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Serpa holsters can be deadly

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Me_max50

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Posted over 5 years ago

 

I have found that the Serpa holsters by Blackhawk! can be deadly.


The Serpa is a poorly designed but well marketed holster that has a user to press in with the finger tip as they draw their pistol. Some times the finger ends up right on the trigger pressing inward well before it would be safe to do.


I have also seen seasoned operators unable to draw from a Serpa holster under stress.  Hitting the button seems to be too fine a motor skill for everyone to draw under stress.  I have also seen debris accumulate under the release button and "lock" the holster.


I am to the point of banning them from my classes.


I am curious what experience have others had with them.

Csi_squirrle_max600_1__max50

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Rated +1 | Posted over 5 years ago

 

It's the best holster I've ever used.  When we had the Beretta 96G I used one and loved it.  Never had any of the problems you mentioned.  The holster is secure and lightning fast to draw.  The only compliant I have is they don't yet make one for the Beretta PX4 which is our currently issued duty gun.  The majority of my department had switched to them prior to being issued the PX4.  If/when they make one for my new weapon I will order one.

Da_police_005_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

we had one officer recently get rid of his due to a training class in which the "perp" was able to remove the weapon from his holster. seems like the retaining button is accessible by both parties in a fight. otherwise, i think it's a great holster for someone who is not likely to be in hand to hand, or CQB, situations but wants a higher level of retention.

Ec_max50

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Rated +2 | Posted over 5 years ago

 

Deadly??  I disagree!


I have hundreds of officers all over the world who are wearing the Serpa Level III duty holster... both the light bearing and non-light bearing models.  Also have tactical teams wearing the tac rig version of the same.  Just to be clear...I have no vested interest in this holster but I do have a vested interest in officer safety and am very confident in the performance of this design.  This model has undergone rigorous field tests by departments all over the country. 


The debris lock up you describe is not possible under normal situations.  It would take gross neglect to lead to that much debris build up over time - or a deliberate act of hand packing an unusual amount of wet dirt/sand, forcing it into the openings around the Serpa button. 


The fine motor skills/trigger finger issue is a familiar spin that I've heard from Safariland instructors.  (yes, I sell Safariland too)  I'd like to clarify this for you... The Serpa lock does not require the finger tip to release the lock.  The finger remains straight in a natural draw position and as the weapon is drawn, the straight trigger finger actually lines up to rest in the correct position - ABOVE the trigger.


As with any equipment, officers should have some orientation before putting the holster in service.   If you like, I can arrange for a rep. from Blackhawk to contact you and schedule a training/orientation session at your location.  Please feel welcome to PM me if you are interested.


TOOLS & TOYS: A friendly place for operators to discuss gear & equipment and share product info & resources. Access is restricted to verified LEOS only. http://policelink.monster.com/groups/2038-tools-toys

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

ElizabethC says ...



Deadly??  I disagree!


I have hundreds of officers all over the world who are wearing the Serpa Level III duty holster... both the light bearing and non-light bearing models.  Also have tactical teams wearing the tac rig version of the same.  Just to be clear...I have no vested interest in this holster but I do have a vested interest in officer safety and am very confident in the performance of this design.  This model has undergone rigorous field tests by departments all over the country. 


The debris lock up you describe is not possible under normal situations.  It would take gross neglect to lead to that much debris build up over time - or a deliberate act of hand packing an unusual amount of wet dirt/sand, forcing it into the openings around the Serpa button. 


The fine motor skills/trigger finger issue is a familiar spin that I've heard from Safariland instructors.  (yes, I sell Safariland too)  I'd like to clarify this for you... The Serpa lock does not require the finger tip to release the lock.  The finger remains straight in a natural draw position and as the weapon is drawn, the straight trigger finger actually lines up to rest in the correct position - ABOVE the trigger.


As with any equipment, officers should have some orientation before putting the holster in service.   If you like, I can arrange for a rep. from Blackhawk to contact you and schedule a training/orientation session at your location.  Please feel welcome to PM me if you are interested.



Elizabeth, you are one of my favorites on here  


But I must say that I will be sticking with my Safariland 070, also looks much more professional then that plastic/nylon crap!

Ec_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

officer1983 says ...



ElizabethC says ...



Deadly??  I disagree!


I have hundreds of officers all over the world who are wearing the Serpa Level III duty holster... both the light bearing and non-light bearing models.  Also have tactical teams wearing the tac rig version of the same.  Just to be clear...I have no vested interest in this holster but I do have a vested interest in officer safety and am very confident in the performance of this design.  This model has undergone rigorous field tests by departments all over the country. 


The debris lock up you describe is not possible under normal situations.  It would take gross neglect to lead to that much debris build up over time - or a deliberate act of hand packing an unusual amount of wet dirt/sand, forcing it into the openings around the Serpa button. 


The fine motor skills/trigger finger issue is a familiar spin that I've heard from Safariland instructors.  (yes, I sell Safariland too)  I'd like to clarify this for you... The Serpa lock does not require the finger tip to release the lock.  The finger remains straight in a natural draw position and as the weapon is drawn, the straight trigger finger actually lines up to rest in the correct position - ABOVE the trigger.


As with any equipment, officers should have some orientation before putting the holster in service.   If you like, I can arrange for a rep. from Blackhawk to contact you and schedule a training/orientation session at your location.  Please feel welcome to PM me if you are interested.



Elizabeth, you are one of my favorites on here  


But I must say that I will be sticking with my Safariland 070, also looks much more professional then that plastic/nylon crap!



awww.... Thanks!  ...and I'm sure the 070 will continue to serve you well. 


TOOLS & TOYS: A friendly place for operators to discuss gear & equipment and share product info & resources. Access is restricted to verified LEOS only. http://policelink.monster.com/groups/2038-tools-toys

Jesse_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

Ive used this holster with my G-22 several times. Ive had no problems with it and it is very fast to draw from. But even though it seems very secure and ive been in a fight or two with it on, I still find myself not feeling 100% sure of it like i do with my SS III or 6280.

Jacksonvillecoin2bglow_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

I'll stick with my Safariland.


“There are more good men than evil, and while the latter
cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by
propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men
with their rifles.”


.

Jt_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

I love mine for my glock 22.  Although i have not yet had to draw it out of distress so i dont know how it would act if i was under alot of pressure

Herb_100_max50

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Rated -1 | Posted over 5 years ago

 

I've discussed this holster in other threads and will address the concerns I have again in this thread.


If an officer goes to the snow packed ground and rolls around with a suspect, and snow gets packed in the holster, will that prevent the "button" from releasing the gun from the holster if it is needed?  How about a sandy, rocky area where sand and rocks get lodged in the holster?


Also, I have done many, many demonstrations on how easy it is to get this gun out of the holster  as "Bad Guy".  I use airsoft weapons that fit perfectly in the holster.  So far, I have been 100% successful in disarming the officer (have done this test at least 50 times from all positions - standing in front, rear and side of officer and from the ground).  And yes all holster can be defeated - BUT this is the easiest holster to defeat in my opinion.


Just my 2 cents...........


Training is not an expense, it is an investment
www.MentalAmmo.com

Ec_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

msgmarine says ...



I've discussed this holster in other threads and will address the concerns I have again in this thread.


If an officer goes to the snow packed ground and rolls around with a suspect, and snow gets packed in the holster, will that prevent the "button" from releasing the gun from the holster if it is needed?  How about a sandy, rocky area where sand and rocks get lodged in the holster?


Also, I have done many, many demonstrations on how easy it is to get this gun out of the holster  as "Bad Guy".  I use airsoft weapons that fit perfectly in the holster.  So far, I have been 100% successful in disarming the officer (have done this test at least 50 times from all positions - standing in front, rear and side of officer and from the ground).  And yes all holster can be defeated - BUT this is the easiest holster to defeat in my opinion.


Just my 2 cents...........



I've contacted Blackhawk about your concern before I left last week.  They have not had any reports of a snow packed lock up (or any debris lockup for that matter) but they did send me a list of several departments in snow climates that are using Serpas.  I am still playing catch-up from being out for so many days, but I intend to contact these users over the next week.  Will report back with their comments & experiences.  


TOOLS & TOYS: A friendly place for operators to discuss gear & equipment and share product info & resources. Access is restricted to verified LEOS only. http://policelink.monster.com/groups/2038-tools-toys

Marvin_martian_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted over 5 years ago

 

I used a Safariland 070 for four years and loved it.  However, there was a learning curve associated with it.  I personally think that before ANY holster is carried on duty, enough practice should be employed to assure muscle memory for a safe and proper draw stroke.  It really doesn't take that long.  Before you do anything, unload your pistol and visually and physically check that it is clear.  Start out with 50 repetitions of hand placement to assure proper grip for drawing.  Start from interview stance.  Next, proceed to 50 reps of placement and retention release. NO DRAWING YET! Now we're ready for 50 reps of hand placement, retention release, and beginning of the draw stroke.  Just bring the pistol out of the holster, do not go to low or high ready yet.  OK, now 50 reps through the entire cycle, ending with the gun fully deployed to a low or high ready.  Now you have some muscle memory.  If you skip the initial hand placement for proper grip, you can end up with a bad grip after the draw or even losing the pistol while drawing.  I've seen it, it happens. 


Ok, now that was only 200 repetitions, and really didn't take that long.  Start slow and make it perfect.  Each day before shift for the next week, go through the same process, only using 10 reps of each part of the draw exercise.  Before you go on duty, make sure you load your gun!  The muscle memory you develop with make drawing from that holster feel natural, and making it perfect develops speed.  If you really want to get good with your holster/gun combo, use 20 reps every day the first week, 10 per day the second week, and then set aside a time one day of each week for the rest of your life to run through 10 reps of each section of the exercise. 


Now, anytime you change holsters or pistols, go through the same self-teaching routine.  I have used this for a couple of different guns and holsters, and it really works.


One more piece of advice.  Sit in your patrol car and practice drawing from a sitting position.  Don't do this while on duty, because your pistol needs to be unloaded for these exercises, and you don't want to have an unloaded gun on duty.


Remember, safety first!


Go out today and preach the gospel, and if you must, use words. St. Francis of Assisi

Evil_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

Are we talking about the Serpa duty or concealment holster here?  I like the concealement holster for training days because it is not very concealable.  I have not tried the duty holster.  If I want a button holster I would get the Tactical Designs Labs for my Glock (that is all they make them for right now).  The TDL is a far better holster IMO.


I personally don't like the 070.  I use the rotating hood I forget which SOS designator it had for a while it was OK.  Now I use an SLS.  My reason for the 070 is I was slow out of the holster and was a wee bit diffcult to secure back in.  Where my SLS is drop in and rotate hood.  FYI if snapping only one snap be careful which you snap it is possible to snatch the weapon out if wrong is sna[[ed.


You have the rest of your life to solve the problem, how long your life lasts depends on how well you do it. -Clint Smith

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Cbpunifclassi_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted over 5 years ago

 

Use it, love it. Fine motor skills for depressing the trigger release is a training an muscle memory issue. If they are fumbling with it, chances are they didn't sufficently train with it before strapping it on. Regarding the thumb ending up on the trigger, I find the design for the H&K P200 (USP) placing my finger just above the trigger guard, more on the ambidexterous slide release.


As for junk clogging up the workings, I can see that but have not experienced it.


PESTIS PER BARDUS POPULUS NOS AGO PORRO
(PLAGUED BY MORONS WE PRESS ON)

Csi_squirrle_max600_1__max50

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Rated +2 | Posted over 5 years ago

 

I think ccso8462 hit the nail on the head.  It all comes down to training.  Before we are permitted to use a different holster we must qualify with it.  On range days we shoot about 500 rounds of ammo.  We have to have the holster approved by the range officer and then before we can use the holster on duty we must go though at least one whole range day with it.  during that time we are observed for any problems and if we are not completely competent with the holster we aren't allowed to use it.  When I decided to switch to the serpa holster I bought it several months before I was set to go to the range.  I used it when I went to the range to practice and also did empty gun draw drills at home.  I had no problems transitioning from the thumb break holster to the serpa and never found my finger on the trigger when I didn't want it there. As far as the Safariland holsters I don't like the hood design.  They are too slow and I am not confident that I will be able to manipulate the push down, rotate manuver under extreme stress.  Holster designs are like cars some prefer fords some chevy's.  I think it is good though to bring up concerns with holster design, otherwise, we will never improve them.  As an aside I will not carry a triple retention holster.  They are just too damn slow for me. 


As far as the comments about gun grabs from holsters, the way to prevent that is training.  You must know how your holster works and then go from there.  There has never been a holster made that the bad guy can't defeat so you must make your desisions based on your level of training and ability.  There are only two ways to be absolutely sure the bad guy can't snatch your gun.  One way is to leave it in you trunk, and the other way is to keep his hands away from you pistol.  Anything less goes to how you react when the hand gets near the gun.  I realize that it happens.  We had a veteran officer loose his gun to a mental subject.  She was able to get his gun out of his level two thumb break holser after destracting him.  What she did is try to open her door to let her german shepard out onto the officer.  The officer reached up with his strong hand and slammed the door shut.  This gave her the chance at his gun which she took.  His training kicked in and he was able to control the muzzle while she got one round off.  He then was able to hit the magazine release and she was then able to fire a second round emptying the gun.  He was able to restrain her and when help arrived she was taken into custody with no one being injured.  Gun grabs happen in a blink of an eye so the purpose of this rant is that any holster you can remove your weapon from the bad guy will also able to remove your gun from.  NEVER rely on any holster's retention system to work.  The best you can hope for is that it will slow the process down enough for you to react in a positive way.

Herb_100_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

MMMM - 


 I totally agree with you on the training aspect - HOWEVER - as a dedicated trainer - MOST officers only train once a year - if most agencies allow it.  MOST officers will only train to the minimum standards set by the agency.  I beg and plead for more training to give to our officers - but the bottom line is - Admin needs them elsewhere - - not in the the training room.  I think most all of us talking here practice on our own time and dime.  But the sad reality is MOST officers do the minimum training requirements.


The demonstrations I did in disarming were done with Veteran officers - even a die hard firearms instructor.


It all boils down to: Does the bad guy have more will to take the officers gun; or does the officer have more will to retain that firearm.


The Serpa may be great for those that train with it.  But I think if you just hand it out and say here's your new holster, put it on and go to work -which happens more often, we set those officers up to fail.


The other concern with this holster I have is the retreival of it with the non-dominate hand should your dominate hand be out of the picture.  I train my officers to get the gun out of the holster with both hands - it is very difficult to do with the Serpa.  We as trainers need to prepare our officers for the very worst case scenario.  If it never happens GREAT!  But if it does happen and no one was trained for it - OOppss - I guess.


Again - my 2 cents.........


Training is not an expense, it is an investment
www.MentalAmmo.com

Me_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

ElizabethC says ...



The debris lock up you describe is not possible under normal situations.  It would take gross neglect to lead to that much debris build up over time - or a deliberate act of hand packing an unusual amount of wet dirt/sand, forcing it into the openings around the Serpa button. 


The fine motor skills/trigger finger issue is a familiar spin that I've heard from Safariland instructors.  (yes, I sell Safariland too)  I'd like to clarify this for you... The Serpa lock does not require the finger tip to release the lock.  The finger remains straight in a natural draw position and as the weapon is drawn, the straight trigger finger actually lines up to rest in the correct position - ABOVE the trigger.


 



I don't know what "normal situations" are but it can, and has, happened in my world.  Thank God these things have happened during training and the holsters involved were unceremoniously tossed over the burm.  There was no "gross neglect" or deliberate sabotage just hard training.


Maybe the training we do isn't "normal" but it tests both man and equipment.  When you push yourself and your gear to the limit, sometimes things happen that don't happen when you are punching holes in paper on a square range.


 If you read the instructions that come with your SERPA and follow them to a "T" you will have no problems with any of these deadly problems.   I'm sure it works quite well for most who use them.


Where I see the problems arise is during force-on-force training.  Rolling around in mud, gravel, weeds etc. while to big knuckleheads you thought were your friends enjoy pounding on you with padded bats.   Your gear gets filled with all kinds of crap, miss buttons, you drop guns, you miss safeties and you have AD's.


These things can happen with any design, they have just happened too often with the SERPA design.  Under stress, even disciplined fingers end up on triggers at bad times and people shot themselves.


I have no "spin" I have no connections to any holster maker or gear manufacturer.  I have personal observations and a passion for saving lives of good people. 

Ec_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

wdoarjr says ...



ElizabethC says ...



The debris lock up you describe is not possible under normal situations.  It would take gross neglect to lead to that much debris build up over time - or a deliberate act of hand packing an unusual amount of wet dirt/sand, forcing it into the openings around the Serpa button. 


The fine motor skills/trigger finger issue is a familiar spin that I've heard from Safariland instructors.  (yes, I sell Safariland too)  I'd like to clarify this for you... The Serpa lock does not require the finger tip to release the lock.  The finger remains straight in a natural draw position and as the weapon is drawn, the straight trigger finger actually lines up to rest in the correct position - ABOVE the trigger.


 



I don't know what "normal situations" are but it can, and has, happened in my world.  Thank God these things have happened during training and the holsters involved were unceremoniously tossed over the burm.  There was no "gross neglect" or deliberate sabotage just hard training.


Maybe the training we do isn't "normal" but it tests both man and equipment.  When you push yourself and your gear to the limit, sometimes things happen that don't happen when you are punching holes in paper on a square range.


 If you read the instructions that come with your SERPA and follow them to a "T" you will have no problems with any of these deadly problems.   I'm sure it works quite well for most who use them.


Where I see the problems arise is during force-on-force training.  Rolling around in mud, gravel, weeds etc. while to big knuckleheads you thought were your friends enjoy pounding on you with padded bats.   Your gear gets filled with all kinds of crap, miss buttons, you drop guns, you miss safeties and you have AD's.


These things can happen with any design, they have just happened too often with the SERPA design.  Under stress, even disciplined fingers end up on triggers at bad times and people shot themselves.


I have no "spin" I have no connections to any holster maker or gear manufacturer.  I have personal observations and a passion for saving lives of good people. 



I meant no disrespect, nor did I mean to imply that you had the connection or spin.  I am refering to personal experiences.  One point is evident however... we both share the same passion.  You are describing problems which I have not encountered from 100's of users - and spanning over 18 months now -  so I would like to put you in touch with the LE Product Development Manager at Blackhawk.  He is a retired LEO and I'm sure that he would be very interested in hearing what you have to say.  If there is an unknown issue, I'm sure you would agree that it is in the best interest of every Serpa user to voice your experiences to the one who is capable of fixing it.


TOOLS & TOYS: A friendly place for operators to discuss gear & equipment and share product info & resources. Access is restricted to verified LEOS only. http://policelink.monster.com/groups/2038-tools-toys

Glock_tiger_17_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

My last tour in Iraq before I got out of the military, Myself and the rest of my instructor cadre were givin the thigh rig Serpa holsters for our M9s. We wore them daily as they were much more light weight then our issued safariland6004 series thigh holster set up. Many of our troops through a fit because it was something they didnt have and it "looked cool". Well though our use of them, on the range back stateside they worked very well. I had no problem with the button in timed drills and liked the fact that I could sorta half way place the pistol in and let gravity and the Serpa system do the rest. However comma once we got into country (Kuwait,Iraq) the more sand that got into the locking system the more difficult it was to keep the weapon secure and even depress the button to draw the pistol.


 


Now when I say sand, I dont mean what you all encounter at the beach; oh no. I mean the finest smallest specs of sand in existance and it get into everything! Still have some of that crap between the lens and frame of my eyeglasses. It got to the point where if you didnt clean out your Serpa holster at least every other day it would accumulate enough of this sand to jack up the Serpa system. Thus my reason for not wanting to carry them. Also the fact it just doesnt seem... whats the word... correct, for LE street holster. All it takes is something to hit that button and next thing ya know, ya weapons is being pointed at you by Poony!


 


I know, there is a newer model with a hood device on it.. hadnt tried that one yet so cant add my 2 Euro's to that sandpile yet.


 


catm2005/Moderator 11


Everything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing at all..

Ec_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

catm2005 says ...



My last tour in Iraq before I got out of the military, Myself and the rest of my instructor cadre were givin the thigh rig Serpa holsters for our M9s. We wore them daily as they were much more light weight then our issued safariland6004 series thigh holster set up. Many of our troops through a fit because it was something they didnt have and it "looked cool". Well though our use of them, on the range back stateside they worked very well. I had no problem with the button in timed drills and liked the fact that I could sorta half way place the pistol in and let gravity and the Serpa system do the rest. However comma once we got into country (Kuwait,Iraq) the more sand that got into the locking system the more difficult it was to keep the weapon secure and even depress the button to draw the pistol.


 


Now when I say sand, I dont mean what you all encounter at the beach; oh no. I mean the finest smallest specs of sand in existance and it get into everything! Still have some of that crap between the lens and frame of my eyeglasses. It got to the point where if you didnt clean out your Serpa holster at least every other day it would accumulate enough of this sand to jack up the Serpa system. Thus my reason for not wanting to carry them. Also the fact it just doesnt seem... whats the word... correct, for LE street holster. All it takes is something to hit that button and next thing ya know, ya weapons is being pointed at you by Poony!


 


I know, there is a newer model with a hood device on it.. hadnt tried that one yet so cant add my 2 Euro's to that sandpile yet.


 


catm2005/Moderator 11



Thanks Catm!  ...and yes, you are correct, the "hood" model is the only Serpa intended for use on duty and is the same one I'm referring to.  


TOOLS & TOYS: A friendly place for operators to discuss gear & equipment and share product info & resources. Access is restricted to verified LEOS only. http://policelink.monster.com/groups/2038-tools-toys

Csi_squirrle_max600_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

wdoarjr says ...



ElizabethC says ...



The debris lock up you describe is not possible under normal situations.  It would take gross neglect to lead to that much debris build up over time - or a deliberate act of hand packing an unusual amount of wet dirt/sand, forcing it into the openings around the Serpa button. 


The fine motor skills/trigger finger issue is a familiar spin that I've heard from Safariland instructors.  (yes, I sell Safariland too)  I'd like to clarify this for you... The Serpa lock does not require the finger tip to release the lock.  The finger remains straight in a natural draw position and as the weapon is drawn, the straight trigger finger actually lines up to rest in the correct position - ABOVE the trigger.


 



I don't know what "normal situations" are but it can, and has, happened in my world.  Thank God these things have happened during training and the holsters involved were unceremoniously tossed over the burm.  There was no "gross neglect" or deliberate sabotage just hard training.


Maybe the training we do isn't "normal" but it tests both man and equipment.  When you push yourself and your gear to the limit, sometimes things happen that don't happen when you are punching holes in paper on a square range.


 If you read the instructions that come with your SERPA and follow them to a "T" you will have no problems with any of these deadly problems.   I'm sure it works quite well for most who use them.


Where I see the problems arise is during force-on-force training.  Rolling around in mud, gravel, weeds etc. while to big knuckleheads you thought were your friends enjoy pounding on you with padded bats.   Your gear gets filled with all kinds of crap, miss buttons, you drop guns, you miss safeties and you have AD's.


These things can happen with any design, they have just happened too often with the SERPA design.  Under stress, even disciplined fingers end up on triggers at bad times and people shot themselves.


I have no "spin" I have no connections to any holster maker or gear manufacturer.  I have personal observations and a passion for saving lives of good people. 


 


Could you tell us what type of training the South Carolina Constables go through.  It seems like extreme training for a volunteer officer.


Photo_user_banned_big

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

I know I'm showing my age but I remember a clam shell that had a cute button that pooped your revolver into your hand.  That is what the serpa remings me of.  I'll stick w/ my 070 thank you.

Quickley-b240_max50

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Rate This | Posted over 5 years ago

 

_JakesDad_ says ...



I know I'm showing my age but I remember a clam shell that had a cute button that pooped your revolver into your hand.  That is what the serpa remings me of.  I'll stick w/ my 070 thank you.



The clam shell was dangerous, I used a holster that had the lock button and was satisfied with it, that was many years ago. I practiced with it daily everyday I worked I always practiced my draw. I was faster than anyone I worked with. Practice, practice practice, that is a life saver.


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing." Dante

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Csi_squirrle_max600_1__max50

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I never owened a clam shell holster but I remember them from the show Adam-12.  Didn't you have to use two hands to holster the thing?  At least that's what they did on TV   LOL

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mmmm says ...



I never owened a clam shell holster but I remember them from the show Adam-12.  Didn't you have to use two hands to holster the thing?  At least that's what they did on TV   LOL



Yes and never tease an old timer.  We know where to bury the bodies.

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wdoarjr says ...



I have found that the Serpa holsters by Blackhawk! can be deadly.


The Serpa is a poorly designed but well marketed holster that has a user to press in with the finger tip as they draw their pistol. Some times the finger ends up right on the trigger pressing inward well before it would be safe to do.


I have also seen seasoned operators unable to draw from a Serpa holster under stress.  Hitting the button seems to be too fine a motor skill for everyone to draw under stress.  I have also seen debris accumulate under the release button and "lock" the holster.


I am to the point of banning them from my classes.


I am curious what experience have others had with them.



It gives at least a level 2 protection . Better then not having any safety at all. I think the holster was made for city functions and fashion shows. I wouldnt use it or would be a part of my tactical gear! I do own one and it looks cool and i dont think i have had any problems deploying my weapon even in the rain .

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officer1983 says ...



ElizabethC says ...



Deadly??  I disagree!


I have hundreds of officers all over the world who are wearing the Serpa Level III duty holster... both the light bearing and non-light bearing models.  Also have tactical teams wearing the tac rig version of the same.  Just to be clear...I have no vested interest in this holster but I do have a vested interest in officer safety and am very confident in the performance of this design.  This model has undergone rigorous field tests by departments all over the country. 


The debris lock up you describe is not possible under normal situations.  It would take gross neglect to lead to that much debris build up over time - or a deliberate act of hand packing an unusual amount of wet dirt/sand, forcing it into the openings around the Serpa button. 


The fine motor skills/trigger finger issue is a familiar spin that I've heard from Safariland instructors.  (yes, I sell Safariland too)  I'd like to clarify this for you... The Serpa lock does not require the finger tip to release the lock.  The finger remains straight in a natural draw position and as the weapon is drawn, the straight trigger finger actually lines up to rest in the correct position - ABOVE the trigger.


As with any equipment, officers should have some orientation before putting the holster in service.   If you like, I can arrange for a rep. from Blackhawk to contact you and schedule a training/orientation session at your location.  Please feel welcome to PM me if you are interested.



Elizabeth, you are one of my favorites on here  


But I must say that I will be sticking with my Safariland 070, also looks much more professional then that plastic/nylon crap!



True Blackhawk will come out and demonstrate there fine line of equipment. There headquarters is in my backyard.

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mmmm says ...



Could you tell us what type of training the South Carolina Constables go through.  It seems like extreme training for a volunteer officer.



Sure can, but first I'd like to point out that not all Constables in South Carolina are volunteer officers.  Some are full-time officers employed by the State. Others are veteran cops from agencies all over the State that have honorably retire after 20 or thirty years of service and have received a State Constable commission so that they can still serve the people of the State. And yes there are Constables that are volunteers that work much like reserve officers do elsewhere except they work for agencies all over the State. I do proudly serve as a volunteer.


To answer your question, we all have basic law enforcement training that includes training in Firearms, Arrest, Search & Seizure/Constitutional Law, Criminal Law, Communication Skills, Radio Procedures, Report Writing, Interviews, Arrest Techniques, DT, CDV, EVO, HAZMAT, Diversity, Officer Survival, Prisoner Control and Transportation, Use of Force, Shooting Decisions, Handling the Mentally Ill, Juvenile Procedures, Sexual Assault.  I'm sure I've left something out but I'm sure you get the idea.

From there our training varies widely. We have Constables that are IT professionals that work computer crimes and investigations. We have Constables that are physicians that do TEMS. We have Constables that are CPA’s that work financial crimes. We have Constables that are firearms instructors that train full-time officers and volunteers. We also have Constables that do every other aspect of law enforcement you can think of.  Some of these duties require a great deal of additional training, some don’t.


The “extreme” training you asked about is by no means required or routine.  I have taught and attended classes that included that type of force-on-force training.  
 

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Wdoarjr, you claimed that this holster can be "deadly,"  which is a pretty strong statement that I would take swift action to address.


But you still haven't replied with any interest in sharing your experiences with the manufacturer's product manager.  He is very interested in talking to you.


TOOLS & TOYS: A friendly place for operators to discuss gear & equipment and share product info & resources. Access is restricted to verified LEOS only. http://policelink.monster.com/groups/2038-tools-toys

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ElizabethC says ...



But you still haven't replied with any interest in sharing your experiences with the manufacturer's product manager.  He is very interested in talking to you.


 



Sorry, I missed your offer to hook me up with the SERPA guy.  I spoke to Blackhawk reps at the last SHOT SHOW but they showed little concern but if this guy is willing to listen I'll give him a call.


PM me with his contact information, or invite him here.

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