fight and I easily issued 10-20 sanctions to them daily.

And yet... if they asked me to come back tomorrow, I would do it. I loved the daily adrenalin rush. My skin got thick from being called so many known names and some quite unique to DC.

When it comes to PTSD, there are some things to consider.  Anyone who's been in a combat or life-threatening situation and seen others in the same type of situations know that PTSD absolutely exists.  The question is, how come it doesn't to everyone?  Well, consider a few things. 

1.  The ability to remember anything is directly connected to the degree of emotion experienced during the event (think "association" or associating one thing with another)

- consider that you will remember the details of an enjoyable movie before you will a boring class.

- think about how certain smells might remind you of a great barbeque you had as a child or how another smell, sight, or sound may remind you of some unpleasurable event (e.g., association)

- this fact is one of the key factors in an effective interview or interrogation as a persons verbal, non-verbal, and paralinguistic behavior will more highly reflect what a person is feeling depending on the significance of a given event as perceieved by the interviewee

--NOW CONSIDER...

2.  There are people in countries (specifically Israel and Palestine) where bombings are an everyday occurence and have been for generations and these people do not have problems with PTSD.  So, why?

- because this is normal to them--they are prepared for it everyday and they know from the time they are little kids that bombings and killings may be a strong possibility and are often regular occurences in their lives

In dealing with PTSD, it is important to bear both of these factors and their underlying precepts in order to best prevent it from happening to you.  Be aware of what you're associating mentally with your emotions at work--at least to the best of your ability as the nature of the job may prevent you from effectively doing this.  But more importantly, you must prepare yourself for the possibility of dealing with specific situations.  This means that Officers and Special Agents as well as Soldiers, Airmen, and Marines in ground combat must prepare themselves for the possibility of having to tactically neutralize threaths posed by people or citizens they would have never suspected.  You must run through your mind the possibilities of what could happen without obsessing about it.  

Also, for anyone who hasn't done this, I would also consider obtaining a copy of and listening to a seminar by a man named Lt Dave Col Grossman titled: "The Bullet Proof Mind".  This will really open your eyes and could save your life after you're out of danger.  In fact, check out this link:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6pPey1q-WU

Good information raz, and thanks for sharring wagon...

shockusmc87 says ...

Dont be confused....not everyone gets PTSD, regardless of the situation, it depends on the person

I dissagree....some people just hide it better than others. I never knew my own father suffered from PTSD until I asked him for an interview for a school paper on his experiences in Vietnam.

I may not be any doctor...but I think that there are a LOT more casses than what is being diagnossed...I mean I think about 90% of anyone involved (directly or indirectly) from a serious incident suffer from some type of PTSD. I also think that you can live long, full, healthy lives with it as long as you know you have it and how to handle it...do I think everyone with PTSD is going to be suicidal? No...do I think everyone with PTSD is going to "snap", or "fly off the handle"? No...now THAT, my friend, depends on the person. We all take our experiences differently...

FYI, that "communications officer" anology I posted was not my story....I just used it as an example to state that PTSD affects more than we realize.