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Double Standard?

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Fear_max50

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Posted about 7 years ago

 

Why is that when a Police Officer use Deadly Force in a correct manner, he/she is the bad guy. But, when a "good summaritan" shoots and kills a bad guy, they are praised as a hero without question (Don't get me wrong, they should be praised).

Example: In a South Florida City, not to far from where I work, a Subway Restaurant was robbed at gun point by two less then human scumbags. During the course of this robbery a 71 year old ex-Marine, wrestles with the two bad guys, then shots and kills one with a round to the reduced target area (Head) and wounds the other bad guy causing him to flee. GUYS, THAT IS FREAKING OUTSTANDING. The ex-Marine is praised, as he should be.

A couple of weeks ago there were two police involved shootings where the bad guys got smoked. In one situation the bad guy ambushed several deputies by SHOOTING at them. Well, this bad guy was killed during the gun battle. This caused the neighborhood around the area, where this piece of shit lived, exploded. Rocks, bottles, fists and words went flying and they had to send cops from all over to the area. Then the family wants to get on TV and demand justice because there family member was a good boy and never did anything wrong (meanwhile his criminal record included guess what? crimes and he was wanted for murder)

I could go with examples and am sure that some of you guys out there know better then I do. It just seems to me that this seems to be a pretty popualr trend know. How do you fix these problems or can it ever be fixed.

Photo_user_blank_big

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Stuff like this makes me think I should just join the Air Force and go career.

The problem is that everyone wants to be a hero, but cops make great scapegoats. That and you can sue them for a lot because the government picks up the tab.

Shedevil2_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

icablue , you're absolutely right and i feel your frustration . all too many times we are the ones waking each day putting on the uniform , putting on the gear and taking more training than anyone can ever imagine , and risking our very breath to do this oft times thankless jobs . i'm glad that we have a brotherhood that we can share that can come up after the citizens crap on you and say " brother i would have done the same thing , i'm here if you need me " i think that the general populous think that we should just shoot to wound not kill , i've heard that so many times that i could puke . it does seem that if you are joe blow citizen you are a hero , but if you are an officer...." crucify him ". my qualification courses all say double tap center mass and until i die that won't change ... the bad guys will never win with me .


...don't play with me , i'll keep you way up after your bedtime.....

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

I'm sure it was because the cops were white and the turd was *insert ethnicity here*. It always has to be racial.

Img_3413_sq90_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

We have that happen here all the time too. People are always asking me couldn't the cop have shot him/ her in the arm? what harm can a teenager do? They are always second guessing the cop. I feel the media adds to the hype. I have seen where the press goes out looking for people to criticize the cops and if they can't find any you don't hear the story until someone comes out against the Police. The media it seems is not happy unless they create controversy and blaming the Police!.

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

I've never met an officer who was trained to "shoot to wound". We're trained to neutralize the threat.

A teenager will kill you just as quick as anyone else.

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

a question for the cops in here? do you like pursuits , and using stop sticks or shooting out tires, and calls for help that would require you to use force, and saving lifes, if your swat do you like explosive entrys, throwing flash bangs,and training for all kinds of different scenarios?

Img_3413_sq90_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

GTS, I explain that to them all the time. I explain they are trained to shoot center mas. In addition it is not as easy to shoot in the an extremity and that they need to shoot until the threat is gone. I explain the case back in the 80's where the FBI got in a shootout with two bak robbers. FBI Agents were killed and even though the scum were also shot numerous times they continued shooting and I believe one of the Agents was killed after the suspects were shot multiple times.

I then remind them of a 12 yr old girl who stabbed another girl to death.

They are so clueless...they almost always say "but on this show..." I have to remind them this is real life and not tv. What gets me the most these same people who ask those questions then asks why an officer doesn't shoot and say "I would have!" I again have to explain their training. I bite back from saying and that's why it's a good thing you aren't a police officer!

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Odin- Do I "like" it? Not particularly. Am I prepared to do it? Absolutely.

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Cops- Before passing judgement, people need to walk a mile in our shoes.

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

are you being honest, you dont get any type of excitement from a chase.

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Of course...it's a thrill like no other. I would prefer to not do it, if I had the choice. DANGEROUS!

Img_3413_sq90_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

GTS, you are so right, Ill have to try that one on them but I have a feeling that won't work with most. Stay safe and thank you for keeping your community safe. I for one appreciate you for what you do.

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Thank you for your support!

603027000639_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

even in my training,its shoot center mass until the threat is nuetrulized. I could be walking around at my work, and all of a sudden, heres joe blow citizen with a baseball bat 40ft away from me. He's cussing, swearing up and down that he is going to turn my mellon into a home run hit. Naturally, I will go on the defensive, put my hand on my weapon to make it ready to draw down and shoot if necessary.
But he walka away laugfhing, I cant just pop a cap in his ass like I'd like to for being stupid. But say he charges me....sorry, to me its game on and now he is a viable threat to me and others...pop off center mass until he drops is what I'll be doing.
But getting back on topic here, yeah I see that shit all the time in the media. Some bystander becomes a hero because he/she stopped a robbery. Stupid ass in my opinion, because not only do they risk their lives for a scumbag, they also need to realize whatever is being robbed can be replaced. You get off duty officer John Doe, he interviens neutrelizing the threat, and he is slammed hard by the media and so called "witnesses" that say he used too much force and like the original poster said, that persons family member will go on tv defending poor little Johny saying "he never does this, he was such a good kid, I demand justice"...BULLSHIT STUFF.
My two cents worth

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

You're half right. Center mass is not always a guaranteed fight stopper. More and more turds have access and are using body armor. On top of that, keep in mind that a direct hit to the heart will also not immediately drop someone...there have been studies that show a human being will still possess 15 seconds worth of oxygen in the remaining blood flow to continue to fight for those remaining seconds. Alot of damage can be done in that time.

Two shots cener mass. Threat neutralized? If not, go for the head. The only GUARANTEED one shot stop, is a hit to the cerebral cortex. Can't hit the head? Start hitting the pelvic area. They can't get to you if they can't stand up...take out their mobility.

Don't expend all your ammo shooting at an area that may be protected, and will not always stop the threat.

Shedevil2_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

got you guys , of course the head shot is the next recourse . maybe that's why my license plate used to read ... I RIGHT I . had to let it go for a while resorted to MYCUDRM . but getting back to the discussion , people are going to always second guess us about shoot to kill . i did'nt hire on to play mommy for no @$$**** out there !


...don't play with me , i'll keep you way up after your bedtime.....

1979_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

It's TV mentality. Cops should shoot to wound. Stupid remarks like that make the job harder. Very few of us will ever use our firearm, some may not even take it out of the holster I have heard but in my dept. that was done weekly. It is part of the job that you never want it to happen but must be ready to do it and be right when you do,. As for the "thrill of the chase", damn right it is there. Anytime you do something dangerous that might result in the loss of life or serious danger you get an adrenaline high. To deny it would be dishonest. By the same token like GTS said, you don't hope for it, just be prepared so that you are not hurt and neither are innocents and even the bad guys if at all possible.

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Head isn't that easy to hit. It's small and mobile.

Shedevil2_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

not saying that it's easy . had a course that did have us to make sure he was down , so i automatically took the head shot until they told me " listen Val forget that right between the eyes shit ". i just told him i know what to do to stop the threat ... end of story .... nothing else was said .


...don't play with me , i'll keep you way up after your bedtime.....

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Of course...how can you argue with that?

Shedevil2_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

i.e that's what I RIGHT I means . so i got a little sarcastic and got the tag MYCUDRM ( see you in my dream )


...don't play with me , i'll keep you way up after your bedtime.....

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

I get it..."Right between the eyes".

I'm a little slow on the uptake today. Very clever.

9-11-logo_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Training a cop to try to wing a bad guy would be training a cop to be shot.

It's a matter of biology. In a critical incident, where you or someone else is in danger of death or grave injury, your heart gets racing. Above a certain pulse rate, your body starts pouring out stress chemicals that equip you to fight, flee, or freeze. Blood rushes to your gross motor muscles so you can fight or run, AND THAT MAKES YOU LOSE FINE MOTOR CONTROL. If, under those circumstances, you tried shooting a small target ("Why don't they shoot the gun out of his hand?") you'd have a harder-than-usual time of doing it.

And what would the bad guy be doing, while you were trying to shoot the gun out of his hand? He'd be trying to kill you.

Here is the proof that cops don't shoot to kill: if you do shoot a guy, just about the next thing you do is call for an ambulance. If a bad guy shoots a cop, the next thing he does is come over and pumps a few more into the cop.

THAT'S shooting to kill.

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

That's the physiology of combat.

9-11-logo_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Yup.

A good book on this is Bruce Siddle's "Sharpening the Warrior's Edge".

When I am made Queen of the World, I will make it required reading for all juries hearing cases involving cops.

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

i would settle for a jury of my peers.

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

they should bring in cops from other departments to sit in on police trials

1979_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

I fire MASTER in NRA Police Combat and there is no way I would try to simply shoot to disable. Center mass baby and fire to stop the threat, period. If you EVER said "I tried to shot to disable or wing him" the the prosecutor will jump all over you asking why you used deadly force when you did not think it was required and that you could wing him! You never shoot to wing, injure, disable or kill, you always shoot to stop the threat. If the suspect dies, and that is the preferred outcome, all the better.

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Chappy, another good one is "On Combat" by Lt. Col. David Grossman. It's all about the psychology and physiology of armed conflict. I think it is required reading at some military academies in this country.

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