Law Enforcement Specialties >> Military Law Enforcement >> Abuse of power?

Rate

Abuse of power?

2,720 Views
17 Replies Flag as inappropriate
Photo_user_blank_big

1 post

back to top

Posted about 6 years ago

 

Are MPs allowed to take down license plate numbers for cars off post and then run them through their system on post for non-law enforcement reasons?


I am a Soldier and I made the mistake of going from my car into a store without my beret.  I wasn't intentionally trying to blow off the rules - it was nearly 8 pm at night and I had to go to the store (off post)  to get some medical supplies to treat an injured pet.  In my rush to get there before the store closed, I forgot to grab my beret as I left the house.   An MP, also in his uniform but driving his POV and on his own personal errand, stopped me when I went back out to the parking lot to make the uniform correction and then proceeded to bully and berate me, making sure to let me know at least 3 times that he was an MP.  I acknowledged that he was right and I was out of uniform so I was wrong.  I also told him that I didn't appreciate his manner and tone of voice and therefore I was through discussing the issue with him and walked away (I outrank this guy) and he continued to try to intimidate me anyway, telling me "Its on now; tomorrow its on".  When I got into my car to back out of my parking space, he was standing behind my car writing down my license plate.  I got back out to ask him why he was taking down my plate and he told me "In case I forget your name".  He didn't even write down my name, which I freely provided to him even though its clearly on my uniform.  My name is commonly mispronounced and misspelled, which leads me to believe that he did go back to the MP station on post and run my plate to get my information because my CSM got a phone call from the MP the next day to let him know about "my behavior".  I work on a fairly large post.


Are MPs allowed to do this?  As far as I'm concerned, this was a Soldier to Soldier issue and there was no law enforcement application to give him a reason to use his position as an MP to access my personal information through that system.  He just got pissed off at me because I walked away from him and made it a personal vendetta to get back at me.  Can anyone give me advice on whether or not he has overstepped the bounds?


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

Ert_patch_max50

305 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

You'd better take this one up with your CSM. As far as you outranking him, find him and right him for insubordination. I may be wrong, but whether or not he is an MP he still to give the proper respect to those of a higher pay grade.


"To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself."
-Sun Tzu-

Jal_fast_main_image_max50

1236 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

Not only should you discuss this with your CSM, but it may be appropriate to speak with the local JAG.


Use of the NCIC system is theoretically strictly limited in it's use and while this sounds like it's out of bounds, you sir are also "out of bounds"....here on PL....


You've made your 1st posting a potentially "hot topic" without following the protocols here of posting an introduction....as required by the TOU/TOS....


Too many youngsters get their hands on firearms without proper supervision. Keep your guns secure from ALL unauthorized persons! Lets stop burying children - PLEASE (jal.fast@yahoo.com)

-28 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

Yes, he overstepped. Make a complaint to PMO and let your SMAJ know what's up. As far as you outranking him, the insubordination thing isnt going to work unless you're an NCO or a Commissioned officer.


If he got that worked up over your not wearing your cover he's got a lot to learn. If he just HAD to say something it should have been more like "Hey Sgt, you forgot your cover." At that point, unless he outranked you as an NCO or officer, he should have let it go if you ignored him.


On base, obviously, is a different story. If he wants to write you up for it then so be it.......as long as he was respectful. If not then, like I said, have a talk with his NCOIC at PMO.

World_trade_center_max50

3 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

Wow. This is a good one. You are senior to a soldier that found you in violation of AR 670-1. The situation should have ended with an on the spot correction. This MP may be inviolation of AR 134 UCMJ. I am a former MP. I served on active duty for almost 10 years. What happened off post was off post what happened on post was on post and handled appropriately. It seems to me that this MP may have abused his authority in this case. I also agree that the use of LEADS / NCIC is limited to on post issues and situations only, and the use of it for a personal reasons is prohibited. Look into talking directly with Desk Sergeant at the post about it then wok your way up the chain of command. The last thing that you would want to do is come across in a manner that makes you look the same as this guy. As an E-6 and currently serving in the Air Guard with the Security Police I would not tolerate this from any of my airmen. As a Chief of Police I would terminate employement of any of my officers if I felt that acted in this manner to anyone they come into contact with. Let me know how it works out.

Photo_user_blank_big

66 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

A soldier is a soldier, 24 hours day and no matter what his location. The UCMJ and Army Regs apply to all soldiers 24 hours a day and no matter what their location.


From the stated case, i do no thave enough information to determine if the MP was within his proper authority or not for the initial correction. If he was an NCO, he was within his authority, but if he was a SPC or lower rank, he has no authority when off duty. Being in his POV may or may not have put him in an off duty status, though i would be willing to bet he was off (there were several times I drove my POV on duty as an MP, so it is not definite).


Regardless of the duty status or authority of the MP, it sounds like he did not handle the initial confrontation in a professional manner. That may need to be addressed through his chain of command.


As for the use of NCIC to get your personal information, it can be taken several ways. If he did it for personal reasons, that is a crime. If he did it as part of an investigation, that is legal and proper. Since he did report you to your chain of command, it can be interpreted as an investigation with an appropriate case handling. If he did not write a written report and get a case number, it can be interpreted as personal and the call to your unit being harassment. I will point out that he might not have used NCIC to get the information, but some other computer system. we used to run plates through the base registration system instead of NCIC when i was an MP. This gave us more information and the unit of assignment. This doesn't change the correctness of doing it but may or may not affect the criminality of it.


And I will also give all of you who answered one other warning (especially Chief Brockwaymj): We have one side of a story here. We do not have an unbiased statement from a witness. Before I could sya right or wrong, I would love to here the MP's side of the story. Don't you all think there is probably a great difference in the details of what went down if we got the other side? I would hope no one would ever take action, or even make up their mind, against an officer - or anyone else - based on one side of a story with no investigation or chance for defense.

Patrolcar_pic_max50

993 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

It sounds to me this MP abused his authority in using NCIC to find out your name because he forgot it. A violation of AR 670-1 should be handled by an on the spot correction, which is what it sounds like was done. to take it further, run you through NCIC to get your name sounds a bit much for a simple uniform violation. If it were me, I'd be taking it up with your chain of command.


"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. "

N1202178746_305955_5462_max50

7594 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

Not only can he not do it but their terminal could be yanked out of the PMO.


Pain is weakness leaving the body.

Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal.

Tahoes_max50

217 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

Well, since you still only have one post, I feel like I may be wasting my typing knuckles but here goes anyway.  First of all I am a  Military Police Officer and have been for quite a few years.  On base or off base, in my house or in your house, you are subject to the Uniformed Code of Military Justice 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year and 366 on leap year.  Military police carry with them Positional Authority which means they can and SHOULD correct infractions of another soldier or service member on or off base.  Of course there is a professional way of doing.  If things really went down the way they did, I would hope that if he were to belong to me that you would let me know.  Though I would not tell you he did wrong, I can assure you that I would put feet so far up his azz that his insides would get some new style. 


Ok now...On to the computer thing.  Please don't make the automatic assumption that becuase your name is unique or commonly misspelled that Billy Bob Bad Azz went back to his NCIC terminal and ran your tags.  If I am correct, the US Army uses a program where your DD Form 2220 is registered.  DD Form 2220 being your base decals is the DoD's license plate and our way of knowing who you are.  Another thing you should consider, n matter how much of a dumbazz you think he is, he may very well be a sharp guy and remember your name.  We commonly develope things like that.  I have this thing with Social Security Numbers.  They stick in my head.


The whole point is that you should contact the PMO and maybe the CSM but don't walk in the door making assumptions.  Present only the facts that you know.  You were uncovered in uniform outside and he was an asshole.  Let the folks who own him work it out from there, but I certainly DO NOT suggest you pull up at his gate and try to remind him you outrank him.  It may get even uglier for you.


If I have offended anyone, so be it.

N1202178746_305955_5462_max50

7594 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

navyfiveo says ...



Well, since you still only have one post, I feel like I may be wasting my typing knuckles but here goes anyway.  First of all I am a  Military Police Officer and have been for quite a few years.  On base or off base, in my house or in your house, you are subject to the Uniformed Code of Military Justice 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year and 366 on leap year.  Military police carry with them Positional Authority which means they can and SHOULD correct infractions of another soldier or service member on or off base.  Of course there is a professional way of doing.  If things really went down the way they did, I would hope that if he were to belong to me that you would let me know.  Though I would not tell you he did wrong, I can assure you that I would put feet so far up his azz that his insides would get some new style. 


Ok now...On to the computer thing.  Please don't make the automatic assumption that becuase your name is unique or commonly misspelled that Billy Bob Bad Azz went back to his NCIC terminal and ran your tags.  If I am correct, the US Army uses a program where your DD Form 2220 is registered.  DD Form 2220 being your base decals is the DoD's license plate and our way of knowing who you are.  Another thing you should consider, n matter how much of a dumbazz you think he is, he may very well be a sharp guy and remember your name.  We commonly develope things like that.  I have this thing with Social Security Numbers.  They stick in my head.


The whole point is that you should contact the PMO and maybe the CSM but don't walk in the door making assumptions.  Present only the facts that you know.  You were uncovered in uniform outside and he was an asshole.  Let the folks who own him work it out from there, but I certainly DO NOT suggest you pull up at his gate and try to remind him you outrank him.  It may get even uglier for you.



Well having been an MP (11 1/2 years) and Traffic NCOIC regardless of what information he used to obtain the persons info, if he did in fact do that, if the NCIC computer was used for any portion of that then there was a misuse of the system. Your referral to UCMJ has nothing to do with the NCIC computer. The NCIC terminal is a privilege that can be yanked if it was in fact used in this manner.


Pain is weakness leaving the body.

Obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off the goal.

Photo_user_banned_big

949 posts

back to top
+1

Rated +1 | Posted about 6 years ago

 

You shoulda made it worth your time and kicked his a$$ in the parking lot.  Then at least he would have something to really bitch about.....LOL.  Seriously though good luck, hope it calms down for you because military or not it sounds like that guy is a real weenie who can't handle a little bit of power.


Police work- the greatest show on earth and my team always wins!!!
Tulips and Trolls- one in the same but without them what fun would I have?

Tahoes_max50

217 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

KSP494 says ...



Well having been an MP (11 1/2 years) and Traffic NCOIC regardless of what information he used to obtain the persons info, if he did in fact do that, if the NCIC computer was used for any portion of that then there was a misuse of the system. Your referral to UCMJ has nothing to do with the NCIC computer. The NCIC terminal is a privilege that can be yanked if it was in fact used in this manner.



Maybe I am taking this post the wrong way, but before you blast me out there, read my post.  I, having been a military police officer for 15 years and Chief of a large department am aware the UCMJ has nothing to do with NCIC.  that is why I never made reference to the two together.  The only reference I made to NCIC is for him NOT to assume that just becuase the guy had your information he used the terminal.  We have other methods of tracking you by tag number.  The Army uses a program called COPS like the Navy uses WINSTARS or CLEOC.  As long as you have a DoD decal from any base in the world I can find out who the owner is and never have to look at NCIC. 


If I have offended anyone, so be it.

Tahoes_max50

217 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

And...I may agree with Chimp just a tiny bit.  Next time you decide not to bring your headgear, cover your license plates and rip off those cool velcro name tags the army wears and deliver an azzwhoopin to the unprofessional brat.  That'll learn him.


If I have offended anyone, so be it.

Kazan_pics__9__max50

220 posts

back to top
+1

Rated +1 | Posted about 6 years ago

 

Lo Jack his POV then call in artty.

Mr_speeder_max600_max50

39 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

MP's are not allowed to run plates off post unless its a safety stop. If it happens a lot, that post can lose their NCIC system. It happend when I was at Ft Hood, TX. A MP ran plates of VEH in his apartments and because of his actions FT Hood had their NCIC system taken away for a year.

Sgt

245 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

AbnSoldier says ...



Are MPs allowed to take down license plate numbers for cars off post and then run them through their system on post for non-law enforcement reasons?


I am a Soldier and I made the mistake of going from my car into a store without my beret.  I wasn't intentionally trying to blow off the rules - it was nearly 8 pm at night and I had to go to the store (off post)  to get some medical supplies to treat an injured pet.  In my rush to get there before the store closed, I forgot to grab my beret as I left the house.   An MP, also in his uniform but driving his POV and on his own personal errand, stopped me when I went back out to the parking lot to make the uniform correction and then proceeded to bully and berate me, making sure to let me know at least 3 times that he was an MP.  I acknowledged that he was right and I was out of uniform so I was wrong.  I also told him that I didn't appreciate his manner and tone of voice and therefore I was through discussing the issue with him and walked away (I outrank this guy) and he continued to try to intimidate me anyway, telling me "Its on now; tomorrow its on".  When I got into my car to back out of my parking space, he was standing behind my car writing down my license plate.  I got back out to ask him why he was taking down my plate and he told me "In case I forget your name".  He didn't even write down my name, which I freely provided to him even though its clearly on my uniform.  My name is commonly mispronounced and misspelled, which leads me to believe that he did go back to the MP station on post and run my plate to get my information because my CSM got a phone call from the MP the next day to let him know about "my behavior".  I work on a fairly large post.


Are MPs allowed to do this?  As far as I'm concerned, this was a Soldier to Soldier issue and there was no law enforcement application to give him a reason to use his position as an MP to access my personal information through that system.  He just got pissed off at me because I walked away from him and made it a personal vendetta to get back at me.  Can anyone give me advice on whether or not he has overstepped the bounds?


 The way I see it,if he was driving his own car,he was probably either no longer on duty or he was on the way to duty.Either way he has no authority just because he had on his duty uniform.I was 20 years with the MP´s.We did not drive our personal autos on duty,either a jeep or military sedan which was marked as an MP vehicle.


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


-145 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted about 6 years ago

 

Initailly he used his "General Authority" to make the correction.  To which you complied with the correction and recognized your mistake. All the other actions by him after the correction were clearly outside the scope of his duty (on or off duty) and outside his jurisdiction. The guy was just being an ass it seems.


Take it up with your Chain of Command and NCO Support Channel. Let them be the fit of your rage.


The guy not only embarrassed himself but he embarrassed the MP Regiment.