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Just wondering if it is right and legal

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2157953514681a5094beb0_max50

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Posted about 7 years ago

 

I work in a bar in Phoenix. Not just any bar one of the more popular bars in the Phoenix area that is known for getting people completely stupid drunk. I have seen on many occasions a motorcycle cop perched at a quikie-mart across the street. I saw him nail a guy I knew to have been drinking. He left the pub in a heated argument with his girl, blew out of the parking lot in his red pickup and smoked his wheels down the street. Stupid.

One night, around 12 midnight, I was leaving after a long night in the kitchen. I pull out of the parking lot and check my rear view mirror to see the same bike that nailed the truck behind me. I got about two streets away from the bar when he turned his lights on. I pulled off the main street and he asked me for my license. Then asked me " Have I pulled you over before?" " No sir." I have only been pulled over a few times for "Hey check your taillight" kinda stops and never by him. "Are you sure because you look like someone I have pull over before?" "Yes sir, I am sure." The whole time I was thinking oh man, this could ruin my plans to become a LEO. " " Have you been drinking tonight?" I replied knowing he was going to ask me "No sir. I work there." I never said where I worked but he seemed to know. " The Dubliner?" " Yes sir."
He asked me to step out of the car because he insisted that I look familiar while I thought of course, I work everyday it is hard to miss me. He did a field test on me which I passed because I know better then to drink and drive. He handed me my license back and told me to slow down next time. I am not a moron. There was not enough time for me to speed. I was almost a spit away from the pub. I know he was hoping he got another DUI. I know why he did what he did, but is the method of how he is doing it right? I am not sure. Could you clear this up for me so I can know what to do in real life when I get hired as a LEO.

Cheers, Scooterchic

Mr_ree_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

?

Mirror_in_unifrm_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

All I can say is if you feel your rights have been violated then call the ACLU and file a complaint.

2157953514681a5094beb0_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

onegoodcop said:

All I can say is if you feel your rights have been violated then call the ACLU and file a complaint.

Would that affect me getting hired on with any PD in the city?

Cheers, Scooterchic

Motor_cop_comic_max160_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

If you have a legitimate complaint, that is not something that would be held against you. Reasonable suspicion is needed for a traffic stop and probable cause is needed for an arrest, any less falls short of the law.


"You can't lead from behind" Gen'l James Longstreet, CSA

Ltsh1_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

If he said you were driving too fast, you were driving too fast. Leave it at that. He was doing his job. You were let off with a warning so what's the problem? I hope you did'nt take the above ACLU comment as being serious, I beleive onegoodcop was being sarcastic. At least I hope he was!

And to answer your question "Is it right & is it legal"? Yes & Yes.

L6okybhezoe7tu8xdrl3gbk-blgopvwd0060_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

I think I can be a little unbiased when it comes to answering this question. Being a former bar owner several times over and my whole family being in law enforcement I know both sides of this coin but I also know what the law is in my state anyway. In my state, it is illegal but quite common for an officer to sit near a bar and watch the patrons as they leave. They see someone who looks like they have been drinking then pulls them a few blocks from the bar. This is where the designated driver joke came from. On both sides of the coin it is good they do it because it saves lives but also bad for business, either way, know one officer will ever admit it but it is done, if it is proven it is illegal. In your case it would be best if you just point it out to your boss and let him handle it. I mean no disrespect for any officer here. Like I said it saves lives and is a necessary evil. Keep up the good work guys!!

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

On both sides of the coin it is good they do it because it saves lives but also bad for business,

i would not have put saves lives and bad for business in the same post.

Photo_user_blank_big

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Pretext stops in front of bars are morally and ethically reprehensible. It is not at all sporting. It is the LE equivalent to hunting over a baited field. It’s much more sportsmanlike to give them a ten minute head start. Of course, you can’t TELL anybody about it…there are those pesky liability issues to deal with if you “fail to perform your duty” and someone gets killed. Federal judges are poor sportsmen after all.

Th_az_pom-1-1_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Give them a ten minute head start??? That's ten minutes for them to find their victims. No way - I say get 'em off the road as soon as possible. If you're coming out of a bar, and you are too drunk to notice the officers sitting and waiting for those who choose to drink and drive, then you should be stopped, and soon. What is morally and ethically reprehensible is the people who drink and then get behind the wheel.

Death_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Not sure what the question is. Can you clear the question up? Is it right that he stopped you near the club? He conducted a traffic stop, it doesn't matter where it is. Did he not tell you why you were stopped? After the stop, he had you perform a field sobriety test which, apparently, you performed satisfactorily, and were released. He gave you a verbal warning to "slow down", so I would guess speed was the issue. Was the stop legitimate? I don't know, I wasn't there. Will it hurt your chances of being a LEO? I can't see how. Do I know what you're complaining about? No.

Mirror_in_unifrm_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Scooterchic said:


onegoodcop said:


All I can say is if you feel your rights have been violated then call the ACLU and file a complaint.


Would that affect me getting hired on with any PD in the city?

Cheers, Scooterchic


If you file a complaint against the officer, it shouldnt have any affect on you getting a cop job. Just dont apply at that department. Or any other department in that county.

Photo_user_banned_big

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Well, well, well. This is a reoccurring thread written in adifferent form.

First of all, the UNITED STATED SUPREME COURT says that if an officer knows someone comes from a bar and SEES a violation of the law OR unsafe driving, that the officer HAS A DUTY to stop the person no matter what. Being that the safety of ALL the public demands it.

SECOND: If you do nothing wrong he has no reason to stop you and it is a possible way of beating a DUI wrap.

THIRD: DUI cops are their for a reason. You dont go the church looking for cars to pull over b/c they are drinking.

FOURTH: If a cop is watching a bar and is assigned to GP instead of DUI enforcement. All I can say is who is watching the rest of the community.

FIFTH: your first paragraph states why he pulled the one over.... Anyone would.

SIXTH: AS far as him pulling you over, that is your side and I reserved judgement until i hear his side. This is the way all real cops do. They listen to both sides before effecting action in a situation.

0930121924_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

I agree with you Sgt, I think that you explained everything that should be explained. I never watch a church for DUI's. But if a bar is known for letting drunks drive away, then thats why we are patrolling that area. We must protect everyone, even the drunk from himself. It even bothers Troopers/Cops to see a crash that a DUI dies in, even if it was a single car. We want to say him from himself as well. Thats why you see us around the areas of bars.


I love each day like its my last! Why do we are have to be so serious?

2157953514681a5094beb0_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

dayngerus said:

Not sure what the question is. Can you clear the question up? Is it right that he stopped you near the club? He conducted a traffic stop, it doesn't matter where it is. Did he not tell you why you were stopped? After the stop, he had you perform a field sobriety test which, apparently, you performed satisfactorily, and were released. He gave you a verbal warning to "slow down", so I would guess speed was the issue. Was the stop legitimate? I don't know, I wasn't there. Will it hurt your chances of being a LEO? I can't see how. Do I know what you're complaining about? No.

I was not speeding. I did not even touch 30MPH in a 40MPH There was just not enough time to. That was the issue. I do believe he was "hunting" me because he saw me leave the bar. He has a great hiding spot behind the bus stop were you can't see him until you are way pass him looking back. :-) It's really quite good.

I don't really pay much attention to him because I never have anything to worry about. I am not complaining I was WONDERING if what he does, sitting there waiting, is legal. He kinda said "slow it down next time" as an after thought while walking half way back to his bike. I can't speak for him as to what he saw but I KNOW I was not speeding. Whatever. It is done and I have yet to EVER get a traffic ticket because I do not drive like an a**hole!!! I can count the times I have been pulled over on one hand. Yeah I am that good... :-)

The owner of the pub is upset, to put it nicely, because it hurts business. He himself was pulled over and some how got away with being drunk. It seems you all have confused me more. So the law is...you can sit there and if you see someone leaving the bar you can follow them and wait till they do something stupid but you can't just pull over someone to see if maybe they might be drunk without a reason. Right?

Either way I am not going to do anything except ask the above question. He (the motor officer)has saved many lives and I respect that. I just hope he is not getting so caught up in catching drunks that he has to bend the law to make it work. And I for the future.

Cheers, Scooterchic

Eagle_edited_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Well, I cannot speak for AZ, but here in NM they have a great law for DUI, I will not recite it word for word cause I don't feel like getting out the book and looking it up right now, but basiclly it says if a bar allows a person that they know is drunk to drive away from there establishment and that person causes a crash in which people are hurt or killed then the bar is responcible and can be held liable in civil court. Also the server can be charged for serving a person they knew had to much to drink. We just recently had a bar annouce they where closeing just for this reason, they lost a civil case in which a man was paralized and filed suet, he later died before settlement but family pursued it and won. The own decided to close.

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Also in another thread this was discussed, if the officer sees a drunk person leaving a bar and he gets into a vehicle and drives, and causes a crash with injuries, the officer COULD if it was ever discovered be liable for letting him drive in the first place. He should have stopped him before he started driving. It is called public intoxication.

100_1981_3__max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Sitting outside a bar and waiting for drunk patrons to leave is not illegal, or at least in Texas it isn't. You have to develop probable cause for the stop, or your whole case can be thrown out. What the officer is doing is "accident prevention". There is someone killed in this country every 15 minutes because of an alcohol related accident. DWI is one of my biggest pet peeves!!!! My senior year in high school I lost 12 friends throughout the year because of alcohol related accidents. Four were killed in the same accident, hit by a drunk driver, and the four were all brothers and sisters. I have ZERO TOLERANCE when it come to DWI. We did the 'Shattered Dreams" program at the local high school this past year, and so far (knocking on wood) this is the first year Giddings hasn't lost a youth to an alcohol related accident. Sgt & Edrick gave you some great info.


"It would be better for one to have a stone tied around their neck and thrown into the sea, than to cause a child to stumble."

"Well-behaved women rarely make history"

100_1981_3__max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

This officer is trying to keep the roads safe for all the sober drivers, including you Scooterchic. I would be thankful that he is out there trying to bust drunk drivers instead of avoiding them beacause of the HUGE amount of paperwork involved with a DWI arrest.


"It would be better for one to have a stone tied around their neck and thrown into the sea, than to cause a child to stumble."

"Well-behaved women rarely make history"

2157953514681a5094beb0_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

LCarvin said:

This officer is trying to keep the roads safe for all the sober drivers, including you Scooterchic. I would be thankful that he is out there trying to bust drunk drivers instead of avoiding them beacause of the HUGE amount of paperwork involved with a DWI arrest.

I never said I was not thankful. I was merely asking what the law is and explaining my story so you would know why the question came up. We have the same law regarding alcohol consuming and the bar that is serving them. They pounded it into our heads is culinary school and back in the day I could recite it word for word. Again I respect the him and what he does. Why else would I want to become one myself. I am praying they start a scooter division in Tempe.....

100_1981_3__max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Scooterchic said:


LCarvin said:


This officer is trying to keep the roads safe for all the sober drivers, including you Scooterchic. I would be thankful that he is out there trying to bust drunk drivers instead of avoiding them beacause of the HUGE amount of paperwork involved with a DWI arrest.


I never said I was not thankful. I was merely asking what the law is and explaining my story so you would know why the question came up. We have the same law regarding alcohol consuming and the bar that is serving them. They pounded it into our heads is culinary school and back in the day I could recite it word for word. Again I respect the him and what he does. Why else would I want to become one myself. I am praying they start a scooter division in Tempe.....


Send pics of the scooter division (if they get it)....would love to see that!


"It would be better for one to have a stone tied around their neck and thrown into the sea, than to cause a child to stumble."

"Well-behaved women rarely make history"

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Scooterchic said:


dayngerus said:


Not sure what the question is. Can you clear the question up? Is it right that he stopped you near the club? He conducted a traffic stop, it doesn't matter where it is. Did he not tell you why you were stopped? After the stop, he had you perform a field sobriety test which, apparently, you performed satisfactorily, and were released. He gave you a verbal warning to "slow down", so I would guess speed was the issue. Was the stop legitimate? I don't know, I wasn't there. Will it hurt your chances of being a LEO? I can't see how. Do I know what you're complaining about? No.


I was not speeding. I did not even touch 30MPH in a 40MPH There was just not enough time to. That was the issue. I do believe he was "hunting" me because he saw me leave the bar. He has a great hiding spot behind the bus stop were you can't see him until you are way pass him looking back. :-) It's really quite good.

I don't really pay much attention to him because I never have anything to worry about. I am not complaining I was WONDERING if what he does, sitting there waiting, is legal. He kinda said "slow it down next time" as an after thought while walking half way back to his bike. I can't speak for him as to what he saw but I KNOW I was not speeding. Whatever. It is done and I have yet to EVER get a traffic ticket because I do not drive like an a**hole!!! I can count the times I have been pulled over on one hand. Yeah I am that good... :-)

The owner of the pub is upset, to put it nicely, because it hurts business. He himself was pulled over and some how got away with being drunk. It seems you all have confused me more. So the law is...you can sit there and if you see someone leaving the bar you can follow them and wait till they do something stupid but you can't just pull over someone to see if maybe they might be drunk without a reason. Right?

Either way I am not going to do anything except ask the above question. He (the motor officer)has saved many lives and I respect that. I just hope he is not getting so caught up in catching drunks that he has to bend the law to make it work. And I for the future.

Cheers, Scooterchic


Did you not see what I said about the UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT!!!

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Did you not see what I said about the UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT!!! That should answer your question in this post

1979_max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

It only hurt business if the business allows drunks to drive away drunk. Yes it is legal. I never sat outside a bar watching to see if a drunk got in a car so I could arrest him. I would have stopped him BEFORE he got into the vehicle and tell him not to operate it or else. I did however sit in the areas that have bars watching traffic and when I saw one that I thought needed checking then I would stop him for probably cause. NOBODY should be unhappy we stop and arrest drunk drivers, including drunk drivers. We save many lives when we do this. If you aren't smart enough to not drink and drive, we are smart enough to stop you.

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

ok. You didn't do anything wrong and he stopped you. But you arent going to do anything about it. So what's your point? Can he sit there and stop people leaving a bar? Yes and it's obvious. You got a beef about the "supposedly illegal" stop he made on you, take it up with his department, or your attorney. You asked an honest question, let me give you my first totally honest answer.

I AM SICK OF HEARING ABOUT WHAT COP DID WHAT TO WHOM!!!! You want to whine to us about YOUR version of the events for what? Our sympathy? Understanding? Compassion? Wrong thread! Take up your beef with the proper authorities. I have a feeling that if you HAD a leg to stand on, you wouldn't be having this post. DetSgtDarryl and many others answered your question succinctly and completely. My advice: 1) Get over it or do something about it. 2) Be completely honest with the facts. 3) cops outside of bars are only bad for business when it's ILLEGAL business and 4) Stop talking just to hear yourself talk.

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

Exiting a bar is not probable cause to stop a motorist. I have no problem with what he is doing honestly he is doing what he can to keep drunks off the road and keep other motorist safe. Now if a bar over serves a patron the bar CAN be held liable for over serving the patron. But I hope the officer is doing it all correctly and making sure he has PC.


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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

fmwarmac said:

I think I can be a little unbiased when it comes to answering this question. Being a former bar owner several times over and my whole family being in law enforcement I know both sides of this coin but I also know what the law is in my state anyway. In my state, it is illegal but quite common for an officer to sit near a bar and watch the patrons as they leave. They see someone who looks like they have been drinking then pulls them a few blocks from the bar. This is where the designated driver joke came from. On both sides of the coin it is good they do it because it saves lives but also bad for business, either way, know one officer will ever admit it but it is done, if it is proven it is illegal. In your case it would be best if you just point it out to your boss and let him handle it. I mean no disrespect for any officer here. Like I said it saves lives and is a necessary evil. Keep up the good work guys!!

That is hilarious that it is illegal. Pretty soon cops won't be allowed in the banks because it is bad for the people that may want to rob it. WHATEVER!!!!

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

docmckee said:

Pretext stops in front of bars are morally and ethically reprehensible. It is not at all sporting. It is the LE equivalent to hunting over a baited field. It’s much more sportsmanlike to give them a ten minute head start. Of course, you can’t TELL anybody about it…there are those pesky liability issues to deal with if you “fail to perform your duty” and someone gets killed. Federal judges are poor sportsmen after all.

As a civilian and someone who feels safe knowing that police officer's are on the street protecting me from some idiot who is drunk and gets behind the wheel, I feel this "10 minute" head start is ridiculous!!! So this person, who is breaking the law should be allowed 10 minutes of drive time to maybe kill someone ? Give me a break.

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

dayngerus said:

ok. You didn't do anything wrong and he stopped you. But you arent going to do anything about it. So what's your point? Can he sit there and stop people leaving a bar? Yes and it's obvious. You got a beef about the "supposedly illegal" stop he made on you, take it up with his department, or your attorney. You asked an honest question, let me give you my first totally honest answer.

I AM SICK OF HEARING ABOUT WHAT COP DID WHAT TO WHOM!!!! You want to whine to us about YOUR version of the events for what? Our sympathy? Understanding? Compassion? Wrong thread! Take up your beef with the proper authorities. I have a feeling that if you HAD a leg to stand on, you wouldn't be having this post. DetSgtDarryl and many others answered your question succinctly and completely. My advice: 1) Get over it or do something about it. 2) Be completely honest with the facts. 3) cops outside of bars are only bad for business when it's ILLEGAL business and 4) Stop talking just to hear yourself talk.

Whoa whoa whoa.... Calm down. I gave you my story so you could see WHY I was asked the QUESTION if it is legal to sit there. I now know that it is legal. Now, is it right? That seems to be the debate this thread has turned into. Even though I have a leg to stand on and I am sure he made a last minute save by adding the speeding claim, I am not going to do anything. OK? He just needs to be careful because a LOT of people are keeping a close eye on him. I think you need some hot tea and bubble bath. Shezz.

I am taking your advice, 1) I am letting it go, he knows me now and knows I am not a problem. Hell, I have not seen him is awhile 2) I am honest with the facts. I have no reason to lie. You lie when you are trying to get something or cover something up. 3) Selling booze has not been illegal since 1933. Even though the law holds the bar liable if a drunk kills someone, people especially the hardcore drinkers I see day to day, can hide it. Don't pretend they can't. I have seen a man drink for my entire shift and not miss a beat. Talked, moved and acted as if he was sober. 4) I am typing.

Oh yeah I HATE WHEN PEOPLE TELL ME HOW TO COOK FOOD!!! THEY DON'T KNOW JACK WHEN IT COMES TO HOW A STEAK SHOULD BE COOKED!!!. That is how I view your little rant.

Cheers, Scooterchic

3734983337_1__max50

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Rate This | Posted about 7 years ago

 

just got out of my bubble bath, and it didnt work i still think that makeing a pc stop on someone that left a bar is not only legal but RIGHT thing to do, now i prefer my steak rare so get to cooking.

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