Ok here goes pick one or the other...

1. Bring our military home.

2. Let them finish what was started.

2

#`1

The war in Iraq will NEVER be over. it's another Vietnam, but longer.

Those who answered with #2, have any of you been to Iraq / Afghanistan?

I have... several times.

WCP3rd: I see that you were in Iraq and AF Security Forces. Good to go!! What Operations were you in?

<--- USMC Security Forces. But I was with F.A.S.T. COMPANY 1st F.A.S.T. Company to be exact!! The Elite of SF's!!!

So since you have done a tour in the Sandbox of Hell, why do you think we should stay?

S/F

Justin

#2 Stay in the fight...

I wish that some didn't have to die but I know its for the greater good...

JustinUSMC says ...

nikkochey says ...

taz1964 says ...

Justin, I say carry on so that my Brothers and Sisters didn`t die for no good reason.

I have been to Iraq and Afghanistan, and I still hold my beliefs. It`s just a shame the Politicians didn`t listen to Stormin in 90/91.

Stay safe 

=======================================

OOH RAH TAZ!!!!!!

Think about it realistically and this fiasco has been going on now for 17 1/2 years. Yes if the politicians had let us go into Bagdad in 91 I truly feel that it would have been over then.

The War in Iraq is NOT about Terrorism. It's about OIL and OIL Only!

Now the "war" in Afghanistan is something totally different.

 

I agree with you, Iraq is about oil. But I also think it has a lot to do with Terrorism in the longterm. Can you imagine a Western World with oil shortage? Depleted Military capabilities through the inability to deploy on foriegn soils. A Western World unable to react to attacks from cash and oil rich, Muslim run countries. All because they have the monopoly on oil, its prices and distribution.

Also, with Iran pushing for nuclear capabilities and testing the Worlds leaders, I think it wise to have a Military strength available for rapid response should it be needed. The whole region is a ticking bomb, imo.

Afghanistan...........Now this maybe the war that politicians underestimated. This country fought the Russians for years and years. They are battle hardened, well trained soldiers. Originally taught by British and American SF`s, these are the hard nuts to crack. As you will appreciate Justin, from your past experience, a much harsher landscape to combat.

JustinUSMC says ...

#`1

 

The war in Iraq will NEVER be over. it's another Vietnam, but longer.

Those who answered with #2, have any of you been to Iraq / Afghanistan?

I have... several times.

WCP3rd: I see that you were in Iraq and AF Security Forces. Good to go!! What Operations were you in?

<--- USMC Security Forces. But I was with F.A.S.T. COMPANY 1st F.A.S.T. Company to be exact!! The Elite of SF's!!!

So since you have done a tour in the Sandbox of Hell, why do you think we should stay?

S/F

Justin

Yes, I've done some time overseas in the GWOT.

I just don't agree with you. 

taz1964 says ...

Snip...

Afghanistan...........Now this maybe the war that politicians underestimated. This country fought the Russians for years and years. They are battle hardened, well trained soldiers. Originally taught by British and American SF`s, these are the hard nuts to crack. As you will appreciate Justin, from your past experience, a much harsher landscape to combat.

Meh, the only "battle hardened" bad guys in AFG are the ones with rigor mortis.  The real bad asses are the ones working for us.  The guys who fought the Soviets and ended up with the Taliban are gone.  Those who were with the Northern Alliance after fighting the Soviets are our boys now.

Aside from a handful of foreign trained fighters and technical "experts", the Taliban/ACM/AQAM guys are a bunch of booger-eating morons.  That's the pool you have to draw from in that part of the world.  The fighters are mostly foreign, recruited and then trained in Pakistan and to a lesser degree in Iran.  They come in short cycles and receive material and finanial support outside of Afghanistan in places we refuse to visit or acknowledge to any significant degree. 

The AFG problem is with culture, or lack thereof, and politics on every level.  The pouplation of much of the country is unleadable in conventional terms.  Communication, commerce, education, societal infrastructure, etc. are non-existant in the majority of the country.  The sovereign government under Karzai is thoroughly corupt and equally incompetent, yet we officially handed them the reigns right out of the gate.  The insurgent movement is infused into the population and no consistent alternative is offered in terms of support or protection.

Tribal affiliations create fracture points even within the ANA, Karzai sucks former Taliban into government through a half-dozen reconciliation programs, a weak-willed ISAF (NATO) running the show all but refuses to do business, U.S. policy is indescribably risk-averse, short sighted and unproductive; AFG government and western military presence is centralized and our operations piecemeal while insurgent presence is consistent throughout the unfriendly areas, poppy eradication is frowned upon by all parties (don't mess with anyone's money), corruption is the standard business model, etc., etc.

I had a young Afghani entrepreneur tell me that the U.S. can never leave Afghanistan, explaining that it would take a couple generations to breed some western culture into the population centers, establishing a base from which to grow the nation out of ignorance and corruption.  I agree completely, but I do not believe for a second that we will be doing anything of the sort in that country.  Afghanistan is out of control and we will likely never completely address that issue, preferring band-aid solutions to long-term strategies for change.

Tough question to answer.  I believe we do need to finish what we started. We need the Iraqis to stand up for themselves and reinforce in Afganistan, because that's where it all started.  I served during Vietnam and my son was in Iraq.  Like in all wars if they would just take the damned politics out of it and let the Military do what they are trained to do, I believe we would see some real progress.

The current war in Iraq was ill advised from the outset, and those who councilled for more troops from day one were not listened to, nor was the insurgency/cival war given proper attention until way too late.

To me there is no yes or no answer, but more like if no.

My 2 cents

Doc

#2   Once they are strong they can repay us for all the hard work and get us out of our economic predicament.

I was there in 2003, Fallujah, 82nd Airborne Infantry! We got to finish the job and keep the fight there!

PSDTeamLeader says ...

You all should see how the Iraqi Soldiers and Iraqi Police SWAT units are looking.

They are wearing knee pads, oakleys, camelbaks, using carbiners/d-rings, drop leg holsters.......its amazing how Americanized the Iraqi Army infantry and SOF units and the police SWAT units are becomming

 

Im here now training these tools.  They are wearing their elbow pads on their knees, have scopes on their ak's that are not sighted in and so on.  They are just gear queers and thats all they care about.  The level of corruption here is amazing.  I recall a case recently where an Iraqi Army soldier shot an Iraqi policeman as he was riding his motorcycle because he would not give it to the soldier.  There is nothing that we can do here that will make a difference for their future.  Every single one that i have talked to liked it better when sadham was in charge oddly enough.  There was less crime,poverty,and death.  I used to be for the war when i was at home but now that im here i see how it really is.  I am proud of the troops and what they do dont get my wrong.  I am extremely patriotic and had thoughts such as I can make a difference but its not going to happen.  I say bring em home. 

 

catm2005 says ...

The Iraqi Army and National Police that i've met didnt impress me at all. I cannot answer 1 or 2.. im torn between it all at this point.. Now back in 04 and 05 during my first tour over there.. sure i was all for it.. but now.. just not sure.

They are better than they were circa OIF II and III. We do joint patrols with some of their units, and the police unit from the Minitry of Interior are particularly impressive and adamant about doing it themselves, especially the Public Order Brigade. It looks like the Sons of Iraq (Awakending Council) will be absorbed into the IPs.