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One for Debate!!

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A_max50

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Posted over 5 years ago

 

Here is a little bit of a conversation that I had with a young adult last week, I thought i would share it with everyone and maybe get a general opinion on how i maybe should have handled it, or if i was in the right.


 


20 yom says to me that he had just been pulled over and given a ticket for his break lights not working.  Along with alot of other ranting he says that "if cops would worry about for real sh*t like drugs and killers instead of pulling me over for this stupid crap, like i don't know they don't work,  maybe they could actually do something worth getting paid for."  I listened to about 6 minutes of him talking before he finally looked to me for in put, not real sure what he expected me to say, but this is what i told him.  If you are driving down 254 with no break lights and the car behind you is not paying enoug attention to you to notice you slow down, there is potential for a very serious accident.  Worst case senerio you could be the cause for the death of a human being, possibly even an entire family.  So what exactly does that make YOU??  By not fixing your truck you just took the life/s of innocent persons.  Isn't that what murder is.  Even if it is not called that on the charges, you are still at fault.  You would have to deal with that for the rest of your life.  So, if preventing that is what you are looking for in an officer you should send him a thank you note and move on with your day.  And, I walked away. 


 


It makes me crazy that people aren't willing to look at the entire picture when they so publicly voice their opinion about law enforcement.  WE are the first people they call when they need help, but the last on to thank when it is over.  So anyway, does anyone have an opinion on any better ways that it could have been handled?


YOU are your greatest asset, treat yourself accordingly.

Indian_profraptor_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 5 years ago

 

I think you did a good job in dealing with him. A lot of people see the small thing and not think of the effect that can have on the rest of the population. Again, I say Good Job. And Thank You.

Funny_pictures_56616_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 5 years ago

 

I guess I'm a little toasted after many years of everything a LEO could possibly hear. I generally just explain that............" I am a LEO and am sworn to enforce ALL of the LAWS in the State of NY , which includes the Vehicle & Traffic Laws ......in an attempt to make the roadways safer for all Motorists. Here's your Summons, instruction are on the back. "   


Conversations usually just irritate me............so I tend not to bother.


I care not what others think of what I do,
but I care very much about what I think of what I do !
That is character !
Theodore Roosevelt

A_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

@ DarkBlue:  I completely understand your point of view.  Although I have only been doing this job for about 2 years on the streets it does get extremely difficult to keep almost defending what we do.  @ProfRaptor: Exactly!!  Thank you both for your input!!


YOU are your greatest asset, treat yourself accordingly.

Steve_mcqueen_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

  My favorite retort was "I apologize for the inconvenience ( sir / madam ) but had you not broken the Law right in front of me , I would be chasing down the real bad guys , and if I were not to cite you , the real bad guys would have an appealable situation that I was involved in selective law enforcement. I thank you for your contribution to keeping our streets safe from these people by your minor infraction that justifies my job of protecting all of the Public".


Glory earned on the field of battle , can never be taken away , you take it with you to the grave. Quote by General George Armstrong Custer

Pl6_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

In my opinion you handled that situation very well. Stay safe

Draped_badge_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

You did well...


Me I would have said,,,what and why I do things is none of your business....You don't do my job, I do....and then add in besides its the end of the month I need my quota...Gets em every time...

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

Everyone will try to justify there stupidity somehow. Often people say "don't you have any real crime to deal with" or something along those lines.


I'm sure many will disagree with me, but I only let a suspect rant if I want further information from them. If I do not expect anything other than speeding, I limit my conversation to the bare essentials. I tend to think someone will file a complaint on the officer who talks to much, as opposed to the one who says very little (and surprisingly I don't talk nearly as much in person).


In a situation as you have provided, I think you did the right thing. However, I think you let the guy talk to much - because I personally find it unsafe to stand next to a vehicle for 6 minutes (even if I'm doing the talking). You're response was informative, and not rude.


I give what I call a "canned" response to various phrases driver/suspects/defendants may give me. If you don't have "canned responses", you should get some! For example, if they were to say "don't you have anything better to do?" I may respond with:




  • "No" (simple, to the point, keeps them from ranting)


  • "Many serious crimes are prevented/solved through trafic stops, so bear with me, and we'll both be on our way" (courteous, informative)


  • "We are concerned with all crime, from speeding to murder" (matter of fact, shows concern for the community)

If I'm not giving a written warning/cite, I can clear a stop in about 4 minutes. This allows me time to request their information, inform the driver/suspect of the purpose for the stop, request further explaination from the driver (or observe additional clues), clearly identify/verify the driver and vehicle, decide the outcome of a stop, and safely help a vehicle back into traffic. I don't make a point to be fast,  I make a point to be thorough, and limit unneccissary time spent on the side of the road.

Draped_badge_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

Stupid little traffic stop lead to more arrests than anything..We used to pull what we called one-eyed jacks, one head light, on midnight shift..Keeps ya awake and you find DUIs and drugs all the time...Nevermind all the illegally registered, unisured, unlicensed drivers...

Chris_and_i_in_uniform_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

I think you did good. Some people just don't get it and never will.


NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER GIVE IN, AND ALWAYS FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!PL Mentoring Team Member

Vscndsign_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

Wow..  I'm very proud of you! I'm not a cop but I do know what it's like to not see the bigger picture sometimes, like in this case the 20yom..  and I remember questioning a lot of rules when I was younger but I only wanted to know why there were certain rules.


Like for example : I remember going to Knott's Berry Farm and employee's telling people not to tie their sweatshirts around their waist, and to either wear them or leave them off to the side.  I just wanted to know why and one of them told me that there had been an incident where someone's sweatshirt came lose and ended up on the tracks.. See I never could've thought of that on my own back then.  I think this happens with a lot of young people. 

So seriously I want to thank you for the way you handled that. I know I appreciate it when things I don't understand are explained to me. 


I think he now gets it and I don't think he'll be talking like that when and if he has to deal with being stopped again. 


I also know that you guys will often catch the real big bad guys also thanks to fate and them having a break light out or what not.


Now if it were his license plate light that was out and not brake lights it might be different.

Chris_and_i_in_uniform_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

CAREBEAR911 says ...



Wow..  I'm very proud of you! I'm not a cop but I do know what it's like to not see the bigger picture sometimes, like in this case the 20yom..  and I remember questioning a lot of rules when I was younger but I only wanted to know why there were certain rules.


Like for example : I remember going to Knott's Berry Farm and employee's telling people not to tie their sweatshirts around their waist, and to either wear them or leave them off to the side.  I just wanted to know why and one of them told me that there had been an incident where someone's sweatshirt came lose and ended up on the tracks.. See I never could've thought of that on my own back then.  I think this happens with a lot of young people. 

So seriously I want to thank you for the way you handled that. I know I appreciate it when things I don't understand are explained to me. 


I think he now gets it and I don't think he'll be talking like that when and if he has to deal with being stopped again. 


I also know that you guys will often catch the real big bad guys also thanks to fate and them having a break light out or what not.


Now if it were his license plate light that was out and not brake lights it might be different.



Why do you say that?  License plate light out has gotten me more drunk drivers, suspended drivers,  and drug arrest then any other violation.


NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER GIVE IN, AND ALWAYS FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!PL Mentoring Team Member

Funny_pictures_56616_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

JP503 says ...



CAREBEAR911 says ...



Wow..  I'm very proud of you! I'm not a cop but I do know what it's like to not see the bigger picture sometimes, like in this case the 20yom..  and I remember questioning a lot of rules when I was younger but I only wanted to know why there were certain rules.


Like for example : I remember going to Knott's Berry Farm and employee's telling people not to tie their sweatshirts around their waist, and to either wear them or leave them off to the side.  I just wanted to know why and one of them told me that there had been an incident where someone's sweatshirt came lose and ended up on the tracks.. See I never could've thought of that on my own back then.  I think this happens with a lot of young people. 

So seriously I want to thank you for the way you handled that. I know I appreciate it when things I don't understand are explained to me. 


I think he now gets it and I don't think he'll be talking like that when and if he has to deal with being stopped again. 


I also know that you guys will often catch the real big bad guys also thanks to fate and them having a break light out or what not.


Now if it were his license plate light that was out and not brake lights it might be different.



Why do you say that?  License plate light out has gotten me more drunk drivers, suspended drivers,  and drug arrest then any other violation.



I agree with JP.........A Violation is a violation. How many Felons have been caught due to minor traffic infractions  ? ANS.....Thousands. Would it not be prudent for criminals to black out their license plates ?


My present favorite is tinted windows. A Law that was created to protect LEO's. No Mercy !!


I care not what others think of what I do,
but I care very much about what I think of what I do !
That is character !
Theodore Roosevelt

Chris_and_i_in_uniform_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

DarkBlue says ...



JP503 says ...



CAREBEAR911 says ...



Wow..  I'm very proud of you! I'm not a cop but I do know what it's like to not see the bigger picture sometimes, like in this case the 20yom..  and I remember questioning a lot of rules when I was younger but I only wanted to know why there were certain rules.


Like for example : I remember going to Knott's Berry Farm and employee's telling people not to tie their sweatshirts around their waist, and to either wear them or leave them off to the side.  I just wanted to know why and one of them told me that there had been an incident where someone's sweatshirt came lose and ended up on the tracks.. See I never could've thought of that on my own back then.  I think this happens with a lot of young people. 

So seriously I want to thank you for the way you handled that. I know I appreciate it when things I don't understand are explained to me. 


I think he now gets it and I don't think he'll be talking like that when and if he has to deal with being stopped again. 


I also know that you guys will often catch the real big bad guys also thanks to fate and them having a break light out or what not.


Now if it were his license plate light that was out and not brake lights it might be different.



Why do you say that?  License plate light out has gotten me more drunk drivers, suspended drivers,  and drug arrest then any other violation.



I agree with JP.........A Violation is a violation. How many Felons have been caught due to minor traffic infractions  ? ANS.....Thousands. Would it not be prudent for criminals to black out their license plates ?


My present favorite is tinted windows. A Law that was created to protect LEO's. No Mercy !!



I agree with the tinted windows also, Hard for me to make that stop, since all of our squad cars have limo tint on the windows.


NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER GIVE IN, AND ALWAYS FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!PL Mentoring Team Member

A_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

Wow, thank you all.  Alot of great Input in your responces!!  @CAREBEAR911: Thank you for your kind words.  It is nice to be able to see another point of view on topics like this. I looked at the situation in a very similar was as you.  I think that if time allows and saftey is not an issue, it is benificial to answer questions with actual explinations.  In this situation, I think that he has a little bit different outlook on the potential danger not being a safe driver.  I also agree whole heartedly with JP 503 and DarkBlue in that a violation is a violation.  People who are not criminals will never be able to think like one and therefore will never understand why we have to treat each and every violation with a Firm, Fair, and Consistant approach.  Tag lights go out, that is part of owning a car and not every tag light out means there is something bigger in the vehicle.  However, as they said more DUI arrest's stem from simple traffic stops then for any other reason. That in itself makes it worth making contact with every person possible.


@184retired:  You are absolutely correct, on both accounts!!!  I love using the quota!! Thanks!!


@JP503: Thank you for your input. Like i said earlier, you make a very valid point thank you for sharing.  I wish more people shared our point of view.


@B_Mac:  "Canned Responce"  I love it!!  I do have several of the routine responces, but have never heard it explained like that.  Being a new officer it is always great to get advice from new places.  Thank you.  One of my issues I still fight with is that i still somewhat feel like I have to explain myself, and you are right talking too much can be the worst mistake sometimes.


@ilegworldchamp:  That is AWESOME!!  I love that responce!!


YOU are your greatest asset, treat yourself accordingly.

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

KE20 says ...



@B_Mac:  "Canned Responce"  I love it!!  I do have several of the routine responces, but have never heard it explained like that.  Being a new officer it is always great to get advice from new places.  Thank you.  One of my issues I still fight with is that i still somewhat feel like I have to explain myself, and you are right talking too much can be the worst mistake sometimes.



Unfortuantely I was not gifted with witty responses... I have to think of them ahead of time so I don't end up saying "no you are" to everyone. One of the ones I always ponder is when people apologize to me. I either say nothing or just plain "Don't apologize to me". If you come up with something better, let me know. I'm a new officer myself by the way, I have a military LE background though.


The phrase "canned" as I know it, comes from military EPR's (evaluation of troops). When my guys would have a big accomplishment, I would summarize what they had done and store it in my file "canned". This way, when it came time for me to do their evaluations, I could cut and paste it into each of their reports. Now that I'm an officer, I use the word "canned" to have a predetermined response to some of the more common things people say. Get the connection?

A_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 4 years ago

 

LuckyNo13 says ...



KE20 says ...Well, that is always a difficult one, I think because it is not very often that we come across a person that is will in to be accountable for whatever it is that they have done.  I think that when a person apologizes in the midst of an issue it is because they are looking for the same thing that their parents used to give them instant forgiveness, there for relieving them of the responsibility for their actions.  "I'm sorry" are two of my least favorite words.  What i say on the street is the same as I say everywhere else.  Don't be sorry.  Learn to live in a mannor so that you dont have to to be.  Think about your actions before you act, and you will never have to be.  If you do make a mistake....be proud enough to admit it, and strong enough to correct it.  Too many words, but I am always surprized by the reaction.  Cognative Reflective Communication.  Take what a person is saying, tell it back to them so that they can see it being said, and then let them deal with accountability. :-) Still love the term "canned responce"!!  Stay safe out there.



@B_Mac:  "Canned Responce"  I love it!!  I do have several of the routine responces, but have never heard it explained like that.  Being a new officer it is always great to get advice from new places.  Thank you.  One of my issues I still fight with is that i still somewhat feel like I have to explain myself, and you are right talking too much can be the worst mistake sometimes.



Unfortuantely I was not gifted with witty responses... I have to think of them ahead of time so I don't end up saying "no you are" to everyone. One of the ones I always ponder is when people apologize to me. I either say nothing or just plain "Don't apologize to me". If you come up with something better, let me know. I'm a new officer myself by the way, I have a military LE background though.


The phrase "canned" as I know it, comes from military EPR's (evaluation of troops). When my guys would have a big accomplishment, I would summarize what they had done and store it in my file "canned". This way, when it came time for me to do their evaluations, I could cut and paste it into each of their reports. Now that I'm an officer, I use the word "canned" to have a predetermined response to some of the more common things people say. Get the connection?



YOU are your greatest asset, treat yourself accordingly.