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do decals matter?

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Sks_max50

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Posted almost 6 years ago

 

 I was recently stopped and I have a support Law Enforcement magent and a Thin Blue Line magent on the back of my car and as I was sitting there waiting I couldnt help but  ask myself if they were helping. Obviously this is not my reasoning for having these magnets on my car considering I really do support all LE out there. I also had one of my law textbooks in the back seat.  So does any of that factor into an officers decision?  I did end up getting the ticket but he reduced it significantly- he timed me doing 55 in a 35 and he lowered it to a 40 in a 35.

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Rated +1 | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

First of all you should not have a thin blue line magnet on your car.  The thin blue line magnets, pins, etc were created for active law enforcement officers, not supporters. I would make you take it off your car.

Epd_patch_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

police911 says ...



First of all you should not have a thin blue line magnet on your car.  The thin blue line magnets, pins, etc were created for active law enforcement officers, not supporters. I would make you take it off your car.



EXACTLY! You are not entitled to having the thin blue line on your vehicle.  This is something that would make an active member of the line upset to say the least if he/she discovered that you are displaying it w/o being an active LEO.  I will ask you: Please remove the thin blue line magnet off your vehicle.


Life is 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you react to it.

Sks_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Sorry I didnt know that- the place where I got it said that it was for supporters, they did have an official decal that only LEOs could buy but the one I bought it said was for supporters.

Quickley-b240_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

okay question, I am retired and have the thin blue line, would I be asked to remove it? Also being retired, if I placed the FOP metal insignia on my plate would I have to take it off? With those on my car would it do me any good if I were stopped for speeding? going through a yellow/red light?


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing." Dante

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New_emblem3_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

When it comes to the F.O.P. / L.E. support stickers for civilians I have always had the view throughout my career is that they are not a factor on wheter I decide to cite someone or not.  My thoughts have always been "Wanna do something to support L.E.??? Don't break the law!"


bill9823:  If I stopped you, and you told me that you were a retired officer or had your retired badge or I.D. card I would tell you to have a good day. Of course, being a retired L.E. Officer I would expect you not to speed or run red / yellow lights in the first place.


cadet86:  I agree with bmorgan...I would have written you for 55 in a 35 without a second thought and also would have given you the "If you want to be a LEO then don't break the law" speech.


Bill Gannon: "It's a new generation, Joe…Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it? It's like we were living in a different century. We see things as black or white, legal or illegal, right or wrong. They don't seem to see it that way. Maybe they just don't know the difference."

Joe Friday: "Then it's time they learned."

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

bill9823 says ...



okay question, I am retired and have the thin blue line, would I be asked to remove it? Also being retired, if I placed the FOP metal insignia on my plate would I have to take it off? With those on my car would it do me any good if I were stopped for speeding? going through a yellow/red light?



Absolutely not.  I feel you are just as entitled to have one as me or any other active Officer.  You have put in your time and deserve it

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

mjdep says ...



When it comes to the F.O.P. / L.E. support stickers for civilians I have always had the view throughout my career is that they are not a factor on wheter I decide to cite someone or not.  My thoughts have always been "Wanna do something to support L.E.??? Don't break the law!"


bill9823:  If I stopped you, and you told me that you were a retired officer or had your retired badge or I.D. card I would tell you to have a good day. Of course, being a retired L.E. Officer I would expect you not to speed or run red / yellow lights in the first place.


cadet86:  I agree with bmorgan...I would have written you for 55 in a 35 without a second thought and also would have given you the "If you want to be a LEO then don't break the law" speech.



I wouldn't intentionally break the law but crap does happen sometimes. I just wanted an active point of view. Thanks


"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing." Dante

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Me_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Ok, non halo wearing LEO here...come on everyone, you mean to tell me that none of you have ever, ever driven above the posted speed limit.....and by that I mean off duty....or before you were a LEO???????


That sarcasm aside, Active LEO's, and/or their immediate family (usually their spouse or kid) I've given my share of breaks to, the rest have pretty much been decided by the driver's attitude, demeanor, etc., or the severity of the offense.


And in regards to the decals, there are a number of supporters and civilian staff that have them on their vehicle, you never know who's life has been impacted by the death of a LEO

Working_hard__lol_max50

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Rated +1 | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Thin Blue Line does not require a person to be a LEO to get one or possess one.  So in saying that, anyone can have a sticker/magnet on their car and to tell someone to take the sticker off is crazy.  I refuse to get one simply because anyone can get it, so it has no meaning to me (such as I'm a LEO because I have a blue line sticker).  Most of the people I have stopped that had a TBL sticker is not affiliated with LEO in any manner and they just bought one hoping they would not get pulled over. I have seen TBL decals on all types of vehicles and all types of drivers, (young, old, black, white, illegal immagrants, hispanics).


 As for do decals matter? YES some get my "attention" more than others.  If you support LEO, keep your decals and show your support.........rock on with true supporters of LEO.

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

 


police911 says ...



bill9823 says ...



okay question, I am retired and have the thin blue line, would I be asked to remove it? Also being retired, if I placed the FOP metal insignia on my plate would I have to take it off? With those on my car would it do me any good if I were stopped for speeding? going through a yellow/red light?



Absolutely not.  I feel you are just as entitled to have one as me or any other active Officer.  You have put in your time and deserve it



RIGHT ON BROTHER!!!!

Jal_fast_main_image_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Decals are a way of saying "pay extra attention to me"..... Now you are most likely either a supporter or a member of the thin blue line, but they shouldn't be considered for anything more than that....


I have seen pix of vehicles that had specialty LEO plates & stickers being used as "disguises" for badguys.... in 1 of the LEO books, it showed a car in IL that was stopped with such items that had been driven by gang members.... drugs and loaded guns were seized...


I have personally stopped at least 2 different cars that had "active member" FOP medallions on them with no one in the car being connected to LEO in any way shape or form.... (I had them remove those medallions as allowed by IL Laws-but was 'nice' enough to not cite them for it as the car was likely sold with the medallion still attached).


Too many youngsters get their hands on firearms without proper supervision. Keep your guns secure from ALL unauthorized persons! Lets stop burying children - PLEASE (jal.fast@yahoo.com)

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

do decals matter?


 


Well, in California they mean "Stop me, because I'm a bored cop who likes to have my personal vehicle targeted for vandalism",


 


or


 


"Stop me, because I'm trafficking a bunch of meth and weapons".


 


More of the latter than the former.

Dapd2_0_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

police911 says ...



First of all you should not have a thin blue line magnet on your car.  The thin blue line magnets, pins, etc were created for active law enforcement officers, not supporters. I would make you take it off your car.



Can you cite, or reference, any law or statute that shows you have the authority to demand the removal of said sticker or decal?


"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Me_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Ina_Pickle says ...



Decals are a way of saying "pay extra attention to me"..... Now you are most likely either a supporter or a member of the thin blue line, but they shouldn't be considered for anything more than that....


I have seen pix of vehicles that had specialty LEO plates & stickers being used as "disguises" for badguys.... in 1 of the LEO books, it showed a car in IL that was stopped with such items that had been driven by gang members.... drugs and loaded guns were seized...


I have personally stopped at least 2 different cars that had "active member" FOP medallions on them with no one in the car being connected to LEO in any way shape or form.... (I had them remove those medallions as allowed by IL Laws-but was 'nice' enough to not cite them for it as the car was likely sold with the medallion still attached).



As for the active FOP stickers / plate medalions, if the person stopped is in no way an immediate family member, absolutely will have them remove it, or cite them AND remove it. We have a banger here with a DARE plate on his car. You just have to recognize who is flashing that NEON STUPIDITY AURA and those that are just supporters / naive in what they all mean citizen.


And if I read the post by Cadet86 correctly, and checked his profile, he's not a holster sniffer and was just asking a legit question.....


Just my thoughts!

Epd_patch_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

bill9823 says ...



okay question, I am retired and have the thin blue line, would I be asked to remove it? Also being retired, if I placed the FOP metal insignia on my plate would I have to take it off? With those on my car would it do me any good if I were stopped for speeding? going through a yellow/red light?



Absolutely not - you are more entitled to it than I am.  Thank you for your years of service.


Life is 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you react to it.

Patrolcar_pic_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

trace1 says ...



police911 says ...



First of all you should not have a thin blue line magnet on your car.  The thin blue line magnets, pins, etc were created for active law enforcement officers, not supporters. I would make you take it off your car.



Can you cite, or reference, any law or statute that shows you have the authority to demand the removal of said sticker or decal?



Can't really remove them here, but there are statutes that nobody every tickets on for Unauthorized Decal and Obstructed Plate. Those stupid things the dealer puts around your license plate can earn ya a ticket here, as well as bumper stickers. Very rarely is anyone ticketed on them, but it is possible.


"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. "

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Bill, you and all of our retired brethern have most certainly put in your time....have a nice day, cya bye...


Heroes Live Forever!

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

In Virginia, you could be charged under the criminal statutes:


§ 18.2-176. Unauthorized wearing or displaying on motor vehicles of any button, insignia or emblem of certain associations or societies or of Southern Cross of Honor.


(a) No person shall wear the button or insignia of any order of police, trade union or veterans' organization or display upon a motor vehicle the insignia or emblem of any automobile club, medical society, order of police, trade union or veterans' organization or use such button, insignia or emblem to obtain aid or assistance unless entitled to wear, display or use the same under the constitution, bylaws, rules or regulations of the organization concerned.


(b) No person shall wear any Southern Cross of Honor when not entitled to do so by the regulations under which such Crosses of Honor are given.


(c) A violation of this section shall be a Class 3 misdemeanor.


 

Nypd_helicopter_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Charles914 says ...



In Virginia, you could be charged under the criminal statutes:


§ 18.2-176. Unauthorized wearing or displaying on motor vehicles of any button, insignia or emblem of certain associations or societies or of Southern Cross of Honor.


(a) No person shall wear the button or insignia of any order of police, trade union or veterans' organization or display upon a motor vehicle the insignia or emblem of any automobile club, medical society, order of police, trade union or veterans' organization or use such button, insignia or emblem to obtain aid or assistance unless entitled to wear, display or use the same under the constitution, bylaws, rules or regulations of the organization concerned.


(b) No person shall wear any Southern Cross of Honor when not entitled to do so by the regulations under which such Crosses of Honor are given.


(c) A violation of this section shall be a Class 3 misdemeanor.


 



I appreciate the state of Virginia's attempt to try and prevent and reduce possible police impersonations, but some of the state statutes, and more importantly, the way they are enforced, brings many questions to mind. Isn't this the same state where officers/deputies have been known to stop marked police vehicles from other jurisdictions, including other Virginian departments and those from outside the state? I can't see how having the bronze FOP shield on your bumper can constitute a misdemeanor? Is that a Misd. of the Penal code or the VTL?

Patrolcar_pic_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Wasn't it VA that stopped a whole convoy of police and emergency vehicles that were traveling through on their way to aid in Hurrican Katrina a couple years ago?? I admit, many of NY's statutes are totally out of date, but to arrest someone who is wearing any of the insignia described without permission is just ludicrous.


"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. "

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

NYPD_Blue says ...



Charles914 says ...



In Virginia, you could be charged under the criminal statutes:


§ 18.2-176. Unauthorized wearing or displaying on motor vehicles of any button, insignia or emblem of certain associations or societies or of Southern Cross of Honor.


(a) No person shall wear the button or insignia of any order of police, trade union or veterans' organization or display upon a motor vehicle the insignia or emblem of any automobile club, medical society, order of police, trade union or veterans' organization or use such button, insignia or emblem to obtain aid or assistance unless entitled to wear, display or use the same under the constitution, bylaws, rules or regulations of the organization concerned.


(b) No person shall wear any Southern Cross of Honor when not entitled to do so by the regulations under which such Crosses of Honor are given.


(c) A violation of this section shall be a Class 3 misdemeanor.


 



I appreciate the state of Virginia's attempt to try and prevent and reduce possible police impersonations, but some of the state statutes, and more importantly, the way they are enforced, brings many questions to mind. Isn't this the same state where officers/deputies have been known to stop marked police vehicles from other jurisdictions, including other Virginian departments and those from outside the state? I can't see how having the bronze FOP shield on your bumper can constitute a misdemeanor? Is that a Misd. of the Penal code or the VTL?



Violation of Title 18.2 which is the criminal code. All traffic infractions are covered under Title 46.2 of the code. As for enforcement is concerned, this is a misd. releasable on summons. I've never charged anyone with it but know other officers who have taken decals and FOP shields of those who do not have the proper identification to prove it is theirs. We do have quite a few "citizens" here in the county where I work who like to pretend that the are officers.


I know of at least two of the incident(s) of which you speak and can't address them as they occured (as I recall) on an Interstate highway in southern VA.

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Jkaz232 says ...



Wasn't it VA that stopped a whole convoy of police and emergency vehicles that were traveling through on their way to aid in Hurrican Katrina a couple years ago?? I admit, many of NY's statutes are totally out of date, but to arrest someone who is wearing any of the insignia described without permission is just ludicrous.



I think you are referring to this incident:


N.J. police object to stop of 95-mph convoy

Officers heading home from Katrina duty got warning, then got mad


BY MICHAEL L. OWENS AND ALICIA PETSKA

MEDIA GENERAL NEWS SERVICE


Sep 30, 2005


WAYNESBORO -- A speeding New Jersey police convoy should not have been warned to slow down here, its superiors say, despite numerous 911 calls from motorists claiming they were forced off Interstate 81.


An incensed New Jersey sheriff called an Augusta County deputy a "disgrace" for pulling over officers returning home from a Hurricane Katrina relief mission Sept. 18.


Augusta Sheriff Randy Fisher and the Virginia State Police defend the stop because the New Jersey officers were traveling 95 mph with their lights flashing.


Virginia law requires an emergency before officers can speed and activate their lightbars. Instead of a warning, the speeding officers could have gotten citations.


"It was causing a dangerous situation, and basically we had to do something," Fisher said. "People were pulling off to the left and people were pulling off to the right getting out of the way of these guys."


Virginia State Police said they logged "numerous" 911 calls early Sept. 18 from motorists complaining about marked cars from the Passaic County Sheriff's Office and Wayne Police Department driving dangerously near Weyers Cave.


With Virginia State Police troopers busy working other cases, only Augusta County Deputy Mike Roane was available to answer the call. Roane averted a potential disaster, Fisher said, after clocking the convoy's lead car at 95 mph.


"Five or six of them did not stop, they just continued northbound," the Augusta sheriff added. "I think they were in a hurry to get home."


Roane ordered the officers whom Fisher described as belligerent -- in the remaining six cars to cut off their lightbars and slow down. A Virginia trooper telephoned their New Jersey departments requesting that the homeward-bound officers slow down.


"There was no emergency situation they were responding to in Virginia that we know of," Virginia State Police spokeswoman Corinne Geller said.


That same day, Virginia troopers patrolling the state's southwestern interstate roads pulled over a roughly 80-car convoy of New York police homebound from Katrina relief, Geller said. That group stuck to the speed limit, though troopers asked them to stay out of the left lane.


The news of the Augusta County stop incensed Passaic County Sheriff Jerry Speziale, who, in a taped telephone conversation with Roane, lambasted the deputy for stopping his officers.


"If you think that that's not a disgrace, you should take that badge off your shirt and throw it in the garbage," Speziale said. "This is unacceptable, and I'll tell you what, I hope I get the opportunity to show you the same courtesy up here in New Jersey."


Speziale told Roane that "law enforcement is all about supporting each other" and said he was reporting the Augusta County stop to the National Sheriffs' Association.


Speziale ended the call after cutting short Roane's attempt to detail the incident. "I don't talk to deputies," the New Jersey sheriff said.


Other officials from the New Jersey departments remain indignant that its officers were ordered to slow down.


"We make no excuses," Passaic County Sheriff's spokesman Bill Maer told The News Virginian on Tuesday. "They'd been working 'round the clock [in a hurricane-devastated New Orleans]. They were coming back with equipment that needed to get back. In our opinion, they acted appropriately. We take offense at the way they were treated."


A Wayne police official seemed angered when The News Virginian called about the incident last week.


"So what, we're not going to talk about the good these people are doing, you're just going to look for something bad?" Capt. Paul Ireland replied.


Fisher, instead of phoning Speziale, drafted him a letter detailing the stop, defending Roane's actions, and saying that the New Jersey officers were "unprofessional."


Passaic County, in the meantime, plans to send more volunteers to New Orleans, but not through Augusta County.


"We're going to avoid Virginia at all cost -- we're clearly not welcome there," Maer said. "Maybe Virginia should learn from our example."



Michael L. Owens and Alicia Petska are staff writers at The News Virginian in Waynesboro.

Avatar_wild_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Jkaz232 says ...



Wasn't it VA that stopped a whole convoy of police and emergency vehicles that were traveling through on their way to aid in Hurrican Katrina a couple years ago?? I admit, many of NY's statutes are totally out of date, but to arrest someone who is wearing any of the insignia described without permission is just ludicrous.



WI troopers have a similar reputation.


Heroes Live Forever!

Dapd2_0_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Jkaz232 says ...



trace1 says ...



police911 says ...



First of all you should not have a thin blue line magnet on your car.  The thin blue line magnets, pins, etc were created for active law enforcement officers, not supporters. I would make you take it off your car.



Can you cite, or reference, any law or statute that shows you have the authority to demand the removal of said sticker or decal?



Can't really remove them here, but there are statutes that nobody every tickets on for Unauthorized Decal and Obstructed Plate. Those stupid things the dealer puts around your license plate can earn ya a ticket here, as well as bumper stickers. Very rarely is anyone ticketed on them, but it is possible.



Decals or emblems on, attached, or obstructing license plates are a different matter, probably in most every state if not all. But police911 stated that he would make anyone, not authorized to display the image of the Thin Blue Line, remove it and I was specifically asking him to show how he could enforce that by stating which law or statute he would base his decision on.


trace1 says ...



police911 says ...



First of all you should not have a thin blue line magnet on your car.  The thin blue line magnets, pins, etc were created for active law enforcement officers, not supporters. I would make you take it off your car.



Can you cite, or reference, any law or statute that shows you have the authority to demand the removal of said sticker or decal?



"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Patrolcar_pic_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Wow, I wasn't aware of the NJ officers being pulled over, but if what was said in the article is true, then maybe they do deserve to be reprimanded. I was only aware of the NY officers. I would have to say, if that were in my jurisdiction, I'd do whatever I could to get them through without any obstruction, not stop them to tell them "Please stay out of the left lane.'


 


At any rate, I'd like to know what statute allows one to demand a decal be taken off a car?


"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. "

Patrolcar_pic_max50

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

police911 says ...



First of all you should not have a thin blue line magnet on your car.  The thin blue line magnets, pins, etc were created for active law enforcement officers, not supporters. I would make you take it off your car.



If this is the case, civilians shouldn't be allowed to purchase them then through the NLEOMF website. Just seeing a decal doesn't dissuade me from writing a ticket. that's like letting someone go for having a PBA sticker.


"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. "

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Jkaz232 says ...



Wow, I wasn't aware of the NJ officers being pulled over, but if what was said in the article is true, then maybe they do deserve to be reprimanded. I was only aware of the NY officers. I would have to say, if that were in my jurisdiction, I'd do whatever I could to get them through without any obstruction, not stop them to tell them "Please stay out of the left lane.'


 


At any rate, I'd like to know what statute allows one to demand a decal be taken off a car?



The Virginia statute as stated earlier in this thread permits the officer to take the decal into evidence as the charge for displaying it is unlawful should you not be a member of those organizations as outlined. The charge is a misdemeanor in VIrginia charged under the criminal code. Police911 will have to answer about the code in his particular jurisdiction.

Funny

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Jkaz232 says ...



Wow, I wasn't aware of the NJ officers being pulled over, but if what was said in the article is true, then maybe they do deserve to be reprimanded. I was only aware of the NY officers. I would have to say, if that were in my jurisdiction, I'd do whatever I could to get them through without any obstruction, not stop them to tell them "Please stay out of the left lane.'


 


At any rate, I'd like to know what statute allows one to demand a decal be taken off a car?



Does that not infringe on the free speech rights. they are not claiming a status or rank simply exposing an emblem that is publicly available . That one would get the aclu flying faster that water hoses at a protest. I would challenge any officer to clear their demands for decal removal with their Sarge. I but they would find out real fast the laws mentioned here do not totally cover their behinds.


Does anybody know of any legal cases or challenges about an officer demanding a citizen to remove a decal?


It was once said the way to understand men is to understand their basic principles. 1 All men need to feel they are better than at least one other person. 2 Man naturally accumulates objects. 3 Man naturally feels his objects maybe less superior than his neighbors. 4 Men are naturally driven to improve his position in comparison to what he knows about others.

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Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

lynettesman says ...



Jkaz232 says ...



Wow, I wasn't aware of the NJ officers being pulled over, but if what was said in the article is true, then maybe they do deserve to be reprimanded. I was only aware of the NY officers. I would have to say, if that were in my jurisdiction, I'd do whatever I could to get them through without any obstruction, not stop them to tell them "Please stay out of the left lane.'


 


At any rate, I'd like to know what statute allows one to demand a decal be taken off a car?



Does that not infringe on the free speech rights. they are not claiming a status or rank simply exposing an emblem that is publicly available . That one would get the aclu flying faster that water hoses at a protest. I would challenge any officer to clear their demands for decal removal with their Sarge. I but they would find out real fast the laws mentioned here do not totally cover their behinds.


Does anybody know of any legal cases or challenges about an officer demanding a citizen to remove a decal?



If you have enough money, you can challenge anything. Besides, why would anyone want to put a decal that represents LE on their vehicle and they were not sworn LE unless they wanted to portray themselves as something they aren't...??? I don't believe that this is a First Amendment question but good luck with arguing it.

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