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military credits towards the exam

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Fluffy_max50

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Posted over 7 years ago

 

Nope, sorry. Most agencies only give an extra 10% (called Veteran's Preference Points)...so if somebody else has a 90% and you have a 70% (+10%) they'd still beat you.

Norris-photo_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

No. Veterans preference will only get you a few extra points. The hire process is not that simple anyway. There are a host of other factors that are involved in your placement on a hire list. Military experience may help, but not just because you were in. The experience you gain in the military better prepares you for the hire process and enables you to have a wider breath of knowledge and life experience than a lot of potential candidates. Most agencies have a pass or fail type of written test anyway. You either make the minimum or you don't. Ranking of prospects usually doesn't happen until after the written, physical test, and interview are accomplished. Good luck

Me_in_front_of_destroyed_t-54_iraqi_tank_5-2-03_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

Funny how those that never served seem to downplay the importance of those 5 veterans points that they add to your final passing score & 10pts if your combat wounded. Ex:you & half your class score an 86, they add 5pts, now you're ahead of 30-40 people that never served, cuz now you got a 91 or 96 if combat wounded. So yeah they might "only be a few extra pts, but those that never served don't get em. Not to mention serving puts you ahead of civs when it comes to being taught to be more mature, reponsible for your actions, teamwork oriented, leadership skills, better physical condition, compliance to orders & doing them when told to do so, remain calm under pressure, drug free, etc.

Semper Fi

Fluffy_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

I wouldn't say that the importance of the VPP was downplayed at all by myself, Thanos, so perhaps you're referring to jlo. My dad is active duty military as we speak (ARMY-CID) and a former Sheriff Deputy, so I know the sacrifice that is made and feel that those few extra points should be rewarded at the very least. And while I completely understand that you're in the military (Marines with a capital "M") and you feel strongly about your duties, I also wouldn't say at all that military service puts someone ahead of civilians in those certain areas that you listed. While it may help (some), I don't believe whatsoever that maturity or responsibility can be taught to someone. And, while the military may help with those other areas, there are definitely avenues in the "civilian world" where those areas can be learned/taught/practiced as well. So the military might be helpful in those areas, but I wouldn't say it "puts you ahead." Just my .02.

Me_in_front_of_destroyed_t-54_iraqi_tank_5-2-03_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

Oh yeah, these college kids today are so mature, responsible, in better physical condition & drug free, that it's a waste of time to serve your country cuz it doesn't really matter when it comes to getting a good paying job when you go back to the civilian world. I bet you that an employer is gonna lean more towards hiring a vet that's just as qualified as a non vet specificaly for the qualities that most young people that have never served lack.

You state I don’t believe whatsoever that maturity or responsibility can be taught to someone. That's one of the most important things the service is known for! Many kids join cuz they severely lack those 2 essential traits & since their parents are as undesciplined as they are & don't care to show them by example , they sometimes need a kick in the shorts & have some motivated DIs teach em what mommy & daddy should've.

Serving your country does put you ahead of civs, just my .02. Only those that served would know that though.

Semper Fi

Fluffy_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

LOL, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. As I said, I come from a military background...unfortunate enough to NOT be able to serve because of a medical condition. Do I wish it were the other way around: absolutely (and not for a few extra points towards a job in the future, but because I think that it's important to be able to serve the country that produces the freedoms which I enjoy). And sure, there are tons of college kids that don't have their acts together. Does that mean that all military personnel have their acts together? I would argue not...but then again, what do I know? I haven't served. You say that maturity and responsibility can be taught, I disagree...I say it's just someone jumping through hoops to get something done. Maturity and responsibility are something that come with age and experience. But then again, what do I know? I'm young. Thanks for your service.

Fluffy_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

And by the way Thanos...why is there a branch in the military called the Criminal Investigator Division? Because of all those military personnel who have been taught the intrinsic values of maturity, responsibility, respect, discipline, etc etc, right? Jut checking...once again, I haven't served...wouldn't know.

Me_in_front_of_destroyed_t-54_iraqi_tank_5-2-03_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

Let me give you a few examples of the how you get taught responsibility in the military that no college kid or civ can equal IMO, your a 21 yr old helicopter mechanic in charge of & responsible for the maintenance & care of an Apache gunship worth millions of dollars, they are tasking that 21 yr old with the "responsibilty" of keeping that gunship in perfect flying condition cause if he doesn't take his "responsibilities" seriously & gaffs off doing his job, the lives of the 2 pilots & the crew chief are in deadly danger. Tell me a civilian job sector that a 21yr old does that matches that level of responsibllity. He also has to be "mature" to be able to do his job on a day to day basis for the next 4 yrs & that means no partying till the wee hrs of the mornings when he knows he has to be working on that bird by 0530, no saying, "oh I don't feel like coming in today or I'm too hammered to do maintenance & put that new rotor in today.

Unlike in the civilian world, in the military, you don't have the luxury of calling in sick or taking the day off or gaffing off your duties. People's lives are dependent on you being responsible, reliable & mature enough to do it right all the time, everytime.

You don't need to tell me that there's that 10% that are just total screwups & with or w/o having served, just can't seem to get the bad habits or the hood out of their sysytems. I knew plenty & they pissed me off everytime they did something to shame & dishonor my corps. I can tell you 100% that alcohol always played a part in the vast majority of Marines that I always saw busted down in rank our kicked out, popping positive on Marijuana was another thing some of those idiots did.

Just like LEOs have that 10% that give them a black eye, so do we.

BTW, when you get to the academy, your gonna be jumping through hoops to just get something done as well.

Semper Fi

Kirlian-fingerprints_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

From what I understood military dose not count towards your exam, but it gives you points for the hiring process...


“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent”
– Eleanor Roosevelt

Photo_user_blank_big

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

I am just ignoring the ongoing debate to answer the question at hand:

Coming from the military does give you a small edge over civilian applicants, but the more than anything else it relies on abilities. Your example compares someone who is shown to have a firm grasp of police basics (90%) against yourself, who barely does (70%). Being military will not help you here, since the first person is clearly the better choice. Thanos noted that if you do well relative to everyone else, those points will prove to be very useful.

In short, it will help only as much as you put into the test. The better you do on the exam, the more the points help; if you try to slop your way through it, those points will be meaningless.

Fluffy_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

I won't argue with you that I'll be jumping through hoops in the academy. I know that full well going into it...it's definitely a scenario of them saying "jump" and me asking "how high?" In answer to the civilian job sector (and I won't include peace officers) I have two friends, one 22 and one 24, who have graduated from med school and are starting their residency. One in neurosurgery and the other in anesthesiology; they're both brilliant, and they both daily have lives in their hands. No late nights drinking for them or partying it up or anything like that.

Once again, I understand where you're coming from, and I'm not bad-mouthing the military at all, nor am I badmouthing the people that serve. As I previously stated, I genuinely wish that I could have...but it's not an option, and so here I am in law enforcement. My entire argument was this: just because someone hasn't served doesn't mean that they're not mature or responsible, teamwork oriented, good leaders, in good shape, and not drinking it up or doing drugs. Do the vast majority of young people possess those skills...safe to say, no. I guess that we agree on some points...and on others, I'm more than willing to agree to disagree. :)

Me_in_front_of_destroyed_t-54_iraqi_tank_5-2-03_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

Your 2 med school friends are the exception to the rule. The vast majority of college kids just wanna party all the way through their 4 yrs in college, if they even graduate & hope they at least graduate with a 2.5 GPA. As you yourself stated " Do the vast majority of young people possess those skills…safe to say, no."

Do the vast majority of young people that served or are serving do, safe to say , hell yeah!

I'll leave you with this

To those that served, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

Semper Fi

Fluffy_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

Then I must know quite a few exceptions to the rule. You claim physical fitness, teamwork skills, good leaders, responsible and mature people is what the military produces. I know quite a few people that I went to high school with who are military people (pick a branch, it doesn't matter) who are the perfect example of why NOT to join the service. But then, I guess they're the exception to the rule as well, right? They are told when to wake up, when to get chow, when to go to work, when to exercise, when to go to the john, etc. That's maturity and responsibility? They get out after their two or four years and bash the military (meanwhile, mind you, I'm defending it), say that it was horrible and they hated it and they couldn't wait to get out. Would you argue that those people (and all the people across the nation who get out and do the same thing) were taught maturity and discipline? Absolutely not. Maturity and disciple can be shown by example, but unless someone steps up and internalizes it the value is lost. They will go through the motions, might be able to fake it for a while, but ultimately no lesson is learned. A position of responsibility does not a responsible person make.

I suppose that I am privileged and blessed to be around young people, who aren't military, who actually have their lives together. Friends who were accepted on full-ride scholarships to UCLA, Princeton, and Harvard. Friends who are police officers. Friends who are doctors. And all of these people are young (18-24) and possess no military experience. So I suppose that, what, I'm spending time around the upper echelons of the young society? Those people better themselves, and by bettering themselves they better society...and you protect their freedoms so that they can do so. So what's your beef? Some of them could join the military but chose not to, and some of them can't join the military. But they put their skills and their knowledge to use elsewhere so that, while they aren't on the front lines protecting our country's freedom, they are at least doing something. And this is not a small group of people, but quite a few...I'm not counting on one hand or two. It's unfortunate that many young people have given the rest of us such a bad reputation.

This is exactly what I fought through when I went through backgrounds. My age...I must be too young, too immature, too irresponsible. Out drinking and partying and carousing. None of the above. I must not be physically fit and not take care of myself. Not true. Well then why didn't I join the military...I can't, so I'm doing the next best thing...helping my country from the inside. I know many, many young people who fall into the same category that I do but, because of age, they are looked down upon and told that they don't have their life together. Not true...and military service doesn't change that whatsoever. Military experience does not make or break someone, or give them the upper hand in life...just as no military experience doesn't make or break or give an upper hand.

"For those that have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know." I agree. Does that mean that those people are mature, responsible fighters? Not at all. But they have fought, and some have died, so that we can have this discussion. Now I'm done with the thread...but thanks for your time, and your insight.

**And in response to navydennis, I'll change my original posting (with you in mind Thanos, I'll take out the only). "Nope, sorry. Most agencies give an extra 10% (called Veteran’s Preference Points)...so if somebody else has a 90% and you have a 70% (+10%) they’d still beat you."

Norris-photo_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

Having served in the military for 22 years (now retired), I can tell you that your military experience will prove to be a great advantage to you, but in ways that are not always easily assessed by points. You will get veterans preference points but don't sell the farm and think you are automatically in. Example: my department places people in "bands" when they decide who they will hire. Band A being the highest, then Band B, C, etc... They start filling personnel spots from people in Band A. When A is exhausted they move to Band B and so forth. OK, I had 22 years of military law enforcement, was the top enlisted guy in charge of units with over 200 cops, spent many nights living in a hole and leading squads and fire teams in austere conditions, and had run LE for entire military installations. I was banded B and saw many 22 and 23 year old prospects placed in band A ahead of me. Lesson, don't count your chickens... Good Luck. If you have the will to succeed then you will. Mental toughness will get you where you want to go, not a few extra bonus points.

Dsc030861_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

Wow,this topic has gotten interesting huh. well said jlo.

1. As stated above to answer the question asked: All Veterans Preference is, it will give you 5 to 10 points / % better on your final score in the hiring process. example: say you get a 70% on the written test, 82% on the oral interview and pass physical fit test. you get a score of 76% add 5% for VP w/o disability, 10% w/disability= a final score of 81% to 86%. if some one else got a final score of 90% they would have seniority on getting the job if they pass the background check. but those extra point will greatly help you if you are competing with a person of equal qualifications/score or put you above alot of others as it did for me when I was going against 1000+ candidates testing.

2. I have to agree with Adam on this. I myself have lived the college life, served 6 years in the Military been to Iraq and other deployed locations many times and have gone threw the hiring process with several LE agencies. Serving in the military doesn't automatically make you a mature and responsible person. nor does not serving. only time, will power, and experience will. I will have to say that by the time someone gets out of the military or graduate from College you will have learned to be mature and responsible. I will have to say the college students and young military persons alike both drink and party a lot. but they have two different types of responsibility's, student work on there school work and need to do well to graduate, and military members have to do there job right to successfully do the mission. both require being responsible and mature enough to do what needs to be done. and do as they please on their off time, and have consequences if they if they don't do whats required of them. and in both cases there are good an bad apples. some just skate by to do what they have to, to stay out of the lime lite. and others excel to great heights and get promoted faster or get the better job. in the end its time and experience that makes you learn whats needed to be mature and responsible to exceed in life.

Photo_user_blank_big

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

Not to continue to derail this thread, but I would ask you to please stop making these elitist generalizations. You are relying entirely on stereotypes and assumptions in your arguments and it very offensive. I know you would hate it if people decided that because you are in the military that you are not intelligent or capable enough of attending even a community college. Please tailor your further comments to include only the facts, not misperceptions.

Me_in_front_of_destroyed_t-54_iraqi_tank_5-2-03_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 7 years ago

 

DeputyAdam, you say all your non-military friends are very smart, successful, and have their lives together, etc. Then you state " I know quite a few people that I went to high school with who are military people (pick a branch, it doesn’t matter) who are the perfect example of why NOT to join the service. "They are told when to wake up, when to get chow, when to go to work, when to exercise, when to go to the john, etc. That’s maturity and responsibility? They get out after their two or four years and bash the military (meanwhile, mind you, I’m defending it), say that it was horrible and they hated it and they couldn’t wait to get out."

They were probably shit birds & got written up & disciplined often, never made rank & put 0 effort during their 4yrs in & tried to skate the whole time so they put in crap & came out with crap. That's why they're bad mouthing it. Like the saying goes, you get out of life what you put into it.

1st off the only time your told when to take a crap, eat, etc is in bootcamp, after that, that ceases. Seems like they just had an attitude to following lawful orders from their higher ups & doing their jobs to the best of their abilities.

Semper Fi

I