Group Forums >> K9 Police >> New to K9

+3

New to K9

1,302 Views
23 Replies Flag as inappropriate
Angel_max50

24 posts

back to top

Posted almost 6 years ago

 

I am fresh out of the military as an MP, and have just graduated the academy.  I know it will be a few years before even being considered for a K9 but that is my goal.  What are pros and cons to having the dog, besides the obvious?  How much liability do K9 officers have personally if their partner makes a bad bite? (will the department stand with you durring the law suit?)  Is there any advantage to getting a dog and training them your self from the ground up, as opposed to purchacing an already trained K9?  How much time off duty do you take weekly to train and does the dept pay you for any of that?  Any info will be greatly appreciated. 

Tomhubby_max50

148 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

my question is .........what is the best type of dog to use in the K-9 area of police work


be safe always no matter what line of work your in.......tom

Th_germanshepard_max50

1941 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

dmatthews says ...



I am fresh out of the military as an MP, and have just graduated the academy.  I know it will be a few years before even being considered for a K9 but that is my goal.  What are pros and cons to having the dog, besides the obvious?  How much liability do K9 officers have personally if their partner makes a bad bite? (will the department stand with you durring the law suit?)  Is there any advantage to getting a dog and training them your self from the ground up, as opposed to purchacing an already trained K9?  How much time off duty do you take weekly to train and does the dept pay you for any of that?  Any info will be greatly appreciated. 


 


 


With our department, you would have to be a minimum of 3 years off probation before being eligible for any special assignment, which includes canine. The pro/cons depends on what you want to do with your career. I can't think of anything I'd rather do than K9 but not everyone feels that way. It's like having a perpetual 2 year old that you are responsible for, every day, whether RDO, sick, annual leave etc. If you are properly trained, and the dog is used according to "industry standards" which should be in written policy, the liability belongs to the department. Using a patrol dog it's not a matter of "if" you'll be sued, it's a matter of when. If there is an advantage over a pretrained or a dog you train yourself would depend entirely on how good you are at training dogs. There is a time saving factor that must be considered which is a positive. However you get a dog that is trained the way someone else wants it, which is a negative. I don't buy pretrained dogs for our program. I can train them the way I want them trained.  We do have a dedicated dog training staff though, so that makes it easier. The standard recommended by the major certification groups such as USPCA or NAPWDA is 16 hours of training per month. That's duty time though not off duty. Training, according to FLSA is commpensable time. If you take care of the dog at home, that, according to FLSA is also compensable time. Our department does not allow privately owned dogs. All the dogs in our program belong to the state. 



Beyond fatigue lies compensatory hypertrophy

Th_germanshepard_max50

1941 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

tommybear3 says ...



my question is .........what is the best type of dog to use in the K-9 area of police work


 


That's like asking which is better a Ford or a Chevy. You'll have those that swear by the Mal, those that swear nothing better than a GSD and of course those that say; if it ain't Dutch, it ain't much. The trainers answer to that question is: selection is based on specific behaviors needed for a particular job.


 


DFrost



Beyond fatigue lies compensatory hypertrophy

Angel_max50

24 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 


Thank you for the information.  That is very helpfull. 


 


With our department, you would have to be a minimum of 3 years off probation before being eligible for any special assignment, which includes canine. The pro/cons depends on what you want to do with your career. I can't think of anything I'd rather do than K9 but not everyone feels that way. It's like having a perpetual 2 year old that you are responsible for, every day, whether RDO, sick, annual leave etc. If you are properly trained, and the dog is used according to "industry standards" which should be in written policy, the liability belongs to the department. Using a patrol dog it's not a matter of "if" you'll be sued, it's a matter of when. If there is an advantage over a pretrained or a dog you train yourself would depend entirely on how good you are at training dogs. There is a time saving factor that must be considered which is a positive. However you get a dog that is trained the way someone else wants it, which is a negative. I don't buy pretrained dogs for our program. I can train them the way I want them trained.  We do have a dedicated dog training staff though, so that makes it easier. The standard recommended by the major certification groups such as USPCA or NAPWDA is 16 hours of training per month. That's duty time though not off duty. Training, according to FLSA is commpensable time. If you take care of the dog at home, that, according to FLSA is also compensable time. Our department does not allow privately owned dogs. All the dogs in our program belong to the state. 


Rottweiler_max50

2 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

ok so im considering joining the police force....17 yr of age btw....and all i truly want to do is K9 work...and already figured it out that need 3 yrs of work in order to apply for K9 work or any other special such as SWAT....anyway


i was wondering do the police let you choose what dog you would like to work with?? and if so iv heard that a rotweiler is a viable choice...so tell me as soon as u can...i think im going to love working up to that moment

Rottweiler_max50

2 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

sory i didnt add this earlyer but what type of officer do you need to be to go into K9?


i mean like a state trooper...a patrol officer...a local...or?

Th_germanshepard_max50

1941 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

I don't let rookie handlers chose their own dog. If a handler works his first dog until it's retired and remains in canine, then I let the handler has some say in his next dog. Rotties aren't always a good choice for police work for a number of reasons, among those are stamina, overheating issues and frankly it's hard to find good Rotts. This doesn't even broach the negative perception that Rotts have. That doesn't mean there aren't any out there, in fact I have one in my program. A single purpose drug dog.


Your biggest problem is, you aren't 21. I'm not aware of any law enforcement agencies in the U. S. that have sworn officers working the streets that are under 21. All different types of law enforcement agencies use trained dogs. Those include Sheriff Departments, Police, State Police and Highway Patrols. The federal government also uses a lot of dogs including Border Patrol, ATF, TSA, Secret Service, Customs, Department of Agriculture. As you can see you have many choices.


Beyond fatigue lies compensatory hypertrophy

163171_1797932274432_1423510215_31990825_140712_n_max50

74 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

I think that ,what most people dont realize is that once you go into a K-9 division, its an eight to ten year commitment. You cant just say half way through "Its not for me". You get a partner who is either green or fully trained. If he's green then its most likly a 10 year commitment, and a daily training exercise from basic obiediance all the way to full on patrol. You have yearly re-certs, weekly unit training, and daily workouts. Not to mention the extra paperwork that other officers dont do. Like training logs, tracking sheets, and use of force eackh time your partner bites. K-9 is a very big deal. I have found that alot of young officers want to be part of it until they actually see what actually goes into the unit and team. When ever I am told by younger officers that they want to go into K-9, I tell them that they should do a ride-a-long, go out with a unit for a training session. Take some decoy bites, then decide if its for you.


Just my openion


 

Reno_max50

16 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Ride along is a great idea.  Even then I don't think you can fully get the time and effort that goes into making your team.  I have a year under my belt that was very stressful. Don't get me wrong I love every minute of it.  I think it takes a special person to be an officer in general.  K9 is a big time committment from scooping poop on up.

-173 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Mals are the only way to go, to many probs with the GS. To much bad breeding its like rolling the dice when you buy one. We seem to have better luck with the imports thought. Mals are better breed all the way around, better drive, better hips etc.

Tay_max50

29 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

I have to whole heartedly agree with the above posts about K-9 Handlers having time consuming commitments.  I have to say from a personal perspective though that the commitment is well worth it to see the end result.  I have seen too many handlers that end up getting lazy and then their dogs begin to get lazy.  If you stay with your dog and do your required tasks (very time consuming) your dog will show you tons of love and will be a lot more willing to work for you when the time comes.  On the questions about what is the best dog to use.  I agree with supercopone on the hip problems comment, but I have to say some of our best dogs were German Shepherds.  I had an awesome German Shepherd and then went to a Belgium Mal.  Well the German Shepherd was amazing at obedience and patorl.  The Belgium Mal was very good at detection.  Even though the Mals tend to hit harder the German Shepherds tend to be a lot smarter.  I just got a Dutch Shepherd as my working dog and I have to say that he is probably so far my best dog out of all the breeds.  I will not say he is the best breed because honestly it just depends on the dog not the breed.  And the trainer/handler.  All dogs have the potential if your willing to put in the effort.

Photo_user_blank_big

2 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

I've recently put my name in to be considered for our new K9 program that the city is just starting.  I'm trying to research as much as I can about every aspect of this.  I've read this forum and found it very helpful, but is there any other websites, or other resources that are available that you can think of to help me?  Things such as the pros and cons of each type of dog, what happens if the dog becomes a nuisance such as a barker?  If a bite dog is worth the training and money.  In the three years I've been with my department (19 fulltime), we haven't had many people run from us and if they did, they have either been caught or later caught.  Not to mention, the chances of a handler and a dog being Johnny on the spot to actually have the dog engage in the pursuit.  I think the tracking comes in more to play on this one. 


-never give up!
-the only thing necessry for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

163171_1797932274432_1423510215_31990825_140712_n_max50

74 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Patrick.....check out the following sites (it may or amy not be helpful).


www.napwda.com (North American Police Working Dog Association)


www.nndda.com (National Narcotic Dection Dog Association)


www.ipwda.org (International Police Working Dog Association)


That shoud get you started

Jpd_new_max50

1893 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Check this out from Terry Fleck's K9 Legal Update page:


http://www.k9fleck.org/resourcelink.htm


This has all the links to pretty much everything.  After that, check out the home page.  Lots of good info.


"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell

“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”
― Sun Tzu

PL Mentoring Team Member

163171_1797932274432_1423510215_31990825_140712_n_max50

74 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

About the best dog...I think if you ask 10 people you'll get 10 different answers. I have always worked a GSD (German Shepherd Dog). So I am partical to GSDs, but our k-9 unit has 4 Mals and a Belgan Tervorn (sp?). All of which are very very good dogs. I think you weigh the pos. and negs. and add in your own tast. Though most departments dont give you much of a choice. I know there are some faults with GSDs that some people wouldnt want to risk, but if you buy from a reputable working dog breeder, and that breeder has had some strong past results, then I think you'll be ok. I purchased my first partner myself and flew to Germany to pick him. I bought from a reputable breeder who has had champion schutzhund blood lines and all of the health and x-ray certs.


I have heard some say that the Mals dont need as much motivation as a GSD. But I have not had that expierence both my late partner and my new one have been wide open. I think that has to do with the training and blood ines. I have heard that Mals "hit" harder than GSDs. I dont think thats true as much as they "hit" different. A Mal will "hit" with his whole body while a GSD will try to use his size. The hardest "hitting" dog I have ever seen is the Tervon (sp?). He is a Mal with attitude.


I think if some one is new to K-9 or they are buying their first dog, they look at all of the factors and make the best decision for themselves.


There are no bad dogs, just bad handlers

Jpd_new_max50

1893 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

patrickwestfall says ...



I've recently put my name in to be considered for our new K9 program that the city is just starting.  I'm trying to research as much as I can about every aspect of this.  I've read this forum and found it very helpful, but is there any other websites, or other resources that are available that you can think of to help me?  Things such as the pros and cons of each type of dog, what happens if the dog becomes a nuisance such as a barker?  If a bite dog is worth the training and money.  In the three years I've been with my department (19 fulltime), we haven't had many people run from us and if they did, they have either been caught or later caught.  Not to mention, the chances of a handler and a dog being Johnny on the spot to actually have the dog engage in the pursuit.  I think the tracking comes in more to play on this one. 



You guys never had a traffic stop on a suspected drug dealer?  or had a kicked in door on a burglar alarm with a building that had to be searched?  or had to do an area search in a field, at night, for a suspect or dropped gun? or had to search a residence for drugs? All police departments have a need for a K9 unit no matter what the size or make-up of a Town/County/State. Opportunities to utilize a K9 during a shift can only be made by a handler.  There are always assists to other agencies.


Be prepared for the lengthy commitment and responsibility.  You see a fair share of K9s being left in squads unattended and dying.  Physical fitness is also a key to being a productive handler.  Family and housing considerations are also come into play.  Hopefully you are up to the task.  Don't just take this job to boost your resume, you'll regret it.  Good luck and stay safe.  


"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell

“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”
― Sun Tzu

PL Mentoring Team Member

Dsc02518_max600_1__max50

7 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

tommybear3 says ...



my question is .........what is the best type of dog to use in the K-9 area of police work



Malinois !!!

Photo_user_blank_big

2 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

This question is to those experinced handlers.  What are the pros & cons of a dual-purpose K9, and the pros & cons of a single purpose dog.  Both of which will be used for drug and tracking.


-never give up!
-the only thing necessry for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Th_germanshepard_max50

1941 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Pro; more bang for the buck. You've got a dog that will track, search building, find evidence and do apprehension work in addition to finding drugs or explosives, whichever he is trained in.


Con; the dog usually costs more, it's more difficult to select a good potential dog that will do all of it, there is more training time involved both initially and regular inservice training.


 


To determine which is right for your department you would need to look at operational requirements. Will the dog be used in all function etc.


 


Beyond fatigue lies compensatory hypertrophy

Image_max50

88 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Hey guys I have just been assigned to K-9. I go to Alderhorst in November but they have me working with the dog in the mean time trying to establish a bond. I'm noticing some bad habits and obediance issues no doubt he got from his last handler... hence the reason that officer is not his handler anymore. Any advice on what I can do to get him back in line?


I shall walk through this world but once;
Therefore any good I can do let me do it now,
Let me not defer or neglect it,
For I shall not pass this way again...

Th_germanshepard_max50

1941 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

If you have no experience with being a dog handler, my advice is wait until you get to school and let them show what is needed. When I assign a dog to a new handler, whether the dog has had training or not, I tell them; I don't want you to do anything but get to be his buddy.


 


 


Beyond fatigue lies compensatory hypertrophy

Angel_max50

24 posts

back to top
Rate

Rate This | Posted almost 6 years ago

 

Psycho_Illness says ...



ok so im considering joining the police force....17 yr of age btw....and all i truly want to do is K9 work...and already figured it out that need 3 yrs of work in order to apply for K9 work or any other special such as SWAT....anyway


i was wondering do the police let you choose what dog you would like to work with?? and if so iv heard that a rotweiler is a viable choice...so tell me as soon as u can...i think im going to love working up to that moment



Most agencies will have a K9 program.  Since you are only 17 years old I would seriously considere joining a Police Cadet/Explorer program.  This will give you a first hand look at what being a cop is all about.  Try looking at your local agency.  Talk to a few cops and request to go on ride alongs.