Group Forums >> The Brotherhood >> Are Military Cops Covered Under HR 218?
Are Military Cops Covered Under HR 218?
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| Posted 10 months ago juliefx_2002 says ...
Not really much to say- MP's are NOT covered under HR218- we did not make the law...and I for one do not think any less of MP's..but fact is fact, you are not covered under HR218. Sometimes in this world there is Justice,..and sometimes there is JUST US..
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| Posted 10 months ago oldtimecopper says ...
I'm not belittling anyone and if you check the dates my posts are old I just can't believe this is still going. I said it's a dead horse thread how does that belittle people. Oh wait you guys are right I'm wrong so sorry. Pain is weakness leaving the body. Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal. |
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| Posted 10 months ago juliefx_2002 says ...
I disagree, close, lock and throw away the key to this thread before it spreads more hate and discontent! And your first post should have been an introduction! |
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| Posted 3 months ago I created a quick account to post my opionion on this thread. It is clear that Military Police Officers are not covered under hr218.I do feel though that the subject shouldnt be limited just to Military Police(which i am actively serving as) but of every member of the armed forces. Im not even saying that i have that much trust in every member of our service, trust me ive served with some shit bags, but the fact remains that we are a fully volunteer force composed of men and women whom have didicated there lives to protect this nation yet our country trusts us with some of the deadliest firepower in the world to fight and die for our freedom but does not trust us to carry a side arm around our own country. Now im sorry but that is some Grade A+ Bullshit. I am ceritified with weapons systems that most non-prior service LEO's have even seen but our political oversight treats our military as a risk. Without cops we face disorder, without soldiers we face national distruction. Are we not even equals? Frustrated, DaileyUSAR |
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| Posted 3 months ago This topic should be renamed "The thread that would not die", however let's revisit the FACTS (as opposed to the OPINIONS) of HR 218. The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (aka HR 218) was enacted in 2004 and allows two classes of persons to carry a concealed firearm in any jurisdiction in the United States regardless of any state or local law to the contrary ----- qualified LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS and qualified retired LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. HR 218 goes further and states that in order to be covered as a qualified LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, "a person must meet EACH AND EVERY ONE of the following criteria; he/she MUST BE 1) an employee of a government agency, 2) is authorized BY LAW to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, 3) has STATUTORY POWERS OF ARREST, 4) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm, 5) is not subject to any disciplinary action by the agency, 6) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm, and 7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm. As we can see military members, even those who perform law enforcement duties, are not covered by LEOSA because they fail to meet each and every one of the criteria outlined above. Of course nothing prevents a service member from carrying a concealed firearm...providing they obtain the required CCF permit. The intent of LEOSA is to give qualified LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS the right to carry a firearm concealed on or about his/her person regardless of state or local law which thereby increases the number of officers available who are armed and capable of responding to criminal acts committed in their presence. Be nice. Be professional. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet. Misery minus me equals humor. I reject your reality and substitute my own. |
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| Posted 3 months ago I understand. I should have posted in my topic that i didnt really mean that hr 218 should have anything to do with military personel, it shouldnt. only that i wish something would be done to accomidate service members. the topic obviously turned into a rant and not a discussion so i figured id voice my thoughts on the general issue..... (Im bored at work) |
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| Posted 3 months ago military members can get concealed handgun licenses like any other American citizen, and in the state of Texas they can even get it at 20, and at only the cost of the paperwork processing. Its not about being "equal" to cops...the reality is Soldiers are not cops, and cops are not Soldiers. Soldiers are tasked with war, cops are tasked with keeping the peace in permissive environments and all that goes with it.
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| Posted 2 months ago I can't stand it anymore. HR 218 should have covered the Military Cops. But as the law was being developed and written I guess no one really thought about putting the Military Cops especially retired in the law. I agree with some about the maturity of young MP's & MA's. I have done a lot when it comes to being a Military Cop relating to Civilian LEO's. As a matter of fact I was one of the first Monadnock Defensive Tactic System Instructor Trainers at the Monadnock Seminar in 94. We do the same as the Civ's. When I retired from Active duty I became a Ky Cop. The training and experience I brought to the job was unmatched. I was an investigator and attended the Army MPI course, had it not been for that course I would have been lost as a patrolman policing the streets of the Commonwealth. A homocide, rape, bank robbery and other stuff. And when I was the CMAA on 3 different ships I did all with my MA force. We had a SWAT team, jail, and protective services detail. I have counted the nose hairs on Dick Cheney when he was SEC DEF. Guess what? I arrested, detained, apprehended and charged civilians on a regular basis at Dam Neck and Oceana, VA. I testified in US Magistrate court many times. So did my troops. The assimiliatives crime act allows the enforcement under state law. So does the Special Maritime jurisdiction. And the Secretary of the Navy has the authority to enforce civil law, the Navy is not part of the Posse Comitatus law according to the living document the Constitution. It lives and breathes, at least thats what the Professor says. When I became a rookie civ Cop, the young guys ALWAYS asked my opinion regarding a complex issue. I didn't know it all, still don't. Don't care anymore, I'm retired forever. Hit by a car directing traffic at an accident. Didn't help my service connected problems. I was an FTO, Def Tact Inst, Radar Inst, HGN Inst, PR-24, ASP, PPCT, MDTS, all kinds of junk. And now I'm a broke d#$k. And retired 7th Deg in HKD and JJ. Recently hosted 15 Japanese Judo master nationals from the Kodokan in Tokyo. One was a retired Tokyo Metro Cop, and another was the instructor for the Dalai Lama bodyguards, and one was 83 the oldest living 8th Dan in Japan. We should have been included in HR218, maybe they could put retired MP's/MA's in the revision. I know several civ officers who should have never put on the badge. Advanced MP training is sometimes superior to the states in service. Ok, I'll shut up. Now everyone tell me to stop bragging. The only reason that young MA1 was asking about the HR218 is the same reason you guys carry nationwide, because you can. Why should he be different. And last but not least, the JAG school in Charlottsville made a statement that the UCMJ is statutory. So MP/MA's would be governed by enforcing statutory law? I know one of you is going to call me a big mouth and don't know what I'm talking about. The only happy Sailor is a bitching Sailor. If we enforce the law of eye for an eye, the world would soon go blind. At least according to Ghandi. |
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| Posted 2 months ago to rsteade I hate to say it but you are wrong concerning the reason for HR218. It was not designed or drafted to have an immediate armed response like you elude to. The law was written in the event an active or retired officer was threatend by a prior arrestee or their family was targted by prior arrestees. I know you are going to say I'm wrong. Of course you will. Contact or visit the LEAA website, they sponsored the bill as cops should. In all jurisdictions, it is well known that depts leadership will not support their officers activities either off duty or retired. You say that the law was for immediate response? How can a retired Florida cop enforce New York law as a retiree? OR even active officers for that matter. It just gripes my rear end that many civilian officers think that MP's/MA's/PS's/SP's and other military police don't have the ability or cognitive reasoning to be a civilian cop. How many including myself have become civilian cops after a turn as an MP. I know other civilian cops especially in large military areas such as Norfolk, retired civ cops go to work for DOD Police depts. Including the ones that some of the guys here have said they aren't cops. The ones appointed by Commadnding Officers as base Police Officers. They are cops, and have statutory arrest powers. After serving as a Chief of Police for 3 different Naval installations and having civilian officers,some DOD some not, enforce the laws, they are the same as anyone else. By the way, the law is being amended to allow 10 year veterans the same rights/priviliges as the current law. And provisions for MILITARY POLICE (RETIRED) TO CARRY NATIONWIDE....................HA!HA! |
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| Posted 2 months ago Wow dude............You need help. The only thing you have to do is die. |
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| Posted 2 months ago Hmmmm, why don't you just throw in a "NaNaNeBooBoo stick your head in DooDoo" while your at it! Geeeeezzz! |
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| Posted 2 months ago My goodness can someone please make this end? Lock, Vault, sanction anyone that brings it up again please please please please. Pain is weakness leaving the body. Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal. |
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| Posted 2 months ago it should be evident that every couple of months or so, some MP type is going to come in/on policelink and demand respect from civilian police officers....it never fails...and it will continue to happen long after this one is locked and vaulted... |
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| Posted 2 months ago PSD_TEAM_LEADER says ...
You're probably right. I spent 11 1/2 years as an Army MP (E6/SSG) and 4 of those years were at Division level. I never thought it applied to MP's and was not angry about it. I realised it applied to an area of law enforcement I did not belong to. Oh well. Pain is weakness leaving the body. Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal. |
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| Posted 2 months ago PSD had it right Cops are not soldiers and soldiers are not cops. Our military is the greatest on earth. I appreciate our military and every man and woman that has and ever will serve. It just doesn't apply With that WHY oh WHY resurrect an OLD thread? Is it just me or is it the theme of day? You have the rest of you life to solve the problem, how long your life lasts depends on how well you do it. -Clint Smith |
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| Posted 2 months ago Well let's just hope one of our fine moderators comes by and puts it away for us. Pain is weakness leaving the body. Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal. |
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| Posted 2 months ago This thread is finished. Check please! Pain is weakness leaving the body. Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal. |
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| Posted 2 months ago Hey Chris, whatsssssssssssssss uppppppppppppppppppppppppppp? Maybe if I hi-jack this thread it will go away! |
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| Posted 2 months ago Lulusgt says ...
There you go. What's new with you. Pain is weakness leaving the body. Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal. |
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| Posted 2 months ago Hanging out watching people make DUMB comments, dodging the Sarge so I don't get my hand slapped for hi-jacking threads! And just being an overall pain in the arse! And you? |
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| Posted 2 months ago Lulusgt says ...
That plus watching really bad low budget scifi. Pain is weakness leaving the body. Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal. |
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| Posted 2 months ago Mmmmm No! After they got rid of the original Dr. Who I quit watching SciFi! |
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| Posted 2 months ago Lulusgt says ...
weirdo The only thing you have to do is die. |
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| Posted 2 months ago ShockUSMC87 says ...
Bite me Wannabe! lol |
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| Posted 2 months ago Out of respect for the original topic I just posted this question on the White House website; "I apologize for using this forum for my question but it was the best I had found. I am a former US Army Military Police Officer (E6/SSG) and currently a KY State Trooper. There has been an ongoing debate ever since HR 218 was enacted. The question for the appropriate cabinet is, does HR 218 cover Military Police. My opinion has always been no. It has been my fear that with all the question about it, if it was not addressed soldiers could find themselves on the wrong side of the law." Let's see if I get e response back. Pain is weakness leaving the body. Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal. |
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| Posted 2 months ago You're so respectful! |
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| Posted 2 months ago Lulusgt says ...
Go pull a car over or somethin kathy The only thing you have to do is die. |
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| Posted 2 months ago ShockUSMC87 says ...
How bout I come tase you Susan! |
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| Posted 2 months ago Lulusgt says ...
Pain is weakness leaving the body. Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal. |
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| Posted 2 months ago KSP494 says ...
The question is really answered by the military in itself. When off duty, MPs cannot even carry on post, the arms are locked up in the armory. If MPs cannot even carry 24-7 on a military installation, why would they carry in an official capacity off post where there is zero authority? Like I said...anyone can get a concealed handgun license. Military members can get that like anyone else. What so many MPs just dont seem to understand (or just dont want to because they want to be seen in the same light as civil authority peace officers) is that police officers are armed 24-7 because of their roles as sworn law enforcement personnel...with the ability to make arrests, searches, and seizures...and because of their role as civil authority. As a military member myself, and who just deployed as an MP with an MP unit, I just think its a serious sign of an inferiority complex when MPs want the same authority and scope as civilian police officers in civilian settings. "Civilian police officers...give me respect, I demand your respect...validate me please!' Silly. |
